WingedWheel91

Losing Abdelkader isn't going to help - but I'm not buying this size mismatch either. TB has exactly 2 forwards who weigh in at over 200 LBS. Brian Boyle who's the least physical 6'7 player in the word, and Brendan Morrow who is 36.

Is Abdelkader officially out?

I felt like this thread needed to happen - I usually don't do this, but seriously guys... Almost every post I have read (from our fans) has the Red Wings out in 4-6 games. It's not going to be an easy series, but what am I reading? Our biggest disadvantage is in net... and the other team has Ben Bishop starting who has NEVER played in a playoff game? Since 2008 this guy was a backup goalie before starting his first season last year, since then he's had 2 good seasons, or 1 fewer than Jimmy Howard has had and Jimmy's best seasons were a lot better than Ben's. But who cares because..that's right! Petr Mrazek is starting in net for us - now were doomed! Wait a minute, lets check his resume... 2012 - IIHF WJHC - Bronze Medalist - Named Best Goalkeeper in the tournament. 2013 - AHL - All Star, Calder Cup Champion. 2014 - AHL - All Star, 2nd in GAA, 3rd in SV% - Played his first games in the NHL. 2015 - Named playoff starter for the Detroit Red Wings See a trend starting here... Next, Well if the goaltending isn't as lopsided as advertised, were still doomed because in 2014-2015 the Tampa Bay Lightning averaged the 2nd highest 5 on 5 goal differential and Shots For/Against (for you analytic fans), and because playoff hockey is played much more at even strength, we have to be in big trouble! Like I said, it wont be easy, but playoff hockey is much different as we have seen our own teams built exactly like this lose to LA, Anaheim, Edmonton, and Calgary in early rounds as prohibitive favourites. People lose sight of the fact that we have 2 of the worlds best defensive (and offensive) forwards playing against them... As long as we win those matchups, we can win the 5 on 5 puck possession game as well. Obviously, this mean special teams are imperative - but didn't our PP finish 2nd in % and 1st in goals scored this season? Finally, no explanation required. KRONWALL - ERICSSON DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO QUINCEY - ZIDLICKY HEDMAN - STRALMAN CARLE - COBURN (injured) SUSTR (inured) - NESTEROV Lets go boys.

(Not sure how to directly reply or quote) Roboturner: This isn't a casino, this is a fan boosting site called lets go wings. I just don't see the point in taking time out of your day to predict negative outcomes against your team, on your teams fan website. It's like wearing a Tampa Bay jersey this Thursday because probability suggests they are more likely to win?

This summer: Trade (all of the rumoured parts) Jurco, Smith, Weiss, 2016 1st and a 2017 Conditional 3rd for Phanuef (-1.5 Mill) and Kessel (-1.0 Mill) Let Cleary walk, Let Monster walk. Try and trade Quincey knowing that his contract expires at the end of next season and Oulette can slide right in to his spot. Plan the parade ABDELKADER - ZETTERBERG - KESSEL TATAR - DATSYUK - HELM NYQUIST - SHEAHAN - PULKINNEN MILLER - ANDERSSON - GLENDENNING FRANZEN (LTIR?) KRONWALL - ERICSSON PHANEUF - DEKEYSER QUINCEY - MARCHENKO OULETTE HOWARD MRAZEK

Nice GDT - But I think you (accidentally) granted Jonathon Bernier's biggest wish...

I just had a good laugh at all of the experts on here who contributed to the "Fire Ken Holland" thread, but are now reluctant to part with any of our "overripe" prospects because all of the sudden "they like our team" too. And to everyone who understood that the current NHL landscape doesn't allow for any individual team to compete for the Stanley cup every year, please pat yourself on the back for defending him like I did. As for a trade to "get our offense going" - We currently rank 6th in the NHL in GPG and 8th in PP% (all after scoring only 4 goals in 3 games in 4 nights). I think the question is "should we make a trade for a new goaltender who can make a save in a shootout?"... kidding.

Who cares about Calle Jarnkrok? I'd Rather have Dylan Larkin

I'm very close to one of the players on this team (take it for what its worth) and I can tell you that a lot of free agents get hung up on the city rather than the organization. Based on the roster and the tradition, good free agents will listen and give us a meeting, but when it comes down to picking the right team (as long as they have similar offers) players are picking better places to live instead of to play.

I specifically don't quote or directly reply to responses because I am not interested in having a one on one conversation over a forum, with someone I don't know. Based on the number of posts some people have, I am sure it exists but I'm really on this site to read and share (my) opinions, like them or not. Trades are and always will be about risk vs. reward and hindsight is always 20/20. When we traded for Legwand and put him on a line with Franzen and Nyquist - they simply dominated. They put us in a position to win on a consistent basis, and we made the playoffs because of it. During that time, there were some games and I remember the NJ one specifically where we had pencilled Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Abby / Franzen - Legwand - Nyquist to be a great top 6 when D and Z returned to the lineup. Very few people complained about the trade at the time, but when they did come back - something happened to both Legwand and Nyquist. The pace was never assumed to continue, but Legwand barely cracked the roster during the playoffs. You can evaluate the trade: If Jarnkrok turns into an all-star, we lose. If he turns into a mediocre player, who cares. If he struggles to be an NHL regular based on his size/skills, we win because we kept a great streak alive and in that time, found out who Gustav Nyquist was.

It requires common sense and not "evidence". If he were a Red Wing today, he would not make this team - when he becomes an RFA in July, he does not have to resign with the team and he can go back to play in Europe (which was reported at the time of the trade). No he has not published a book about his intentions if he wasn't traded, but I'm sure the reports were not just made up.

Don't really understand the comparison between Jarnkrok and the 2014 Draft Class - Calle Jarnkrok is going to be 23 years old when this season starts, but players drafted by the Red Wings today are almost a full 5 years younger than he is... Meaning they are 2-3 years away from playing. Calle Jarnkrok is ready now and wants to play now - but unfortunately he wasn't going to make the Detroit Red Wings this season, and is an RFA in July. And If he wasn't going to make this team in a bottom 6 role (which is a reasonable approach considering his defensive inefficiencies) - He would have probably been waiting until one of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Franzen, or Nyquists (which is coming) contracts to be off the books at a minimum. Of our top 6, the first contract to expire is Datsyuk's in 3 years. Jarnkrok would not have waited that long. Often overlooked is the fact that our GM who recognized this, places on emphasis on opportunity and may have wanted to give the kid a chance to play elsewhere. It helped continue the streak... which may be one of the few motivating factors left in attracting players.

Valid point - The answer is maybe, but maybe not... Any good RH Dman that we are linked too always includes the likes of Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, or Mantha (a prospect much more valuable than Jarnkrok was) in return. You don't hear Pulkkinen, or Sproul, even Mrazek (our good prospects in a similar class to Jarnkrok) in trade talks for what the Red Wings are currently trying to acquire.

Here is a simple two-step process I think we should all consider when arbitrarily comparing the Legwand trade to any/every potential trade we have yet to make... 1. The Legwand trade was bad, but would have been a lot better had he re-signed. 2. No-one (Including Mike Babcock or Ken Holland) wanted Legwand re-signed. So why make the trade? First of all, at the time of the trade - he became our #1 Center and helped us make the playoffs to continue the streak - don't underestimate the chemistry Franzen, Legwand, Nyquist had and the streak they also went on. Forget the name on the back of the jersey but focus on what Legwand represented at the time, and understand any trade deadline deal where you acquire a #1 Center is going to cost you a decent prospect. Yes - I get it, Legwand was a rental, and he has never been a #1 Center (but was forced into that role because of Injuries) so giving away our TOP center prospect was a HUGE overpayment... WRONG - Why? Because Calle Jarnkrok was probably NEVER going to play for the Detroit Red Wings - much like what may happen with some of our Defense prospects in the coming years - You either risk losing them on waivers, or risk losing them to Europe when they can't crack your roster (see Adam Almqvist). In terms of Jarnkrok, he is what we already have a surplus of... undersized and a natural Center. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm, Glendenning, Sheahan, Andersson and Franzen are all natural centers ahead of Jarnkrok of the depth chart, plus most of them are on long-term contracts that expire way after Jarnkrok was going to stick around for.

Don't know if I missed a link here but why does anyone with a pulse believe Landon Ferraro and a "pick" is going to get us Mike Green? That wouldn't even get us Red Green. Did you miss the Legwand trade?

Guys, I am as pissed off as most Red Wings fans today out of our lack of ability to sign (any) big name free agents, and even more pissed off that our only substantial move was re-signing Kyle Quincey to a contract that pays him as much money as Jonathan Ericsson, more money than Johan Franzen and only 0.5 Million less than Nick Kronwall makes (still a top 10 defenceman in the league). But as much as we can complain about Quincey, and predict that next season will be a complete disaster - I am seeing more and more tank for McDavid posts - I ask myself when did Matt Niskanen become worthy of a 7 year contract? Isn't Dan Boyle 37 years old coming off a 36 point season on a great team where he was a -8? Why did the world end when we didn't sign these two? Lets just try to use some perspective before we completely turn our backs... Last season, in a 16 team conference - we finished 1 point behind 6th place PHI and 3 points behind 5th place NYR (who eventually played in the Stanley Cup Final) while having an historically bad (by our standards) record of 5-9 in the shootout. More importantly, we also had our top 3 forwards (when measured by salary) D, Z and Weiss miss 37, 37, and 56 games respectively. I hate to make excuses, but of the 6 teams in our conference that had more points than us last year, not a single one of them could relate to our injury situation (in terms of man games lost to star players). For ex. the top 6 scorers on the Boston Bruins all played in atleast 78 games, and 5 of them played in 80 or more - please don't tell me this would not have helped us or improved our position in the standings. If we look ahead to next season - what do we have to be optimistic about? Well, we haven't really gotten worse since last year... No we haven't signed any big names either, but we still haven't lost anyone yet. (Alfie remains to be seen). Can you say the same about... #1 BOSTON - Subtractions: Thornton, Iginla, Meszaros, Moore. Additions: None. #2 PITTSBURGH - Subtractions: Jokinen, Vitale, Orpik, Glass, Engelland, Niskanen, Conner. Additions: Comeau, Ehrhoff. #3 TAMPA BAY - Subtractions: Lindback, Aulie, Desjardins. Additions: Nabokov, Boyle, Blunden, Stralman. #4 MONTREAL - Subtractions: Briere, Gorges, Vanek, Gionta, Blunden, Dubnyk. Additions: Parenteau, Gilbert, Malholtra. #5 NEW YORK - Subtractions: Pouliot, Stralman, Richards, Boyle, Bickel. Additions: Hunwick, Glass, Kostka, D. Boyle. #6 PHILADELPHIA - Subtractions: None. Additions: Jones. The point here is that outside of Tampa Bay, the 5/6 teams that had more points than we did last season have not improved either - and to take it a step further, I certainly feel that Boston, Pittsburgh, Montreal, and the NYR have all regressed. In terms of teams within striking distance who have also improved, NJ and WSH certainly stand alone. When you consider the possibility of a healthy team, the emergence and continued development of our younger players, the cap room and prospect pool we have to acquire pieces (which Holland MUST use at this point) and the lack of improved teams conference wide + number of teams in our division who have taken a step back (BOS, MTL, TOR, OTT,) I don't think the sky is falling as fast as it seems.

I would certainly trade Tatar if he were the centerpiece of a package to acquire Tyler Myers. I understand what kipwinger is eluding too (sorry I don't know how to reply to posts with the quote above it) but I think you could also say the same about Myers - who in only 10 months older than Tatar by the way. If you were to compare Chris Pronger, Zdeno Chara and Jay Bouwmeester's first 4 seasons in the NHL, Myers certainy doesn't look out of place (with MUCH better numbers than Chara). The point is that defenseman - especially "big" defenseman - take much longer to develop than forwards typically do - and when you consider that Myers has struggled the last 3 seasons, look no further than the team he is playing on. It should come as no surprise that his best 2 seasons were the only seasons his team made the playoffs during his career, and his best season (48 points as a Rookie) was also the teams best season (division winners). Pronger did not have 48 points until his 7th NHL season. Chara did not have 48 points until his 9th NHL season. Bouwmeester has never scored that many points. I don't really know who his partners have been throughout the years, but I'm willing to bet that he hasn't had one as complete as Kronwall. I can also tell you that when you look at his defensive game (because I am aware that Pronger and Chara are defensive minded players) isn't much further behind then these players as 24 year olds. He would instantly help our PP with his huge RH shot and our PK by finally having a player who can clear the front of the net. KRONWALL - MYERS ERICSSON - SMITH DEKEYSER - QUINCEY Is a much better top 6 than anything we had last year - don't forget or underestimate that Quincey was a much better player with Dekeyser than he was with Smith. I would do Tatar, Kindl, Oullete, and a 2016 1st in a heartbeat for this player.

Unfortunately, Mantha will only be making this team in a top 6 role... And based on all reports regarding his defensive inefficiencies - he will also be playing with our 2 best defensive forwards in that top 6 - But none of that matters because those line combinations were NOT my idea of who's pencilled into the lineup next year, it was my best way of displaying the potential depth this team has and what we can look forward to in the future. If you had read the first line before the names, it clearly states "for future reference, this is what our team looks like without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey."

I started the topic because I was annoyed of hearing about how bad we were when we didn't sign Boyle or Niskanen, or that no-one wants to play in Detroit anymore. To me, this represents an approach we as fans believe in that is simply unrealistic, because in the (hard) salary cap era - no team can/will compete for the Stanley Cup on a yearly basis. Not only does the hard cap hinder the money we can spend on free agents every summer, but the 7 year contract also limits free agency availability and allows the best players every year (who aren't ever elite) to receive inflated contracts because of the demand for them. To be honest, I would rather have Quincey for 2 years at 4.25 Million than Niskanen for 7 years at 5.75 Million. Yes, Niskanen is a better Defenseman - but his contract is a representation of 1 decent year he had while playing the majority of his minutes with the top scorer in the NHL. When you consider he was on the 1st PP unit and took the place of Letang for most of the season, 46 points on a top 5 scoring team isn't really that fantastic. Last year at this time (after losing in the 2nd round to the eventual Champs) we were ecstatic about the season we had and the kids who were coming up (we followed it up by adding 2 of the top 3 available free agents on July 1st) - this year injuries completely derail our season... yet we still make the playoffs... have even more kids develop in between... lose in the 1st round the best team in our conference... and the world is ending? What if we had gone for (arguments sake) 8-6 in the shootout instead of 5-9, we would have had the 5th most points in the conference and played a much easier first round opponent... What if we had won that series and then gotten back Ericsson, and a fully recovered Z? The outlook would be much different I'm sure... For future reference - this is our lineup without Franzen, Weiss, Kindl and Quincey. ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - MANTHA NYQUIST - HELM - JURCO TATAR - SHEAHAN - PULKKINEN ABBY - GLENNY - MILLER KRONWALL - SMITH DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO ERICSSON - SPROUL Please explain to me how we have nothing to be excited about?

What is wrong with you people? You cannot and will not be in a position to compete for the Stanley Cup every year in a hard capped system. If you are lucky enough to make the playoffs every year in between then that's what you have to be excited about. Plus the emergence of a very young core of players, who (even if only one) can turn into a superstar this season. You also have Mantha, Pulkinen, and 2-3 AHL Defenseman who look very promising already. If Kenny HAD to sign Boyle or Niskanen because we had no OTHER alternatives he would have jacked the offers, but he probably knows a bit more than we do about who we have coming up and wants to atleast give them a try

I guess this will go in the "Teams Future" section. TO FLA - Thomas Tatar, Xavier Ouellet, 2014 1st Round Pick (#15 overall) TO DET - Aaron Ekblad. There is no reason to assume we are going to acquire any "top 4" defenseman this summer because god knows we aren't overpaying for Boyle or Niskanen (and after that who cares). We also aren't getting Shea Weber, Keith Yandle, Mike Green or PK Subban through trade because this "isn't a video game". So - if the only way to improve our team is through drafting/player development, and we have accumulated several assets by doing so... why not trade what we have a surplus of and complete the youth movement. Tatar is a small, left handed shooting offensive minded winger. He can be replaced by Pulkinnen. Our Defense would look like this for the next few years: Kronwall - Ekblad Dekeyser - Sproul Ericsson - Marchenko How bright is that future?

What should happen: -Compliance Buyout TooToo (guaranteed) -Re Sign RFA's (guaranteed) -Re Sign Alfie (as being reported - see Detroit Free press ) -Trade Jurco, Andersson and 1st to VAN for Kesler (as being reported - http://hometownhockey.ca/hockey/HH0548.php ) -Trade Tatar, Kindl, Oulette and 2015 1st to Van for Myers (no reports here, but its June 17th why the hell not?) -Evaluate Weiss status and if ineligible for LTIR - use a normal buyout on him. (only if #2 Center is acquired) ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - ALFIE FRANZEN - KESLER - MANTHA NYQUIST - SHEAHAN - PULKINNEN ABDELKADER - HELM - MILLER KRONWALL - ERICSSON DEKEYSER - MYERS SMITH - MARCHENKO HOWARD MRAZEK 21 - GLENDENNING 22 - LASHOFF 23 - CALLAHAN I know everyone is going to laugh but I feel that everything (with exception to the Myers trade) has substance to it. I know this is a dream scenario, but our team retains its BEST young players in Nyquist, Dekeyser and Mantha and gives us a RH handed shot on almost every line. That trade for Myers might be an overpayment but remember that Defenseman (especially his size) take a lot longer to develop into superstars than forwards do. See Chara, Pietrangelo, and even Chris Pronger didn't have 40 points until his 6th NHL season. I would even add Abdelkader or Anthanasiou to that trade.

I must admit, I also like to get caught up in the circus that comes as soon as the season ends and into mid-July - excited about all of the potential names available, and where they would fit into our lineup. Unfortunately, this team probably made its biggest splash (in years) in free agency last year and based on the results, may be hesitant to do so again this year. We signed basically the two biggest names on the market (outside of Clarkson and Horton) and finished in 8th and played 5 post-season games. Yes, I know about the injury situation - but one of the biggest injury concerns was the guy we signed on July 5th... Lets be honest - we are not getting Weber, we are not getting Kesler, we are not getting Spezza or Thornton and we probably aren't getting Tyler Myers either. I really hope we don't throw the cheque book at Niskanen either. Realistically, my best case scenario this season for this team is to sign Dan Boyle to a 2 year contract. If health is something that cant be counted on or against, I have to stick with this group of forwards because when healthy and with a big summer, they should by dynamite. TOP 6 KRONWALL - SMITH DEKEYSER - BOYLE ERICSSON - MARCHENKO I would then use Kindl, Andersson, and Tatar (who has a right handed twin ready to play in Pulkkinen) as trade bait to fetch a bigger name that may be available this summer or during the season.

Why Not... 1. Trade Jurco, Andersson, 2014 1st Round Pick (#15) for Ryan Kesler 2. Trade Dekeyser, Tatar, Marchenko, and 2015 1st + 2016 Cond 2nd for Shea Weber 3. Sign Boyle 4. Re-Sign Alfie ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - ALFREDSSON FRANZEN - KESLER - MANTHA NYQUIST - SHEAHAN - PULKINNEN ABDELKADER - HELM - MILLER WEBER - KRONWALL ERICSSON - BOYLE KINDL - SMITH HOWARD

People, Besides staying relatively healthy - this team has ONE NEED. A capable puck moving, offensive defenseman that plays within our system. Forget this obsession with the Right Handed Shot, last time we won a cup we only had 1 in our top six. Our problem is and (has been since Lidstrom left), a massive void on the backend where we lack the playmaking, transition and control of the game we once had. Kronwall can certainly play this style - but unfortunately he cant seem to do it while playing the shutdown role as well. As long as management stays on the same page - and based on our prospects pool we certainly draft like it - we need to acquire a defenseman (left or right handed) that can get the puck out of our zone and set up/sustain our possession based offense. We still have a very capable group of forwards, not any worse than those of Montreal or New York - the difference is they have much better puck movers than we do. The rest of our top 6 (Ericsson, Dekeyser, Smith, Kindl and Quincey) represent 4 players that played the exact same defensive minded game, and Brendan Smith who does not fit the style of game our forwards are used to playing. At times, I liked what I saw from Smith, I thought he showed some of his skillset - but it was almost ALWAYS a great individual rush beating 1 or 2 players, circle back and make a pass to a forward regardless of how bad of a position the forward was in. His 19 points in the regular season, and 0 in the playoffs seam to reflect this. I understand the value of having a mix of Right Handed players, but this team needs a Quarterback - even if he shoots left.