WingedWheel91

Give me Nathan Horton and my concerns about Franzen diminish. Franzen - Datsyuk - Horton Filpulla - Zetterberg - Tatar Nyquist - Andersson - Brunner Eaves - Helm - Abdelkader Emmerton, TooToo I wanted to include the lineup because adding Horton provides us with something that Franzen is expected too, but doesn't - A player who plays his ass off, digs out loose pucks and isn't afraid to crash the net. With Datsyuks ability to hang on the puck and create, and Hortons ability to retrieve the puck and cause havoc in front, you allow Johan to play his game to find space and SHOOT the puck. The second line is full of speed and puck possession, hopefully Tatar can score. The Third line speaks for itself and will continue to grow. The Fourth line is simply the best in hockey, assuming Helm returns.

Which BTW, Hossa has more points this playoff than Franzen has the last 3...in 10 less games...Just maybe, maybe, Hossa is becoming a playoff beast... Just keep waiting for Playoff Franzen to show up, we'll leave the lights on for you...meanwhile enjoy the 25-29 goals he gives you in the regular season. I know Franzen will be here and accept that, besides it gives me someone to blame for our loses and to bash when he gets 6 points or less in the playoffs... In my opinion the debate here is rather simple... Who is the better player? Hossa Who is the better value? Franzen When you consider the fact that Hossa's variance is also much higher as he is currently being paid $7.9 million in real dollars, Chicago is at a much higher cap risk moving forward. And by the way, since Hossa left Detroit his goal scoring numbers have been 24, 25, 29 and 17 (the same range you complained about Franzen being in annually) and he hasn't played a full season yet. I guess my point is that although Franzen is painfully inconsistent and may have overachieved in his early years as a Wing, especially in the playoffs - you would stillmbe hard pressed to find a player signed long term at 3.9 million who is as productive.

Hi guys, I just wanted to share my opinion (and get your's) of not only this whirlwind of a season - but why I'm more content with our heartbreaking loss as each day passes... I hope it helps you cope too. First, I just want to say that this season was truly a pleasure to watch even though it ended in OT in a game 7, after being up 3-1 in that series. But the truth is, we should have lost that game at the end of the third and probably overachieved as a playoff team overall. What matters now is what happens moving forward, and know that whoever wins the cup this year will forever have an * placed beside there name due to the lockout. The first item I take solace in, is that we are now in a much better draft position than we would have been if we scored first in OT last Wednesday night. The final 4 playoff teams draft 27-30 regardless of regular season point totals, instead of 18th (the highest pick we have had since taking Martin Lapointe in 1991). Although this draft is considered top heavy, the pick is still more valuable at 18 as a trade asset or to utilize with the best (european) scouting staff in the NHL... Especially when I start thinking about all of the great players we have drafted since 1991. Next, the timely elimination also allowed several impact players such as Nyquist, Andersson, And Dekeyser to head back to Grand Rapids and finish off OKC to send our farm team to the Calder Cup Finals for the first time since 1992 (Adirondak). Another positive as any sort of Championship experience makes all of those players better moving forward and collatarally increases there individual value as well. Much easier to include a Jurco, Tatar, Ferrarro in a package for a big name after they are integral parts to a Calder Cup run. Because of the lockout, we ended our season in the second round at the end of May. Had we moved on, our season could have potentially ended close to July with virtually no time for management to negotiate extensions with any of our free agents before free agency begins. Names including: Filpulla, Cleary, Brunner, Nyquist, Andersson, Smith and Kindl. Completing this process becomes crucial when attracting other potential UFA's wanting to sign with teams that have all of their key pieces locked up... Datsyuk's extension is probably most important when trying to convince a Horton or Clarkson to come here for a few years. All in all, I think what happened against Chicago was tough to swallow, but probably better for Detroit as an organization moving forward. If we can say that we won a Calder Cup and were one goal away from the Conference Finals in a "rebuilding year" while rostering one of the younger teams in the NHL, (once Bert, White and Sammy are gone), I don't think I'll be complaining, especially one year into the Post #5 era. What do you guys think?

Best case scenario: 1. Re-Sign Datsyuk. 2. Re Sign Brunner, Filpulla and all RFA's to reasonable contracts. 3. Amnesty Bert 4. Amnesty Sammy. 5. Sign Nathan Horton. 6. Trade Quincey Franzen - Datsyuk - Horton Filpulla - Zetterberg - Tatar Nyquist - Andersson - Brunner Eaves - Helm - Emmerton TooToo, Sheahan Kronwall - Ericsson Dekeyser- Coliaccaovo Smith - Kindl Lashoff Howard Gustavsson

I appreciate the positive feedback from everyone, and agree that Jurco should not be included in any deal unless its too good to turn down...

Hi Guys - I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on how our season, albeit with 2 games left to play, can be evaluated from a fans perspective. The 2012/2013 Wings have certainly seen a variety of ups and downs - I know there's going to be a lot of you who will look at fighting for 7th/8th seed nothing short of disappointing, but try to remember that in a compressed season the point totals are somewhat misleading. A quick example: If our 2-5 shootout record was anything close to our 9-3 record from last year, we would be fighting for home ice advantage right now - and I would certainly take 4th place in any transition year, let alone the year following Nick Lidstrom's retirement. I have certainly enjoyed the emergence of players like Howard, Abdelkader, Dekeyser (FA Addition), Nyquist, Andersson, Emmerton, and Brunner. It seems pretty surreal, but after watching our team play in Vancouver, against Phoenix and against LA this week, I certainly feel we can still compete against anyone in the NHL and honestly, would not be surprised if we got out of the first round as a 7th or 8th seed to make a run. I use the word surreal, because it seems like all season people have been talking about the 21 year streak coming to an end, and how Detroit is finally going to face adversity as a team forced to rebuild. But after watching this team, this week, and thinking about what we have done without Darren Helm (who I believe is more valuable than anyone on this team not named Pavel or Jimmy) plus a very young group of Defenseman, and no true #1 (sorry guys, Kronwall is a good Defensemen, but not a #1) I have a renewed sense of excitement. Datsyuk and Zetterberg still look great together, our second line is finally being anchored by the Mule - our third line was the best line on the ice last night against LA, and how many chances did Eaves get playing on the 4th line - not to mention, TooToo's GWG. I understand this was one game, and LA played the night before... but what I look at is how we have played this week when it matters, which is all that really does. Going forward, after all the negative attention surrounding this team this year, I take comfort in the fact that we can still beat anyone (when we want too) and our farm system is the best its been in years. I truly hope that this thread can finally put an end to the Fire Kenny Holland notion, as he is still one of the best GM's in the NHL. The fact he has been to the playoffs 21 straight years is great, but like Suter said last night, the fact he has done it every year since the inception of the salary cap, is unbelievable. Next year with a real off-season, a real training camp, a real trade market for us (being a western conference team moving to the east...at some point... crippled our ability to make the big trade. ex. Rick Nash) and further development from a suddenly young core of players will allow us to once again be at the top of the NHL. Let me know what you guys think.

Starting from the bottom (not a Drake reference) Smith - D (Obviously still not getting it as an Offensive Dman, too many mistakes) Fillpulla - D (Horrible following a breakout year, what's worse is he could of been traded for Rick Nash) Cleary - D+ (Probably injured or unable to fully recover from injuries, not close the same player he was in 2007-2010) From the top Howard A+ (Our MVP this year, will play 42/48 games and is posting a 922% SP and 2.19 GAA) Datsyuk A (In 46 games still a PPG player, and +18 on a team whos GF/GA is only +6 - while playing against the opponent's best players) Abdelkader B+ (Alot of Datsyuks emergence toward the second half comes from Abby's ability to create space for him and Z, scoring now too) Incomplete Dekeyser Nyquist Andersson

If you read carfeully it says "If our 2-5 shootout record was anything close to our 9-3 record from last year, we would be fighting for home ice advantage right now" - Because if we went (5-2) and had 5 points instead of 2 for instance, we would in fact be fighting for home ice advantage sitting at 55 points (2 points behind 4th place LA with a game in hand), which also confirms the sentence before it "..in a compressed season the point totals are somewhat misleading" Thanks

Haha, I think 46/48 games of the season is a pretty good sample size. The real reason I asked now is because if we don't make the playoffs, you wont catch me on the site until early July - and no-one is going to have anything to positive to say about this now anyway.

Hi Guys - I'm new to this site, been a huge wings fan living in the Toronto area since I was a kid, played for the Toronto Red Wings growing up (where it all started as a fan) and just wanted to share my opinion (and get yours) about what we could potentially roster next year. I know its usually a waste of time speculating on roster moves completely out of our control, but after two losses in two days to Columbus, I am looking for something to cheer me up! Based on injuries alone - this season has been frustrating for most fans I'm sure, certainly in terms of production but also in attempting to gauge what our roster actually looks like healthy (a proposition it seems we may not see this season). I have enjoyed the development of Tatar, Andersson, Emmerton, Smith, Lashoff, and Brunner (a FA) but have a lot of questions about Cleary, Franzen, Bert, Sammy, Carlo, and even Helm coming off of a back injury. Here is what my 23 Man roster looks like with the following additions, and subtractions. -Sign and trade for Corey Perry (no longer in Western Conf. or a rival to ANA) for Filpulla, Miller, Nyquist and a 1st -Let Cleary, White and Huskins all walk this summer -Use one of our two Amnesty provisions on Samuelsson (no penalty on buyout) -Re-Sign Brunner, Smith, Kindl, Andersson Bertuzzi 2.0 Datsyuk 6.7 Perry 6.0 Kindl 2, Andersson 1, DEPTH UFA +1 Franzen 3.9 Zetterberg 6 Brunner 3.5 Tatar 0.8 Helm 2.1 Eaves 1.2 Abdelkader 2 Emmerton 0.5 TooToo 2 Kronwall 4.7 Ericsson 3.2 Quincey 3.7 Smith 2.0 Lashoff 0.7 Coliaccovo 2.5 Howard 4.65 Gustavsson 2.2 TOTAL SALARY 64.3 SALARY CAP 64.3 This allows us to give Coliacovvo (an offensive minded DMan) a chance to see where he fits into our team and PP and if all falls with him and or Quincey, both contracts come off the books that season. Allowing us to pursue other options at that time. This team looks like a Stanley Cup Contender in my opinion, and if Franzen continues to decline - we can use our second Amnesty on him next summer. What do you guys think?

It seems that every fan or analyst watching the Wings play this year is at a loss for words when it comes to our scoring and power play - not that these thing's don't need to improve - but continue to describe those two areas of our team as our Achilles heal. Let me me point out that our depth at forward is NOT the issue with this team. We have two of the best two way forwards in the world, centering our first two lines. We have them paired with capable, at the very least, players in Franzen, Filpulla, and Brunner. Throw in Bertuzzi, Tatar or Sammy as Datsyuk's other winger and you have one of the better top 6's in the league. Helm as a third line center, with Abby in a role he thrives in (not on Pavs wing as a scorer) and again, a very solid third line. I know injuries have been a big part of the problem this year, but people are forgetting who we have in the lineup when it comes to trade talk. Our offence has struggled because of our DEFENCE. When you roster such a young, but immobile defense core - your offence struggles the most. With experience comes poise, and with poise comes a better first pass, a smoother transition and a smarter chip to exit the zone. I don't care if you have Datsyuk and Z playing together, if they start every shift in there own zone and spend 15-20 seconds trying to breakout, even there offence is going to struggle. In our top 6 - Kronwall - Ericsson Quincey - Smith Kindl - Lashoff You have by all intensive purposes, 3 rookies that seem to play a very similar, conservative game, a player in Quincey who has played 2 full seasons in the NHL, with limited offensive ability, Ericsson who has never cracked the top 4 in his career before doing so by default this year, and the furthest thing from offensively minded, and then Kronwall. I love Kronner but the guy has only been better than +5 once in his career. He only hits in the playoffs, and is actually a better skater than passer (doing little for our forwards). I have been most disappointed with Smith, hes getting top 4 minutes, had a ton of hype coming into the season about his offensive instincts (which I believe show potential) but has 1 ASSIST this season. All in all, we need to focus on guys like Bouwmeester, Dekeyser, Streit, Yandle, Gardiner, etc. before even considering adding a guy like Corey Perry at $8.5 mill per. One of those players would help our cause more than I think Perry would, just based on getting out of our zone alone. In all of the games I've watched this year, one thing stands out - the lack of odd man rushes we have produced resulting from a good outlet/stretch pass. The only breakaway I can even remember was Franzen's goal on a pass from Brunner. Looking back at our last Stanley Cup run in 2008, out of 12 forwards we had in the lineup - 7 are on the team right now. And instead of Hudler, Draper, and Holmstrom - we have Tootoo, Brunner, and Bertuzzi. Helm and Abdelkader are much better players than they were then, so I can really only point to the difference on D as to why that team was a dominant cup winner, and this team is far from guaranteed a playoff birth. Oh ya, and our goaltending that season was a split between Hasek and Osgood. (Ozzie replaced Hasek in the first round). I would take Howard and how hes playing this season over those two. I know Nick Lidstrom can never be overlooked, but seriously - if he was the difference between winning the cup like we did that year, and making the playoffs, I guess we need to start looking. Let me know what you think...

I appreciate the response, however I respectfully disagree. Outshooting the opponents 2 to 1 is something the Red Wings have always done, it is a philosophical approach that has been a part of this organization forever. (If a team wants to get 30 shots a game, believe me they can). The problem now, is that while we still average the same amount of shots per game, the quality of our shots have been compromised. The reason for this is because opposing Defense's are keying on our forwards and keeping them on the perimeter - and our forwards are shooting from wherever they have space. They are able to do this, because they don't need to focus on our defense like they would have in years past, as we all know if you gave Lidstrom or Rafalski ANY time and space they would pick you apart. As for the glory days of scoring 250+ goals per year, I'm sure if you did the research you would find during those seasons, we were in the top 3 in goals scored by defenseman, and collaterally our forwards were also having better seasons. Not saying our forwards are playing there best either, because they certainly are not. I really have only been impressed by Datsyuk lately, he is the rock of this team. But again, (although they are 4 years older) our last cup came with almost an identical group of forwards. An in-depth look: We have substituted Draper, Drake, Maltby, Holmstrom, Hudler, for Bertuzzi, Brunner, Miller, Eaves and TooToo. Consider that Drake retired that summer, Draper was almost done, and Helm and Abdelkader were rookies the FOLLOWING year - then you honesty can't say the reason were not in a playoff spot this year is because of our forwards. Although irreplaceable, just look at the impact one Defensman has - Lidstrom made Ian White look like an all star last year and our team was 5th in the NHL in GPG, and the same Ian White this year can't even crack a roster with names like Quincey, Lashoff, Kindl and Smith playing every night.

Sign and Trade - meaning in this case that both Fil and Perry would be signed before being traded, as both are UFA's - not that far fetched when you consider Filpulla actually had more points in less games than Perry did last year, is better in all 3 zones and more versatile (C/W). Nyquist is a solid prospect, leading the AHL in scoring right now. Include a first round pick in this equation and you already have enough in my opinion. Add Drew Miller who is more than just a throw in, as he would be a regular on that team and the deal should be enough for them. I do agree that he Nyquist will be traded because in a weird way, his value could never be higher to trade suitors or lower to the Wings. He has the most points in the AHL, yet after all the injuries to our team he still hasn't been called up. In my opinion, the reason for that is along with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Tatar, Andersson, and all of our younger prospects like Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, and Jurco, you really have a surplus of skilled puck possession players that lack size and grit. Nyquist therefore becomes expendable (especially because he will need a new contract, but remain an RFA). Perry's Contract will be less painful once the cap goes back up 3 or 4 Million at the end of next season, but I agree its still a steep price.

Sorry for the typo - I feel like Kindl and Carlo may be interchangeable (we haven't seen what he could do for our PP)