WingedWheel91

Draper in his prime was a 30-40 Point Per Season player. In perspective, last season we didn't have a single player who scored over 50 points. The point is that Draper was not a typical 4th line player in 1997-98, but played that low on our team because of the depth we had at forward ahead of him - which would be financially impossible to replicate in today's NHL.

While I agree that analytics are an integral part of building a contending team, it can very difficult to apply them to 4th line players. For Instance, Drew Miller isn't on this roster to score goals or drive possession, nor would most consider him to be a "gritty" player. He kills penalties and blocks shots better than almost anyone else we have... so he makes this team as a 4th line winger. I haven't looked myself but I'll take your word that Glendenning and Ott rank amongst the worst players in CA/60, but they are also 4th line players who are historically charged with individual matchups/defensive zone faceoffs/to provide energy and/or penalty killing. I don't know if you remember, but when Luke Glendenning got injured in the 2015 Playoffs (Round 1/Game 4) against Tampa, we had a 2-0 lead in the game (with a 2-1 lead in the series), and then the entire momentum shifted. Our 4th line (anchored by Glendenning) had dominated our home matchups against "the kid line" and when he went down in that 3rd period, Tyler Johnson took over the game and finished 2 G AND 1 assist (including the OT winner on a 2 on1) to tie the series. I have no idea what Glendenning's CA/60 would have shown up to that point - but I am sure that his injury cost us that series.

In a weird way - your buddy Brendan Smith may actually be the saviour here. He would probably fit well on a pairing with Tyler Myers, and his advanced stats show that he is developing nicely. If you could start with Smith, throw in Oulette and Bertuzi/Svechnikov + a 2nd, I really don't see WPG balking at that offer - and we could afford it. Sign him for 6 X 5,250,000 (Same ballpark as Rielly, Seth Jones, Dougie Hamilton) and you have your future top pairing in DK - TROUBA for the next 10 years.

Although I've long been an advocate for trading for Jacob Trouba the past year or so, the harsh reality remains: Ken Holland is our GM, and Ken Holland doesn't overpay for impact players. No, I don't consider David Legwand or Erik Cole (at the time we acquired them as pending UFA's) impact type players - and although the price was steep, the return for those two players won't be in the same ballpark as what Trouba will command. Just to ruin everyone's Tuesday - which is for some reason the worst day of the week anyway...Take a look at the most recent trades involving an impact Right Handed Defencemen - and what the return was: June 29th - PK SUBBAN - Cost NSH Shea Weber. June 29th - SHEA WEBER - Cost MTL PK Subban. June 29th - ADAM LARSSON - Cost EDM Taylor Hall. May 2th - ERIK GUDBRANSON - Cost VAN Jared Mccann, The 38th overall pick, and the 94th overall pick in 2016. Jan 6h - SETH JONES - Cost CBJ Ryan Johansen. June 26th (2015) - DOUGIE HAMILTON - Cost CGY The 15th overall. 45th overall, and 52nd overall picks in 2015. The early reports out of Winnipeg suggest the Jets are looking for a young, slightly less valuable, left handed version of Trouba to pair with Myers or Buff... Which means we likely have to include Dekeyser in a package that would also require prospects, maybe scoring depth. Forget about Kronwall, Ericsson, Marchenko or Green as these players don't line up with what WPG is looking for... and unfortunately, given the market value of RHD, I don't think the cost of this trade is ultimately what Ken Holland is looking for either. Pipe Dream: Smith (because Advanced Stats), Nyquist (Because he's the slightly worse/more expensive version of Tatar), Oulette (Everyone's favorite throw in) and maybe Svechnikov or a 1st Rounder in 2017... Which is too expensive for us, and probably not even enough for them. Oh well.

This is actually a very logical post that hopefully ends the posts claiming: "OMG it's not 30 hours away people, don't you guys get that airplanes are way faster than cars". Thanks for the helpful insight. So instead of a 30 hour drive in his AvtoVAZ, he's actually only an 8 hour travel commitment away from his daughter - which means his excuse (to walk out on a commitment in which he was contractually obligated to fulfil) that has everyone siding with him, is actually bull$***. Truth be told, he has 2-3 good years of hockey left and probably wants to win something before he's done. He picked a team in Russia that paid him a reasonable base salary (packed with performance based incentives I'm sure) with a good chance to win and never looked back. Who can fault him for doing something he'd rather do, right? Unfortunately that's why multi-million dollar contracts exist... To prevent people from doing something they feel like doing more, because they don't really feel like doing the first thing anymore, that much. Great player, great career - but I stand by what Ive said so many times - he handled his departure worse than any other notable Detroit Red Wing, and shouldn't be recognized much moving forward.

Hindsight is 20/20. I was happy about the Ericsson contract when it was announced, after watching him play on the top pairing with Kronwall the majority of that season. I was also happy about the Weiss, Modano, and Howard (after making an all star team) signings when they happened as well.

Would you rather use Tampa Bay's formula? Miss the playoffs 5/6 seasons from 2008-2013 - stockpile draft picks in those years, compete in 2015 and 2016 (without winning anything) and then face Stamkos, Kucherov, and Killorn in free agency that summer, and then Bishop, Hedman, Johnson, Palat, Drouin, and Sustr the next? I'm not saying Yzerman hasn't done a fantastic job retaining his core players so far (as Stamkos stayed for alot less money) - but in Detroit we don't have the tax benefits they do in Florida, and you can bet that TB will soon be a cap team without some of the names I just mentioned. That's the reality of making the playoffs 25 consecutive years in a salary cap system.

Almost the same contract that Brian Rafalski got... Which is fitting, because this contract will look a lot better when we trade for a #1 Defenceman and pair them together.

That depends on what your definition of valuable is. Vanek's skillset prevents him from playing in the bottom 6... So if he puts up 15-20 goals from the 1st or 2nd line, I don't know that he's even as valuable as Daren Helm who may put up 10-15 from the 3rd line, but also kill penalties at an 84-88% clip.

It's true LeftWinger - I didn't necessarily like the 5 year term either, but Darren Helm is an extremely valuable forward that creates roster flexibility unlike anyone else. He is our best penalty killer plus our best (or second best) forechecker. He has been useful on the first line, and he's obviously been great on the 4th line. Having forwards like this is invaluable, especially in the playoffs when you win or lose games after you win or lose individual matchups. This undeniably happened against Tampa Bay in 2015 (who went to game 6 of the Finals) when Luke Glendenning got hurt and missed the last two periods of game 4, after completely suppressing the "kid line" to that point entirely. I truly believe the legend of Tyler Johnson may have never been a thing if not for that injury. Daren Helm has that ability plus more to offer offensively. Would I like him more at $2,950,000? Of course. But that isn't the math or the question that matters... It was widely reported that he took a hometown discount and had offers over $4,000,000 to leave - so we made it up on term. If the question to me is you can have Helm at $3.85 or no Helm, I take what I know considering I just lost my best player who was also a Center. So if the "number" everyone seems comfortable with (which basically equates to the difference of a league min contract) isn't that big a deal - I can't really accept that one guy is preventing all of Jurco, Mantha, Anthanasiou and Bertuzzi from a job in the NHL.

Well see how Larkin progresses next year - but as of right now, Kucherov sadly would be our best player.

True Enough. I just think it's really easy to see his 4G + 2A in 44 GP last year and call him disposable - but not as easy to understand why/how that could be a mis-representation of his value to our organization, or what he could accomplish given an opportunity in the top 6 (a much better fit for his skillset than on a line with Glendenning). The argument that stats don't matter that much can actually be utilized to the other extreme... Look at a guy like Alex Ovechkin, he is the epitome of elite production yet also the games biggest loser... Is it his fault? Not entirely, but the fact that he can score 51 Goals and somehow end a season -35 (in 2014) indicates he may be part of the problem as much as he is the key ingredient to winning games.

Is that confirmed? I've always wondered about that figuring we had to be near the bottom... But to have executed less than half the amount of trades as the 2nd lowest team - that's truly remarkable. My only optimism about something happening is (1) - Although we've cut good players in the past, I don't remember a year where we had as many NHL ready forwards starting in GR. (2) We just lost our best player and sacrificed Jacob Chychrun to trade away his cap hit. (3) New Arena might = New GM if we head into 2017-18 struggling to sell tickets.

Because most people look simply at stats to determine value. Jurco is a 23 year old who has the offensive ability and size to become an impact forward in this league... We forget that in his first 36 NHL games (as a 20 year old) he recorded 8 goals and 7 assists... (82 GP - 18 G - 16 A). Did he truly regress this much? I don't know that he did. Worst case scenario is trading him away for nothing and watching him flourish in someone else's top 6.

Fair enough. In all honesty, I don't even think its likely he makes an impact trade before the season starts - but I do think he set up a good foundation of forward depth if the right deal comes along... Which is more than we can say about years past.

I agree with you. But I don't think this team is as far away as most people. We need (1) Larkin to continue developing into a 1st line Center - and (2) Ken Holland to acquire a young top pairing Defenceman... We have tons of scoring depth (without any superstars) up front and a fantastic young goalie. If you can add the right piece to our defence, it suddenly takes on a much more promising look. Although Jurco for Streit is an awful deal (and probably not actually being considered) - it's that type of move he should be looking to make, even if he has to overpay... Which is why I believe he stocked the cupboard full up front this summer.

I think its enough to get a player like Trouba - unfortunately WPG probably isn't as interested in Nyquist/Pulkinnen as others would be. It certainly gets you Fowler/Shattenkirk but I think it's an over payment for either of those two players.

I think that's a fairly obvious statement, and unrelated to my original post. Considering that Vanek, Ott, and Miller all have 1 year contracts - they don't have any trade value and probably won't be Red Wings as soon as next year. The next significant acquisition this team makes should be through trade for a top pairing defenceman - unfortunately this requires trading away valuable assets starting with an established forward such as Nyquist/Tatar, including a young player like Sheahan/Jurco/Pulkinnen, and potentially a prospect like Oulette/Sproul/Nosek. In short, if the plan is actually executed we probably trade 2 forwards and a defense prospect away - which will completely change the look of our defence, and open up 2 forward spots for Anthanasiou and Mantha/Jurco.

The truth is that Ken Holland is probably playing golf right now - with his cell phone turned off... So I'm not exactly refreshing my twitter feed waiting for a trade to break. My point with the Trouba scenario was that this roster can take on an entirely different look if we can land an impact (top pair) defenceman... Yes its expensive, but we have young assets and all of our draft picks to make it happen. And if it happens, it may not be any of Trouba, Fowler or Shattenkirk - as there are several players available or soon to be available that we don't hear about as fans (Shea Weber). I have to think that he went into the summer with this many forwards to make a trade - with the very real possibility it doesn't work out.

I'm not overly excited at the moment - but I have to believe this surplus of forwards is for a greater cause. Such as, trading for Jacob Trouba (which would take Nyquist and Pulkinnen probably) making this roster alot more interesting: ZETTERBERG - LARKIN - ABDELKADER TATAR - NIELSEN - VANEK ANTHANASIOU - SHEAHAN - MANTHA/JURCO MILLER - HELM - GLENDENNING DEKEYSER - TROUBA KRONWALL - GREEN ERICSSON/SMITH - MARCHENKO MRAZEK That team would be the best we've had in a few years.

Weakness - Ice

This is something I've also talked about in the Datsyuk thread. Anyone who's played professional/college/rep hockey should understand the sacrifice that comes with it... To think that because is now only a 3 hour flight from his daughter (instead of a 12 hour flight from Detroit) is going to drastically change the relationship he would have had with her next year, is a fool. He simply wouldn't have seen her much in Detroit if he stayed, and might see her a little more now that he's gone. At the end of the day, he was contractually obligated to fulfill a commitment and he decided against it. The excuses he made may be hard to prove wrong, but I think we all know he would have stayed if the grass was greener in Detroit. Well you're certainly done with making any sense.

Although I don't feel I should have to further articulate a very basic comment - have you ever been on a 3 hour flight? What time did you leave your house and what time did you get to your final destination? On average: Drive to the airport - 30 Mins Check in/boarding - 2 HRS Flight - 3 HRS Luggage retrieval - 30 Mins Cab from airport - 30 Mins So if all goes well, on average it may only take you 6.5 hours. Sorry for the insanity - I guess my point was well received.

Which has never been a point of contention. Being contractually obligated to fulfill a commitment was the problem. If he was a free agent, or retired without penalizing this team (no matter how good you feel about the trade) we would all be happy for him. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't just do what you want because you feel like doing something else more.

lol if that's the interpretation you developed based on my response, you are unequivocally contributing to the increased stupidity on this site.