redwinger4747

I'm sorry, but at this point, the Bert injury is total bull crap for me. He collided with Ozzie, the goalie, and got up played for a while then left the game, now he has a concussion? whatever... Lebda was carried off the ice on a stretcher and was ready to go quicker than this. If Bert wants to be considered tough by me, he better play.

To Bertuzzi, Zetterberg, and anyone else who thinks they're being nagged by injuries: cut the crap, and GET IN THE FRICKING GAME! These are the playoffs, not training camp, not the preseason, not the regular season, the PLAYOFFS! I've had enough of this crap "if I can't play thursday....I hope to be back....we'll see when I'm ready, etc." from Z (and Bert now). Injuries are injuries, now PLAY THE GAME! Did Yzerman sit because of a torn-up knee, no! Now all I want to hear is "whatever my status, I'll be in Game 1."

I thought everyone was going to pick Calgary, wow.

Not too long ago, we were discussing why Modano lost the captaincy in Dallas and I began to wonder: Why did Gordie Howe lose it in 1962? Succeeding Red Kelly, he was captain for 4 years before Delvecchio took over and served for the next 12 years, with Howe still on the team. Anyone know why Delvecchio took over for Howe back then?

Lang absolutely MUST go, then I think we should hold on to Schneider because he's basically are only other offensive threat from the blue line after Lids. We need at least 2 PP point guys (Lids + Schnieder) and 2 PK defensemen (Lids and Cheli) after that, Lebda is a must, Kronall will be there but here is where I think we can dump more salary - Markov. Its not that he's played poorly or anything, but we could probably get about the same out of Kindl for half the $. After that, keep Bert and Calder. They are key grit guys. Hopefully both for around 5-6 mil. Hasek and Maltby should be back for cheap, and we're set for next season. Pick up a cheap, hard hitting fighting winger and we're set.

ITS OFFICIAL: Datsyuk is no Fedorov. I've spent the last couple months seeing the difference between Datsyuk and Fedorov on the ice: Datsyuk never takes a game off, he is never lackluster, he never ******* about ice time, etc. Now it is official, Datsyuk is not a premedonna like Fedorov. Since he signed now, he singed for a reasonable amount of money (since Holland was willing to give it to him before the playoffs, it was reasonable) and never threatened to leave. Datsyuk represents how a great Russian hockey player should be, Fedorov represents a great Russian hockey player, who is a premedonna.

Where is Lidstrom???????????????????????

I actually like when players get really excited about scoring a goal, even if it looks vain immature or whatever you want to call it, it shows they are passionate about the game, they care that they scored, and that they love the game.

I've always felt very stongly about the honor of having your number retired with a franchise should be regarded as the highest honor a player can receive with a team and it should be reserved for only the most worthy, and loyal to the franchise. Some teams hold it to that standard, others retire numbers off a whim. I will rate how well I think teams regard that honor based on numbers they have retired. 21 current teams have at least 1 retired numbers. Teams will be judged on the players who have had their number retired and players who were rightfully or wrongfully denied that honor. Although people might disagree, I don’t feel tragic deaths should merit number retirement unless that honor was deserved anyways. Unofficial retirements wont count against teams. 1. Detroit Red Wings - 6 extremely worthy players, all champions with Detroit. Illitch is right not to hang an Aurie banner. 2. New York Islanders - 6 great players, loyal to the franchise, all core to their 4 cups in 80-83. 3. Chicago Blackhawks - 5 worthy players, only Savard and Esposito weren't champions with Chicago, but they deserve the honor. The only question might be Hull’s jumb to the WHA. 4. New York Rangers – 4 players, all deserving. Although Messier only had 10 seasons there, the cup year with his leadership was very special. Leech will be a nice addition as soon as he officially retires, and they are very right NOT to hang a Gretzky banner. 5. New Jersey Devils - 2 stellar defenseman, good choices. 6. Montreal Canadiens - they have a lot, but 10 of the 12 are very well-deserving, although having 2 people up for the same number is kind of stupid. I don’t agree with Plante or Dryden for not enough years with Montreal and especially considering their plethora of legends is all the more reason to hold a very high standard for the honor. Larry Robinson and Jacques Lemaire would be good choices and should get the honor instead. But a lot of good choices nonetheless. 7. Philedelphia Flyers – 3 of 4 are strong candidates, Barry Ashbee only played 4 seasons, but all 4 were there for the cup years. 8. Boston Bruins – 10 players, I don’t like Hitchman, Esposito or Neely, but I like the others, however, quite a few didn’t win cups there. 9. Cagary Flames – pretty good choices, they were there for 8 (McDonald) and 12 (Vernon) years and importantly, the cup year. 10. Carolina Hurricanes – Francis is a great only choice with 16 years of service, but saldy wasn’t there for the cup. They are right not to hang a Gordie Howe banner. 11. Vancouver Canucks - only 1, Stan Smyl, has been, but he played his entire carrer there and racked up a lot of pts. However, no cups means no great memories. 12. Los Angeles Kings – I don’t like Vachon and Gretzky is debatable, but the others are worthy. Again, no cups = no great memories, though. 13. Pittsburgh Penguins – they are 1 for 2. Lemieux needs no comment, Briere should definitely not have a banner. I’ll be happier once I know Jagr won’t get one, as he shouldn’t either. 14. Edmonton Oilers – Even though they have 5 cups, they have passed out this honor a little too easily. Gretzky and Messier belong, Kurri is an okay choice, Fuhr, Coffey, and Hamilton should not be there. 15. Colorado Avalanche – Roy is fine even at only 8 years, his 2 cups were special, but Bourque should not be there at all. Sakic’s banner will give it more credibility, as long as Forsberg stay off, unless he returns to the team. 16. St Louis Blues – a lot of mediocre choices here, Federko is the most deserving but what is Gassoff doing here? Even Hull and MacInnis aren’t that strong. Thank god no Gretzky. 17. Washington Capitols – Langway and Hunter aren’t bad choices, but not exceedingly great. Labre has no business there. 18. Buffalo Sabres – they have been giving this honor out way too easily. Only Perreault deserves it. The others, despite the French connection line, don’t have enough years and again, no cups. 19. Dallas Stars – Its tough because Broten and Goldsworthy are okay choices, but played mostly in Minnesota, not Dallas. Masterton barely played, he shouldn’t be there. A Modano banner will help things, especially considering the cup year. Why did he lose his captaincy? 20. Ottawa Senators – I don’t like this retirement because Finnigan played for the old Senators which isn’t the same franchise. 21. Toronto Maple Leafs – they are the cellar-dwellers for only retiring numbers for career-ending deaths and “honoring†all others, a retarded practice. The other teams have not retired any numbers. I know this is a strange and/or meaningless thread, but ever since the Yzerman number retirement, I’ve been more fascinated with the honor.

I agree, this would probably happen. This would also happen in Pittsburgh with Jagr, they hate him as well. Fair or not, Yzerman just raised the bar for the honor of jersey retirement for Detroit as far as im concerned. Fedorov was a great player, but what about his commitment, heart, loyalty, leadership, sacrifice (pay cuts? nope), do you really think they even COMPARE to Yzerman's commitment, heart, loyalty, etc? Not at all. Should we really look up and see "Fedorov" right next to "Yzerman," like an equal, hanging from the rafters? NO.

Its kind of pointless to try to analyze well, before player/coach X got here, they didn't win the cup. Players come and go all the time so you can say that about a lot of ppl. Hey, until Aaron Ward, came, we didn't win the cup...... Anyways, the point is Yzerman DID lead us to 3 cups, thats what HAPPENED. So he deserves every honor.

Mess gets his because he came back to NY after he left. Jagr and Forsberg, again, didn't have the franchise loyalty of Lemiuex and Sakic. I believe it should be incredibly selective, therefore, no on Jagr and Forsberg for leaving. Firstly, I think some do agree with me, 2nd, Delvecchio, and 3rd, had Fedorov not held out in 98, stayed for 5 more years, we win another cup, then he spends 2 season with Columbus and retires, he would probably be deserving. Its also because he left himelf, getting traded at the end of your career is more forgivable. Its not that they left at all, its how and when.

Not BEING HERE to be considered for the C , i CAN count that against them, which is the reason Nick is deserving, and they are not.

For Rangers not having Gretzky, its b/c he only spent 3 yrs there, and the last 3, not great ones. Just b/c his number is retired league wide, doesn't mean every team should honor him with a banner. For cups = memories, I don't mean that there are NO good memories, just not the absolute great ones that can only come from winning a cup. Thereby, winning cups with the franchise gives you a huge boost in my formula and not winning any makes it more difficult to deserve the honor, but not impossible, like Bourque with Boston. Yes Gretzky helped the LA franchise but only spent 7 years there, half of Luc's. I wouldn't says he's undeserving, just debatable. Forsberg w/ Colorado and Jagr with Pitt I think are undeserving b/c of loyalty reasons. Yes, they have cups and lots of great years, but then left the team halfway or a little past halfway through their careers. Its exactly the same situation with Fedorov here in Detroit. Therefore in my opinion, as a comparison for the honor, Forsberg does not equal Sakic, Jagr does not equal Lemiuex, and Fedorov does not equal Yzerman. The latter 3 deserve the honor, the former 3 do not. For Edmonton, its b/c they spent lots of seasons on other teams, lacking the loyalty quality. Hmmm.... I guess I can concide that Esposito was great for those 8 years, but what affects me (tho maybe it shouldnt) is that he also played a lot more years for other teams when Orr played only 9 years but that was pretty much all he played (minus the little in Chicago) And so percentage of carrer with Boston was very high for Orr but not so for Esposito. Ultimately, I can understand the disagreement. I don't like Dryden b/c of the terms with which he left. He held out for more money and then just retired, mostly out of spite, after only 7 years. Plante was great, yes, but this is simply a case of having so many Legends, its time to hold a higher standard, so I'd leave him off because the others played many more seasons with the Canadiens while Plante was there for less than half his career i believe. I guess a team should hold onto to history in both cases, but the retirements aren't as strong for those reasons as they are for teams that havnt relocated or folded and reformed. Again, I respect the disagreement. As for the Wings, you could say without Hasek, the 02 cup would not have been won. That doesnt make his 2.5 years of service warrant jersey retirement. Only the greatest AND loyal deserve it.

Yeah, Lidstrom only for the future, no Shanahan or Fedorov. I really don't understand Modano losing captaincy. Hmm.....

boiling is customary, you're supposed to do it because it gets rid of all the excess slime. I saw a short on the news not too long ago about a guy who sells them near detroit and advertises them as "the official Red Wings octopi" and he said they are always boiled first.

I was wondering what people think are Lidstrom's chances of capturing a 5th Norris trophy as of now? I know he has been the front runner all season, but Niedermayer seems to be creeping up. He is a few points ahead of Lidstrom (along with Gonchar who doesn't matter) but thankfully was pointless tonight. I think Lids is deserving especially being +36, but unfortunately doesn't lead the league in that category anymore. I'd like to think Lids is a 2:1 favorite still but you never know. What have the experts been saying lately and what do you guys feel about it?

Same here, ever since his awesome Orr-like goal against LA, he has looked great. Today he really looked good again. I think he is better than Kronwall right now.

Hahaha, wow Im glad to be of influence and sad I didn't see this thread sooner. I'll go one further and rank them with 1 being the best. 1. Howe 2. Yzerman 3. Lindsay 4. Sawchuck 5. Delvecchio 6. Abel and with Lidstrom (who will be among them soon (hopefully not too soon) 1. Howe 2. Yzerman 3. Lindsay 4. Lidstrom 5. Sawchuck 6. Delvecchio 7. Abel I know, I was using it as sarcasm when I originally asked it. But since people wanted to actually discuss Ill offer my answer but seriously, they are ALL VERY DESERVING, so I mean no disrespect

HAHAHA omg, awesome, gave me a good laugh

Saying you HAVE to pick a Canadian team is just plain stupid. They are all strong markets. Thats like saying "Which original six team should we ditch?" or "Which of the six Wings with retired numbers sucked the most?"

I do have to wonder how do Wings fans end up in Scotland or Austalia and place like that? I love it but how?

eliminate from the league? If so, no way I'd take out a Canadian team. Ill go one East and one West: Florida and Phoenix.

I want to play Calgary because they beat us 3 years ago. That would take any thoughts of "we like our matchup, we are in good shape, we should beat them" out of the Red Wings dressing room and replace them with thoughts of "This team flat out beat us last time by out hustling us" or "s***, we're going to have to work our asses to get by this team, they crushed us last time." I'd rather skip right to playing a hard team first, and have everybody know its a hard team, to bring out the best in the Wings right away. If we want to be the best, we have to beat the best.

Damn, no points for Lids and he was even, uggg, oh well, Pronger's strong night will probably help him by taking Norris votes away from Niedermayer, not Lidstrom.