Fred_Bear

I'm not sure how it would work to get him off the books in Philly. He's on a 35+ contract, so CBA says they take the cap hit for the duration even if he retires, so unless Snider has weaseled into a retirement due to career ending injury that would allow him to move Pronger's cap hit to LTIR for 2 more seasons, can't see how it helps Philly. Holmgren, when he was still GM, made a comment a while back to the effect that Pronger would never play again. I wonder if this is to appease anyone for the blatant 'circumvention' of the CBA's intent (i.e. what got NJ in trouble with Kovalchuk originally).

I don't think the idea of a 'top-6' is being 'weeded' out of the NHL at all. The roles of the bottom six are evolving with the game, but having a solid top 6 is as important now as it ever was. The shift is towards puck possession and deeper teams see an opportunity to field a third scoring line. Right now, teams fall into three categories - those that can skate a third scoring line, those that think they can, & those that can't. Chicago is a go. Pittsburgh tries, but struggles. St. Louis doesn't even really try. In the world of third scoring lines, Detroit should be great - Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco. [Not saying some of these guys won't develop into top 6 talent, but right now - they would easily be an above average third line] That would/could give them a fourth (shutdown) line of Glendening-Helm-Abdelkader which is also solid by NHL standards (could be a little bigger, but 'eh not-so-bad). The problem is that they don't have the personnel in the top 6 to allow for it... If we ignore injuries for a minute, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are clear first liners. There's no power forward for them to skate with, though. Mantha will fill that role eventually, but he's not ready even if he wasn't injured and the packed roster also makes it difficult for him to slide in this season. It would be nice to give him a little time to develop at the NHL level, too, before burdening him with the expectations of the franchise, but how long with Z and Dats really be there? The second line is a mess, if I'm being honest. Weiss should be a decent #2 pivot, when he's healthy. Detroit took a shot signing him and to-date the experiment has failed. Franzen has had flashes but he can also be lazy for long periods. Nyquist has the upside on this line, but he's also set up to drop off a bit this year. I think it's tough to expect him to keep a 20% shooting pace. [Note: I'm not saying Nyquist will 'fail', just not shoot 20%. I think he's more than capable of second line points - 40-60.] Now if we apply the current state (based on dailyfaceoff lines)... We're likely scratching Weiss and Datsyuk starts off injured meaning 2 guys are 'out-of-position' playing up on the first line with Z (Abdelkader and Franzen) and our third line is rounding out our top 6 which while above average for a third scoring line will likely be out-matched as a second line. This is why I've become disenchanted with Kenny Holland. He relies on the fact that Babs can (and will) get a little extra and doesn't address holes until it's too late. We need a power forward up front. Either clear the way for Mantha or go get us one.

I'm not surprised at all. Holland hit the easy button. When Dats is ready, Jurco will go to GR. This pushes the real decision making into the season. I think that's where the fun begins. I'm hoping for at least a couple of trades to open up some roster slots. I don't think there are any 'easy' trades, but I hope Holland has a better appreciation of which youngsters are developing where they need to be and who is truly expendable. I'm also already interested to see how the roster develops towards next season. Cleary's the only projected UFA (pray to god he's gone) along with Gustavson, so we still need some permanent slots to bring up Jurco, Ouellet and Mantha and any other potential developments. Holland should have a challenging year a big opportunity to show why he got his extension!

Isn't the thread about Weiss starting the season as a healthy scratch? How is that not 'writing a guy off without barely playing'? Weiss has a NMC (according to capgeek), so an AHL assignment (or even waivers) is likely out of the question. He also has a modified NTC, but maybe he could be moved. Teams are going to look at the fact that he hasn't been healthy for two seasons, though, and his contract is structured such that he makes $6M a year in real salary the next two years. It's not an easy sell. At the end of the day, if a $5M/yr player is a healthy scratch - management is going to have some roster problems. He's paid to be in the lineup when he's not injured. He's not going to 'gain confidence', 'learn the system', 'develop chemistry' or lots of other things sitting in the press box.

Thanks for sharing this! That is awesome.

I don't know that I agree he's regressed, he just hasn't been given the right role. Philly is a terrible place to judge a defenseman, too. Berube didn't trust Schenn enough to use him as a shut-down guy and that's what he's best suited for at this point. His 260 hits last year was 6th in the league and he only played 16:32 a night. In Toronto, the Leafs desperately wanted him to be an offensive defenseman (I think they think all defensemen should be offensive-defensemen, though), which he just isn't... I certainly wouldn't be opposed to him coming to Detroit, if they are going to use him as a shut-down guy (physical presence) and penalty killer. If the expectation is that he's 'fix' the defense or develop into a 'different' player, I hope we don't waste time with it.

In today's game, I would agree entirely - but the expectation now is that all fighting is goon-v-goon. Historically, it was more effective. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman and other top scorers were 'protected' by 'the code' and a healthy enforcer. Of course, the goon couldn't stop bad knees, a bad back, or accidents, but 'borderline hits' and 'suspendable hits' weren't the media topic they are today.

I don't think you can underrate potential. I think this team has potential, but they are rated where they should be - lower than most Wings fans would like or expect. We do have some solid youngsters, but there are big question marks about how they match up with the rest of the league and, if you were building a 'dream team' (even in a salary capped scenario), there are a lot of guys who would get replaced on all four lines... The Wings aren't in a position where they can bring up a bunch of rookies without making big changes, either. Jurco is the only one who doesn't need to clear waivers who has more than a couple games of NHL experience. The fact that some of those 'prospects' will clear waivers through 29 other teams, including Buffalo, the Isles, Edmonton, Calgary, etc. means we're not skating 20 'A' players. Other 'holes' have been identified in numerous posts on these boards - Kindl, Quincy, Cleary, etc. To me, the telling series was Boston last year. Yes, we were fighting through a number of injuries, but they skated circles. Most of that team playoff team is skating full time this year and that's expecting a lot of improvement by a lot of players and in a lot of areas to expect a completely different result. I do still believe, as others have said, if we can stay relatively healthy, a couple young guys continue to develop, and we catch a couple breaks, we have a shot at outperforming the predictions and keeping the streak alive, but I don't think that makes us underrated by any stretch.

I'm interested to know more details as well. I haven't even heard who he collided with...

At even strength, I can agree with you, but Maroon's 4 PPPs in the regular season was half of what Selanne put up. He did have less total minutes, but not 50%... I guess the bottom line is that Boudreau went into the playoffs with a known roster and he knows the individual strengths of the players. He used Selanne basically as a power play specialist all season long and he really wasn't horrible given the ice time he was given... I'm not saying he played like he did as a youngster, he didn't. But he was a reasonable 3rd or 4th line player and power play guy. For the playoffs, Anaheim shifted to Maroon (and Smith-Pelly, like you point out) and that opens up the criticism which Selanne leveled - Boudreau went with 'unknowns' instead of him. As a competitive player, I can see why Selanne was frustrated.

I understand your point, but then where did Pat Maroon get PP ice time in the playoffs? He didn't perform during the regular season nor did he perform during the playoffs. If Selanne is going to be the bar of ineffective play, Maroon was below it all season. I understand Maroon's 26. I understand Maroon's pretty much the only 'tough' player on their roster. But you have to call a spade a spade and in the most important game of the season, I'd take Selanne over Maroon 100% of the time whether you want to base it on 13-14 or whenever. I'm certainly not going to argue that I'm an 'intelligent coach', but PIM over potential scoring in a non-fantasy elimination game doesn't seem that 'intelligent'...

This question boils down to who can and will clear waivers... [Don't forget it works both ways and they need to be able to clear re-entry waivers as well] 22 of the 23-man roster listed by capgeek have to clear waivers to get assigned to GR. Callahan, Nestrasil, and Ferraro all also have to clear waivers to get sent down this year (I'm not sure if they would be subject to re-entry waivers if they get brought up this year). Jurco is the only 'regular' from last season who can get sent down without first clearing waivers. I think taking that into consideration, the Wings are going to face some difficult decisions this season without making some trades or accepting some 'losses' to the waiver wire. I had orginally been hopeful that Mantha would stick out of camp, but with the injury and the roster the way it is, I don't think there are going to be any 'surprises'.

But look who was ahead of him in PP ice time in the playoffs and what production was generated... It's impossible, and useless really, to go back and second guess every minute detail, but Pat Maroon played twice as many minutes on the power play in the playoffs as Selanne and generated 0 more points during that time. So Selanne was, at the least, more productive than Patrick Maroon - Selanne 4pt in 25 min PP, Maroon 4 pt in 42 min PP. I know your reference was to regular season, though. Your characterization of 'massive' isn't quite correct, though. If you look at straight numbers, yes, the Ducks top unit - Getzlaf (23 PPP), Perry (18), Bonino (20) all out-produced Selanne (8) on the second unit. But all played a 'massive' number more minutes with the man advantage... If you look at production per minute of PP time, there were no 'massive' differences - Getzlaf 0.08 PPP/min, Perry 0.06 PPP/min, Bonino 0.09 & Selanne 0.05. Selanne still underperformed by comparison, but not really to the degree you suggested. [For reference, Pat Maroon scored 4 PPP in the regular season at a rate of 0.037 PPP/min.] It seemed to me that Selanne's frustration was more about how he was used or under-used in the playoffs in comparison to a guy like Pat Maroon. Again, swapping Selanne for Maroon on the PP might not have been the exact fix that Anaheim needed to close the deal, but leaving Maroon out there to chew up unproductive minutes is a Boudreau (management) choice that is open to criticism, especially given the fact that Anaheim lost the series...

Trotz should probably focus on fixing the Caps other problems rather than worrying too much about Ovi. I'm all for 2-way play, but you still need to score to win games. Any drop-off in Ovi's production isn't going to be easily picked up or replaced by anyone on that team. That is a huge difference between when Bowman had Stevie focus on 2-way play and the Trotz/Ovi situation, Detroit replaced his scoring elsewhere. [if a 'similar' drop-off is expected, Yzerman went from 58 goals to 24 goals under Bowman and never topped 40 again. Different situations, of course, but even 50-to-40 is going to be noticable.] After Ovi last year, Ward and Brouwer were the only other Caps over 20 goals and both had career highs (with Ward posting an 18% shooting percentage). Can they repeat and improve? Trotz isn't an offensive coach and the numbers will probably be lower on both sides of the puck this year. I'd be more impressed if he can get someone to win faceoffs...

I didn't really lose any respect for him. He waited until an appropriate time and voiced his opinion to his coach. I don't see how it makes him any less 'classy', it's seems more like passion for his sport mixed with frustration in his coach to me. The Ducks basically begged him to come back for 13-14 and then Boudreau gave him 3rd and 4th line minutes every night. His stat line was actually 9 G and 18 A for 27 pts which for a 3rd liner isn't really that bad in today's NHL, especially for a 44 year old. During the playoffs, he got pretty much 4th line minutes and managed 0.5 pt/game which was better than most of Anaheim's squad. I would hardly blame Selanne for being upset at being a scratch in that situation... [saku Koivu might have been a better choice given his playoff performance] I do think this speaks towards Boudreau's ability as a bench boss, though. He's had trouble getting teams to perform in big games (1-5 record in playoff game 7s). If he can't rally a team in the playoffs, his regular season record is a waste.

If we are a playoff caliber team, Babcock should be able to elevate us to being a Stanley Cup contender - top coach plus playoff-caliber team should at least be in that discussion, right? If Babcock can only squeak us into the playoffs, the roster isn't playoff caliber. A playoff caliber team, in my mind, controls their own destiny and doesn't need a couple 'breaks' or puck bounces to eek into the 6-7-8 spot. Depending on which season preview you read, we're not even picked to finish that well... I can't imagine an NHL coach under contract saying much different than what Babs does? I mean, he can't really tell the media that his job stinks and expect to keep it for very long (ask Torts). And I won't argue over the 'value' of juniors, but 'just fine' isn't how I'd look at Babs junior coaching career there. He did finish 1st a couple of times with Spokane, but never won an WHL championship or a Memorial Cup and while a couple kids may have gotten drafted, he didn't develop anyone into an NHLer (maybe you could credit him with Ryan Smythe from his days in Moose Jaw?). He can 'say' he likes working with the kids, but his performance says he's better and more comfortable working with veterans.

Based on what? Both teams had approximately the same regular season records. Relative to the rest of the NHL during their time periods, they were quite similar. I do agree that the current Wings squad is a 'step' down from some of the veteran-filled rosters of years past and I'm interested to see what Babs can do with it. Last year was the first time he's ever had success with a 'young' team at the NHL level. That was the most rookies he's employed in a season and the most games by first-year players. From what I've read, that's a big reason they brought in Tony Granato as an assistant, to work more with the younger guys. True, but neither did the rest of the NHL at that time. The bigger difference was that Bowman's teams were on an upward trajectory while Babcock's have been in decline. Babcock took over a veteran team and eight years later the 'kids' from that team are older and they haven't supplemented with as much veteran talent. The system has to work as a whole, in my opinion. Babs is great with veteran teams (his early Wings squads, Team Canada, even some of his successful Chiefs teams during his WHL days were 'veteran' by comparison). If the Wings are going to make a youth movement, can Babcock adapt? Does he want to?

When and where did he get the 2nd Cup? I'm sorry, but I'd respectfully disagree. Babs is a great coach, but several people have said it, these guys are paid to perform and rewarded for it. At a certain level, though, two guys can't get credit for the same job. Is Holland putting the right players on the roster or is Babs extracting more from less? My point is - if Holland is putting the 'right' guys on the roster, Babs isn't getting enough out of them and, conversely, if Babs is getting the Wings into the playoffs with a sub-par squad, then Holland isn't doing his job. If everyone in management is doing their jobs, how are we a 'borderline' playoff team? Holland already got an extension and credit for his job... If Babcock feels he 'deserves' to become the highest paid coach in the NHL, I hope Holland does let him walk. I'm not trying to take anything away from Babcock, but he did take over the defending President's Trophy winner in 05-06, a team which had made the playoffs 14 consecutive times, and three years later he won his only Stanley Cup. I'm not trying to say he's not successful or that he doesn't get a ton out of his players. But a good coach in a great organization has to be that much better to stand out. Compare Babcock's Wings to Bowman's Wings - 9 playoff seasons each - 1 Cup (Babs) to 3 Cups (Bowman) - 2 President's Trophies (Babs) to 3 for Bowman - Bowman has an Adams' while Babs does not - Babs has an edge in regular season win pct. but in the playoffs - Babs 0.542 to Bowman 0.642. Again, not saying Babs isn't a solid coach, but the Wings won't fold as an organization without him.

Wings currently (according to Capgeek) have $5.27M and change remaining. More importantly, they only have 1 roster slot remaining. The one roster slot comes into play in that if both Dekeyser and Alfredsson come back and sign, only Jurco can be moved to Grand Rapids without having to clear waivers first. That puts a lot of strain on the roster not having the flexibilty to move youngsters back and forth over the course of the season. If I were speculating... I'd bet that deals are (potentially) waiting on a trade to be finalized. Alfie expects to be on a bonus-laden deal (probably $1M-$1.5M plus bonuses like the last one) and, if DD and Holland are off, it's most likely length of contract. Looking at the overall picture, though, the Wings wouldn't have much competition in training camp without a trade to give some roster flexibility the risk is losing someone to waivers... just a thought anyhow...

I guess I have a different definition of 'blue chip'. I reserve it for the best-of-the-best which in this case would mean NHL-ready. Again, I'm not saying that the Wings don't have any or that the system is horrible or that the sky is going to come crashing down. I'm saying that most teams trading top 6 forwards or top-pair defensemen are looking for NHL-ready prospects and based on most of the scouting reports I've read, the majority of the guys you mentioned all have 'work needed' to be ready for the NHL game. Again, not that they won't develop the skills necessary, but it's not there - yet. Can you call Xavier Ouellet a 'blue-chip'? Maybe. He's probably at least another AHL season away from significant NHL ice time, though. Personally, I'm very interested to see what happens with Mrazek. He's still on his ELC and is locked up with another year beyond that, but everything lists him as 'NHL ready' now. Howard's got a long contract, though, one that will burn through Mrazek's RFA years. Seems like something's gotta give there... As far as naming a GM replacement, it's useless. It wouldn't matter who I named, it wouldn't be good enough. GMs get replaced in the NHL, a lot, and by guys who many fans don't know until they get there. Again, I guess I just disagree that the only guy good enough to run the Red Wings is Holland. Way back when, I had heard a rumor that the next Wings GM was going to be Yzerman, but they wanted him to 'prove' himself with another team first. Tampa extended him by four years so his contract will be up the same time as Holland's now... If you want to read it as contradiction, have at it. I understand that the starting points are different, the Wings are a playoff team - not a team vying for a lottery draft pick. I agree, trading everyone for draft picks and starting over would be a bad idea, but then Holland should fill the holes. That's what Bowman did when he took over Chicago in 2009 and it's what Lombardi did when he got to LA in 2006. Chicago had to completely retool their roster after winning the Cup in 2010 due to cap issues. They kept plugging, though, and won another Cup, have made more changes and are a perennial contender. LA made at least a couple high-profile changes after winning in 11-12 and they cashed in again last year and Lombardi has been praised as a model GM. Can you rebuild from the ground up? Sure. Do you have to rebuild that way? No. In fact, what percentage of either of those teams was originally drafted by either LA or CHI during their last Cup wins? 50%, just over? Both Lombardi and Bowman mix solid draft/develop strategies with trades and FAs. Look at the Wings roster going into the season, based on NHL.com's projected lineup 20/23 were drafted or originally signed by the Wings (Weiss, Cleary & Gustavsson are the only ones not from the system). That's great to see that it can be done - but that defines 'sitting back and just waiting for talent to develop'. And, yes, I'm against it because it does take a long time to see any pay off... It's a credit to the Wings (and Holland) that it's worked this long, but as DickieDunn points out - it's a ticking time bomb... What I said was in response to a comment which suggested nobody wanted to trade with the Wings. My comment was that the Wings did not have what teams were looking for in NHL-ready prospects. Would a team want Dylan Larkin or Andreas Athanasiou? Absolutely. Will they give up a top-6 NHL forward for one of them and a draft pick? Not likely. Could we get a top-6 forward for Anthony Mantha and a draft pick? I think we could... [Of course, I'm not suggesting that we should...] Again, if you want to call everyone a blue-chip, that's fine. I think of blue-chips as NHL-ready (at least) or, if they are NHLers, top-6-ready. Based on NHL.com's projected line-up, 2 prospects will be in the top-6 (Tatar & Nyquist) with Jurco taking a 3rd line spot. I'm interested to see how they use Mantha in training camp. Based on what I've read, he should be ready for second line action as you suggest, but Babcock usually doesn't like to give that kind of responsibility to a rookie if he doesn't have to. I tend to think Mantha will end up spending at least a little time in GR because of it. Beyond that, most of the guys with even an inkling of top-6 potential are 2+ years out. Will they develop into blue-chippers? Maybe. I wasn't trying to make it sound bleak, just that the Wings don't have everything that everyone is looking for... On the TB/Dallas comparison, yes and no. On the surface, yes, improving a bottom-feeder is 'easier', but ultimately all three GMs face similar challenges, especially during the salary cap era. Again, the point of my original comparison wasn't to say one is 'better', but to suggest that Holland had taught these guys how to be creative and work themselves out of tough situations, which, to date, they both have... I couldn't agree more that Holland is playing with fire. I think he's relying too much on developing everything internally. As I said previously, 20/23 will be guys drafted or originally signed by the Wings. There has to be balance...

So... I said that we had blue chips, just not an excess. It's easy to take out of context, but as I said, it's not that team's don't want to trade with Detroit. Detroit doesn't have the assets to give up. At some point, though, a decision needs to be made on which guys fill the same roles and who can be moved. I think, realistically, it's unlikely that Jurco, Tatar, Nyquist, and Mantha all play in the top 6 in Detroit on a Stanley Cup winning team (especially with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, and Franzen signed for the near future). That should give some flexibility to move someone (or two) out. I'm ok with it not happening, yet, but at some point a direction needs to be decided on that the team build to that plan... UFAs fill holes. Plain and simple. They don't cost draft picks or roster players, they cost money. Detroit spends a lot of it, usually right up to the cap. Holland hasn't used one to fill a real hole in several years. Yes, we took a shot on Weiss, and Alfie got to play with his buddy, Z. As I originally pointed out, Holland hasn't gotten impact out more than a couple signings in the last few years. I understand that Niskanen and Stastny aren't Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky, but we need a defenseman and goal scorer. I don't mind that they didn't get headliners, but I'm less than impressed that we got Kyle Quincey back and a couple of Arz (Phoenix) throw-aways on 2-way deals... Holland addressed nothing. And even after signing Dekeyser and probably bringing Alfie back, we'll have cap space left - along with the same holes in the roster. I don't believe that an UFA signing 'fixes everything', either. That's why I can't really name names from the past few UFA classes. It would be easy to say - sign Suter, but a better defense doesn't necessarily equate to success. Sign Parise doesn't automatically create more wins. It's a combined effort and a willingness to acknowledge the weaknesses and address them adequately. Do you really believe that re-signing Quincey makes the defense better? Three years ago, it was easy to sit back and say 'I'm glad we didn't trade the future just to get into the playoffs' and now that's all we're doing... I think Chicago and LA are the perfect examples. They addressed their needs and corrected them. Both started with a culture shift to look at the future and build towards a goal of winning the Cup (assume this is Detroit's goal). Both began by building solid systems with deep prospect pools (which Detroit already has). Both enhanced their drafts by bringing in guys through trades and free agency which filled holes (the part missing recently in Detroit). They also both addressed their teams by balancing their rosters with a coaching staff to maximize their chemistry (could that be part of Detroit's 'problem'). I don't think Detroit is in a rebuild, I think they lack direction. It's largely part of the issue San Jose has. Management sees the identity of the team from several years ago while the on-ice product is ready to move on... I think Dallas and Tampa Bay are on the right track. Both Yzerman and Nill have begun to change the culture. Will it happen overnight? No, but who really expects that. Detroit was an 8 seed that got bounced in the first round last year, too. Nill brought in Spezza and Hemsky to address shortcomings. Yzerman was pretty active as well. We resigned Kyle Quincey... Seriously? You want a name and a resume? There are a lot as number9 points out. Holland, of course, will have a better track record than all of them - not many guys still around who might be 'better' in that sense... My point is, the organization would benefit from a new set of eyes and I'd be surprised if there's not a list of candidates out there. Leadership sets the tone. Holland needs to and could set it. He hasn't, in my opinion. My opinion would probably change if he does...

I disagree that it isn't a fair comparison. Both of these guys left the organization, so they gained most of their perspective from within Detroit's group. That they've been able to apply their experience to varied situations is exactly what I want to compare. They took what they learned (from Holland) in Detroit and have applied it elsewhere, in different situations. Holland has had the luxury of ownership who allows him to spend to the cap ceiling and any cap space limitations (or bad contracts) are the result of Holland's planning and management. And, I'm not sure that there is an unwillingness of teams to trade with the Wings, I think that perception is one of the issues. The Wings don't have the guys that other teams want, no matter how rosy we make our prospects sound. We have a ton of depth- and role-guys, but not the excess of blue-chip prospects teams in rebuild mode want in return and it becomes easier and easier for teams to turn down a trade with Wings that revolves around Johan Franzen and Riley Sheahan for a top-tier guy... [Guys like Tatar, Jurco, Mantha, Nyquist, etc. come off the table because they are needed in addition to whatever the Wings are trying to trade for...] That's really my biggest knock against Holland, he's been there long enough. Move on. He has nothing to prove. He's won Cups, he's got the longest playoff streak, he's drafted HOFers, etc. etc. etc. Let's get some fresh eyes on the organization and get ahead of the curve again in order to stay where we're at...

Jurco may get some top 6 minutes, but he's still at least a year (or an injury) away from that as full time and could use some more of the patented Wing development. Ouellet has an outside shot at top 4 and Sproul needs work to get to his potential. Both are great prospects, don't get me wrong, but they aren't close to being NHL-ready top 4 defensemen. And it's not 'better than most' teams, it's about average at best. And that's the thing, I'm not going to be happy with 'average'. The Wings have built a culture of winning and being elite. I don't think that's a bad thing, and I think at some point, you have to look at the leadership critically to determine whether they are in a holding patter or maximizing the potential. It's an impossible question to answer, of course. The Wings four biggest 'holes' over the past couple of years have been lack of a power forward, a second-line center, replacing Lidstrom, and increased 'grit' from the bottom lines. Have any of them been adequately addressed through draft, trade or free agency? I'm not suggesting that a 'perfect' solution is always available, of course, but going into the current season, we still don't have an experienced 'power forward', Weiss is a year into a contract with 26 GP and 4 pts as a 'second-line center', replacing Lidstrom is, of course, improbable if not impossible, but we haven't even brought in a defensemen from outside the organization, and Abby led the team in hits (59th in the league). Acting like we don't have areas to improve in doesn't make them go away... In the past few years, something could have been done. Great post! A lot of what you point out is why I'm a Wings fan. The only thing you're missing (in my opinion) is a little balance. It's not 100% rose-colored glasses, 100% of the time... It's great to make the playoffs, but let's win some Cups... Yes, 23 years in a row is AMAZING, but the Blackhawks have 2 Cups in their current run, the Kings have 2 Cups in their current run. Yes, we have 4 during ours and 6 appearances. Remember, in our first six years of the streak, we had 0 Cups and only 1 appearance... Creating an elite, winning culture is great and maintaining it will be increasingly difficult in the current NHL. I question whether of not Holland is the guy to do it. Look at how Yzerman has adapted in Tampa Bay or at how Nill has adapted in Dallas, why hasn't Detroit made any changes? Prospects are great, but judging their career after their first couple of years is dangerous. The list of players who accomplished more than Datsyuk at 21 or 23 is long to say the least. Does that mean they all developed into HOF-caliber players? C'mon... Jurco is obviously a great prospect, right along with Nyquist, Mantha and several others. But are they legitimate top 6 players in the current NHL? The forward depth in the system falls off after that. Are there guys who could potentially develop into top 6 forwards? Sure, but not in the next year or two. The same can be said on the back end. Sproul and Ouellet and a couple others will certainly be NHLers, but will the be top 4 defensemen on a Cup contender? I'm not trying to perpetuate a 'constant negative attitude', but rather offer a critical overview. The Wings have a history of developing the best and supplementing with trades and FA signings. Since the last Cup, it seems like we've 'tried' the same approach and it's not getting better. We're being forced into developing more of the top-end and the list of teams with continued success building only from within is short about as short as the number of teams with 20+ seasons in the playoffs. I can be content with where the Wings are... but it's also hard not to want to be cheering for a team where they could be...

I understand that nobody is in the room, but you can't give the guy a pass on the bad because of it and only 'see' the good when someone signs. Ultimately, Holland's track record in FA signings isn't that good the last several years. List of Holland's big signings (~$2M+/year) since the last Cup: 08-09 - Marian Hossa (1yr - not re-signed) 09-10 - None 10-11 - None 11-12 - Ian White (2yrs - not re-signed) 12-13 - Jordin Tootoo (3yrs - compliance buy-out) 12-13 - Carlo Colaiacovo (2yrs - compliance buy-out) 13-14 - Daniel Alfredsson (1yr - not re-signed as yet) 13-14 - Stephen Weiss (5yrs - played 26 games and scored 4 pts in year 1) 14-15 - Kyle Quincey (2yrs for a player Detroit was ready to walk away from) The Suter/Parise snub was at least 'understandable' given the same money/term from Minnesota and the connection the players felt. Having Niskanen, Boyle, and Erhoff walk away from potentially more money in Detroit (in some reports) is more concerning. The fault isn't all on Holland, for sure, but top management should be looking in the mirror and trying to determine how to get better regardless of where you lay blame. And, as someone else points out, FA isn't the only key to success. You have to draft well, too. So how many top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen has Holland picked up in the last six-seven drafts? 2008-09 - Gustav Nyquist 2009-10 - Tomas Tatar (maybe) 2010-11 - None 2011-12 - None 2012-13 - None 2013-14 - Anthony Mantha (projected) Drafts are much harder to judge especially for a draft-and-develop team like Detroit. The Wings do have a couple kids who still project well, too. But a lot don't. They are bottom-six / bottom pair grinders. It's drafting by a team/GM which relies on supplementing his home-grown talent with pick-of-the-litter FAs. You can't draft grinders and then not come through on the FAs... The Wings haven't been a team which settles for 'serviceable' over the past few years. Is that what Detroit is becoming?