Bill Berzeench

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Posts posted by Bill Berzeench

  12. Posted · Report reply

    Find one other post of mine where I call someone else a troll, there is not a single other person on this board that I have every said that to. On the contrary, I can find many other posts from other posters calling you a troll. Stop trolling, and I will stop calling you a troll.

    Ovie has scored 516 goals in 822 games. If he plays 10 more seasons which is another 820 games he would need to score more 486 goals. From age 20-30 his scoring rate has been .62 GPG. For him to hit 486 more goals, he would need to have a rate of .59 GPG for the next 10 years. That is way to small of a drop for someone as they approach their 40's as per every NHL player ever. There is no way he hits 1000 goals.

    I missed the mandatory retirement age of 41 the league is going to implement during the next 10 years. SMFH.

    If he plays 16 more years, he needs to average 30 goals a year to get to 1,000. The guy is in his prime right now and his team is really good. 800 goals by age 37 is extremely realistic.

  13. Posted · Report reply

    Firstly, I was making a large point about how people perceive "defensive ability". Not comparing Tatar vs. Glendening with some point about our roster.

    Also, Quite a lot of our players are as good or better than Chicago's. Tatar wouldn't crack their roster but Tomas Fleishmann does? Lol. Chicago is better than us because their top players are WAY better than our top players. Not because their secondary players are better. Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook are much better than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, and Dekeyser (?). Much.

    With that said I think there are a number of ways in which we can improve our lot given our current lineup. And i think there are lots of ways I think we can improve our secondary guys. But we're not likely going to compete for a Cup until we have high end players (in their prime) again. And I'm not talking about good complimentary players, I'm talking about guys who can carry a team night in and night out (kinda like Kane and Toews do).

    Switch all our none core guys with Chicago's and we're still not any good. So it's not like their roster moves are what's putting them over the top. If anything, the fact that they've torn their team apart three times and won three Cups is proof that it doesn't matter who they put around their good guys, not that they've got some winning recipe for player acquisition.

    Agreed to an extent. Their core is bigger than 4 guys though. Hossa is pat of the core. Hjalmersson is part of the core. They've been able to off secondary guys because they have more coming up right behind them. Panarin takes over for Sharp. Teravainen takes over for Saad. Etc etc etc. We need to bring up guys, and ship them out if they dont cut it. Pulkinnen, Nyquist, Tatar, and Richards are not giving us what we need. They need to be replaced.

  14. Posted · Edited by Bill Berzeench · Report reply

    I don't believe you, you're trying to get a reaction. Just like in another thread where you equate Tatar & Glendenning to Toews & Hossa. You are making ridiculous arguments to get people to engage with you but most people dont bite anymore because they all know you are trolling so you keep getting more extreme. When you say things like Toews is better then Datsyuk its somewhat believable, but Ovie getting 1000+ goals, you've jumped the shark.

    Saying the word "trolling" every time you dont agree with someone doesn't make you right. Can you do me a favor and just ignore me? Or don't respond to me? Pretend I'm not talking to you, because REALLY, I AM NOT TALKING TO YOU.

    Ovechkin is going to have 525 goals at the end of this season and be 31 years old. Jagr is 44 years old and still playing. Chelios was 48 when he stopped playing. Howe, 51. Ovechkin is averaging 50 goals a season the last 3 years, and the ownership of his team has built a strong supporting cast. It is completely reasonable to believe Ovechkin could average 45 goals per year over the next 6 years. That puts him at 800 at age 37. Scoring 200 more goals by the time he retires shouldnt be out of reach. I truly believe you'd have to be VERY pessimistic to not think he could be the first 1000 goal scorer.

    roboturner reacted to this

  15. Posted · Report reply

    Bowman signed Toews most recently. Tallon signed Hossa. My point isn't necessarily who's doing what in Chicago. It's who's doing nothing in Detroit. We're talking about who's best suited to play 2nd line wing so we can make the playoffs. They're talking dynasty. Ken Holland has let our organization completely fall out of the picture. The Red Wings are no longer a measuring stick. They are a game every team is optomistic about winning. Tatar's metrics vs Glendening's metrics? Ha!

  17. Posted · Report reply

    While I'm definitely not an expert with regards to advanced stats, my understanding is that usage (much like quality of competition) tends to wash out over time and has only a small effect on possession metrics. But again, I'm not good enough with the numbers to verify that. I correspond pretty regularly with the "math freaks" who do, and I'm just repeating what they tell me.

    And I'm not even trying to suggest that Tatar (or Kane) is better defensively than Glendening. Just that the difference is smaller than people think. Glendenings GA/60 is 2.12, while Tatar's is 2.4. That's the difference of about 16 goals per season. Glendening's TMGA/60 (measuring how much more your teammates get scored on when you aren't playing with them) is .08 better than Tatar's. Both are on the bottom end of the team. That's a difference of about 6 goals per season. So again, not huge, and almost entirely washed out by Tatar's offensive contributions.

    My only point in all of this was not to directly compare the two players. They do different things, in a different way. I was just trying to cast doubt on the notion that being good at "traditional" defensive aspects of the game is all that much better than just being decent defensively, and good at possession. I picked those two guys because the knee jerk reaction by most would be that Luke Glendening is WAY better defensively than Tomas Tatar. That they're at opposite ends of the "defensive" spectrum. But they aren't really. You could do the same thing with Pulkkinen and Glendening, and Pulkkinen actually buries him (weirdly, Andersson does too). Yet pretty much everyone thinks Pulkkinen is awful defensively, and Glendening is much better.

    Glendening vs. Tatar?

    Neither of these guys makes the blackhawks roster. That's why we are in this crappy position. Because Ken Holland signs Tatar and Richards to play 2nd line. Bowman signs Toews and Hossa. See the difference?

  18. Posted · Report reply

    I don't believe for a second you think this lol, you clearly are trying to get a reaction. From a person who thinks 28 is over the hill, you are now saying that a 30 year old is going to get 484 goals between the age of 30-40. That's 48.4 goals per year, for the next 10 years straight.

    At least keep your trolling believable ;)

    I truly do believe Ovi will get 1,000 goals. That's 35 for the next 15 years. To me, it's not a stretch at all to believe he will play til he's 45. And with Jagr scoring 25 goals a season in his 40's, it's also not a stretch to me to think Ovi could average 45 over the next 4 years, 40 the next 4 years, 35, the next 4 years, and 30 the next 4 years. Jagr's a fitness freak though, right? Yah, he's 6'3, 235. You know who else is 6'3", 235? Ovechkin. I actually have a hard time believing Ovi wont blow by Gretzky.

  19. Posted · Report reply

    Except that's not even close to what was said. Go back and look at Bill's first post. What you're saying is what everyone arguing against Bill is saying.

    Average goals per game during Gretzky's career: About 3.5

    Average goals per game during Crosby's/Ovechkin's career: About 2.8

    Not as dramatic a difference as it's often made out to be. About 25% higher. Gretzky averaged about 142 points per year for 20 years. Nearly 2 points per game. Adjusted for era that's still about 113/114 points per year. 1.5 per game. Average. Over 20 years. At 36/37 yo, he scored 90 points in a season where scoring was lower than any year Crosby or Ovie have played. Crosby and Ovie have averaged 90-ish points, 1.32 and 1.16 per game, and neither has yet reached their declining years.

    Highly unlikely that Ovie catches Gretzky's goals. Maybe adjusted for era, since he's more of a pure goal scorer. But he still needs 200 more goals to do even that.

    Ovie will be the NHL's first 1,000 goal scorer.

  20. Posted · Report reply

    mild annoyance/

    I don't understand why both points aren't valid, and one or the other gets s*** on. They're both valid points. Was Gretzky far and away the most talented hockey player in the history of the universe? Yep. But I still think it's valid to point out that he played in a very different era. Would he still be the best hockey player if he were playing now as Prime Gretzky ? Yep. But he would have fewer points. Still more than everyone else? Yep. But it's not necessarily a "dumb argument" (compelling discussion tactic, btw) to point out that the game is *vastly different* now than it was then, or that this would have impacted Gretzky's production.

    /mild annoyance

    But congrats to Jagr, he got on that list for grinding it out over the years. The guy loves the game, here's to playing until he's 50. Maybe he'll be the first player to wear EVERY SWEATER

    Exactly. And is it really far fetched to say that Gretzky's scoring would go down if he was playing against 6'5" butterfly style goalies instead of 5'10" stand up goalies? No.

    Ovechkin will break Gretzky's all time goals record. To me, that is an outstanding feat, considering he's doing it in the dead puck era of hockey.

  22. Posted · Report reply

    Here is the scoring leaders from 1985-86

    1. Wayne Gretzky*-EDM 215

    2. Mario Lemieux*-PIT 141

    3. Paul Coffey*-EDM 138

    4. Jari Kurri*-EDM 131

    5. Mike Bossy*-NYI 123

    6. Peter Stastny*-QUE 122

    Say what you want about it being easier to score, the fact of the matter is that Gretzky had 52% more points then the person in second place. Crosby or Ovie or Kane etc. are NEVER going to do that. I get the argument about total points, but there is no argument about how much better he was in comparison to his peers.

    You could literally erase every goal he ever scored in his career, and he still would be #1 all time in points as he has more assists then Messier has points who is ranked #2 all time.

    Congrats to Jagr! too bad he left the NHL for those 3 years. Would have been nice to see what he could have done. One of the greatest players of all time.

    You know Patrick Kane is 5' 11" and 177 lbs, right?

    Ask Zetterberg.

  23. Posted · Report reply

    Most wingers never get much recognition for being good defensively. They just have so much less responsibility in that regard. Think about Hossa for instance, excellent defensively but never talked about the way Datsyuk, Bergeron, of Kopitar is. So its easy to see why people overlook Kane's defense. That and because " he's bad defensively" has become the most overused pejorative in the hockey universe. But Kane isn't really bad defensively. He's not a future Sellke winner (neither are any wingers) but he backchecks hard and picks up his man on the rush. What else is he supposed to do?

    He's also such a good possession player that he's almost never playing defense. So what's it matter?

    "He's bad defensively" is right up there with "Red Wings fans are spoiled" on the list of dumb cliches that irritate the hell out of me.

    Who said he's bad defensively?

  24. Posted · Report reply

    So do you think Wayne Gretzky is overrated?

    No. He was phenominal. The sport is just different now. If you place a 5'11" 175 lb ultra talented guy with above average skating skill and Godly puck passing skill/ice vision in today's NHL, he's still going to do well. At least until his back breaks.

  25. Posted · Report reply

    Wouldn't be hitting 200 I agree, but he was way better than everyone else in that era. I'd say he would have been leading the league in any era.

    And yeah, Jagr has probably not gotten the recognition he deserves, most likely for being overshadowed by Lemieux and not winning any Cups at his peak. But he certainly is among the all-time greats.

    Interesting. Do you think he'd be doing what Crosby and Ovechkin are doing over the last 5-10 years? I don't feel the same. I think Gretzky would need to add a lot of weight to play in today's NHL. That might hinder him.