therock48880

I think the bolded part is where you and I differ. I feel a guy's presence on the bench alone can have an impact. If you are playing hockey and everyone on the bench is a 5'4" person would you be deterred from going after their best player? On the other hand, if the other team had a guy who was as big as you (or bigger) and is a known fighter, would that deter you? Personally, I think it would deter a lot of guys from going after the skill guys. Obviously, you don't agree. Plus, numerous Wings players (Schneider, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc) in the past couple years have talked about the value of a guy that can fight. They never once talked about having a guy that could fight and play regular minutes. There simply aren't any proberts out there.

C'mon, you and I both know that's not going to happen. Early third period, Wings have a lead on the road and Babs is going to bench Dats, Z, and Hossa? Their minutes would be cut, no doubt, but to say they wouldn't be on the ice is silly. BTW, I'd take Carcillo too, for the right price. The "problem" is that the Hossa signing has the Wings up against the cap. You're right, ideally, a big fourth liner that could fight and contribute offensively would be great, but that's going to be difficult to pull off. I'd take Downey at 500k over a guy like Laraque at 1.2 in the current financial situation the Wings have.

When the Wings are up 5-0 on these guys (which will happen quite often this year, I think) it will be extremely important to have someone that can go out there and go with a guy like Janssen or King. I really don't want those beasts out there stalking Datsyuk, Z, and Hossa knowing that there is no one on the bench that will stand up to them.

But, if you're just going to get a guy to fight, then you may as well have Downey at the league minimum. Unless you can unload a Lilja (I wish Maltby hadn't been signed to an extension last year) for a tough guy. I'd take Neil in a heartbeat but I don't think he would be much of a detriment to the goofballs in Dallas or Colorado.

Watched every second of every game they played this postseason. I think you may have been misunderstanding me. You will have a hard time finding a person who is more in favor of having an enforcer (or two) on the team. I was responding to a poster about one reason that Mac was dressed instead of Downey in the playoffs. Downey pretty much does two things well, he can fight and he can hit. He has hands of stone and simply can't score. I admit, in the playoffs, a more well-rounded player is needed because there aren't nearly as many fights. The Wings had one fight in 22 playoff games as opposed to averaging one every four games in the regular season. My point was that since McCarty is has more hockey skills, he dressed instead of Downey. During the regular season, though, I'd like two of them to dress. With Hossa teams will be taking runs at the Wings all year long. Can you imagine Dallas now? Idiot Ott and now Avery too? Someone needs to be out there policing those morons.

This we agree on. I was in favor of him coming back and finishing his career as a Wing. I was just hoping that last year would have been his last year.

You already know the answer to that SWF. There's no fighting in the playoffs. In the regular season, though, a guy like Downey can be very valuable. For example, the Colorado game when Lappy did his thing to Lids. Downey got even with him. (For those who say McCarty would have done the same thing, Lappy kicked Mac's butt two years ago)

I couldn't take it anymore and had to email the writer (his email address is at the bottom of the article right after where he states that maybe Hossa will come back to them in 09). I mentioned about how all the great players in Detroit take less money so that they can stay in Detroit. I said that since they were so unselfish (unlike certain other players who have signed in Pitts) the Wings have money to spend on bringing in other great players who WANT to come to Detroit. I also made note of his comment that maybe the Pens would knock the Wings off next June and how they weren't good enough this year and how they've been weakened significantly. They've lost some key players but also some role players that will affect them. (i was hoping Orpik wouldn't re-sign).

I disagree. I thought Hossa was their best player on the ice, by far. Fleury had one unbelievable game but he also let in some soft goals that really handcuffed his team. (The Zetterberg goal, for example). Crosby didn't do much to impress me except in game three. Plus, Cindy's defensive skills leave a lot to be desired. Hossa played very well both ways and it got to the point where I was looking to see if he was on the ice instead of whether Crosby or Malkin were on the ice because he scared me.

Not sure I really agree with that. The Pens have some holes heading into next year. Obviously, they'll be pretty good, but I wouldn't list them as a cup favorite. To be honest, and I said this during the Finals, I think three, possibly four teams from the west would have beaten the Pens this year in the finals. And I don't think they will be as good next year as they were this year.

Took me a few seconds too.

If memory serves me correctly, at the trade deadline someone figured out all of the salaries for next year and it was determined they could afford Hossa. Obviously they can afford him this upcoming season. I'd be more than happy to see him come and lose Flip and Hudler. Plus, if they lose those two via rfa, the wings would get picks as compensation. With the scouting department they have in place.......... Franzen needs to stay, though, imo. Having said all of that, I think this is all a pipe dream. Holland has been very conservative with the salary cap and it has worked very well so far. So, for him to potentially max out the payroll for next season seems out of character.

Are you being sarcastic? If not, the Flames at the end of game 5 in that series were out of control and could have easily hurt someone badly. That's why the league fined them so heavily. That's also the game where Bertuzzi body slammed Phaneuf into the ice.

I'll admit, I didn't watch a ton of Ducks games this year for two reasons, 1. time difference between east and west coast, and 2. because I can't stand them. But in the handful of games I did watch, (7-10 games) Bert was invisible on the ice. I literally had to try to find him when he was out there because he did nothing to stand out. In the games I saw, he was a shell of his former self. (granted, I'm making my judgement from watching less than 10 of the 60 games he played this year, which may not be a fair assessment) I agree, he could add some size to the third or fourth lines, but how much toughness he can add any more is something of a question mark, in my opinion. You hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph "For the right price". If he would come cheaply, I'd love to see what he could do. I think he ended up with 40-some points in 60 ish games, so there is still some skill there, I'm just not sold on the toughness.

Yeah, he sure deterred the Flames a couple years ago in the playoffs with the Wings. Without him there, Franzen may have taken a slash across the stomach from a goalie, Draper would have been cheapshotted repeatedly, and Schneider would have taken a butt-end from Iginla. Oh wait....... Haveing said that, I wouldn't mind him on the third line for a much reduced salary but to view him as a deterrent at this stage of his career is ridiculous, imo. Btw, bulking up for someone with a bad back is not a good plan.

I was responding to a poster who said Bertuzzi would solve the wings need for an eforcer. It blows my mind that some people consider him an enforcer. (although i did love it when he body slammed Phanuef)

Let's see, a 6'4" 245 pound power forward who is only 25 years old, has scored 45 and 47 points the past two years while never missing a game. Overrated? Instead they got Bertuzzi and his bad back. Let's see, 4.5 for Penner or 4.0 for Bertuzzi? That ones a no-brainer, imo.

Betuzzi is NOT an enforcer, by any stretch of the imagination.

Sign Bertuzzi and lose Penner as a result! Wow, what a move by Burke.

I'd love to see Hordichuk as a Wing. But, I assume he would get more money than a guy like Downey would get.

I think some people forget there's a salary cap. Downey is a very cost-effective move, which frees up more money for other needs (or wants).

Exactly! There has to be a balance and there has to be role players. Well said.

Holland says stuff every year that doesn't come true. Last year he said he needed a scoring a winger during free agency and he signed a defenseman. Previous years he stated how he wanted bigger, physical forwards, etc... Point being, don't believe everything the Wings braintrust says at this time of year.

So then, all those years when the finesse Wings led the league in scoring they should have waltzed to the Stanley Cup, correct? Since scoring is all that matters, the Wings must have at least 8 cups in the past 11 years. There's a LOT more that "really matters" in the game of hockey than just scoring goals. That's a ridiculous statement. Yes, McCarty has been more effective than Downey in his career. No one is disputing that. But the McCarty of 2008 is NOT the same player as the McCarty of 1998. He's older, slower, and can't fight as well as he once did. He is NOT an enforcer. Someone mentioned (I think it was Opie) that it'd be nice to have an enforcer who could play more minutes per game. Ideally, he's right. However, there are no Probert reincarnations out there. If there were, they would command much more money than the league minimum, which Downey and McCarty will probably receive. Plus, if you give more minutes to an enforcer, you've got to take some minutes away from someone else.