therock48880

So, should we start the "Blake Sucks" or "Blake is a Disappointment" threads yet? (Kinda like the Rafalski thread that's going on right now) No matter what D-man is added, if any, fans will be dissapointed by him because he's not as good Saint Nick.

What the conversation between Illitch and Rafalski's agent should have sounded like: Illitch: We'll give you 6 million a year and he'll get to play alongside possibly the greatest d-man ever. However, once he signs the contract he will be compared to Lidstrom and will never be able to live up to fan expectations of him. Every turnover will be scrutinized while Lidstrom can have a horrible turnover that leads to a 3 on 1 the other way which will be ignored. The only way the fans will eventually begin to approve of his play is if he can play effectively until he is 45 years old. If he needs more information, please have him contact Mathieu Schneider" C'mon, guys, he's NOT Lidstrom. (No goals at home THIS YEAR???) Funny how everyone just overlooks any flaw in Lidstroms game but is all over everyone else if they mess up.

And if I remember correctly from past cujo/hasek flame wars, you aren't the biggest of hasek fans out there. My point in this thread is simple, maybe instead of bitching about hasek or osgood, we should be happy that at least one goalie has been playing VERY well ALL YEAR LONG. Not many teams can say that.

Lol. Good one.

This isn't a two game slump. In 3 out of his last 7 starts his save percentage has been well-below .900. Meanwhile, Hasek has 1 start (his last one) in the last 10 in which he has been under .900. Instead of complaining, we should be happy that while Dom struggled, Ozzie was hot and while Ozzie is struggling, Dom is playing well. Are we Wings fans or goalie fans?

Is Osgood as bad as he has looked the last 2-3 games? No. Is he as good as he looked up until then? Probably not. The REAL Osgood lies somewhere in between those two. When a goalie has been in the league as long as he has and has a career .907 save percentage, more than likely at the end of the year he will be close to a .907 save percentage. Since he hovered around .930 most of the year, it only makes sense that he will have some bad games to bring it down so it's around his career average by the end of the year. This isn't like baseball where a guy in his mid-to-upper 30's suddenly gets drastically better. If anyone's suprised by this dropoff in play recently, you shouldn't be. There's no way anyone could have expected him to continue on that torrid pace the entire season, imo. Edit: btw, the title of the thread talks about Osgood being "lucky". He hasn't been lucky, he's been good. imo. (and this comes from possibly the biggest Hasek fan this side of Puckloo).

Like him or not (not a big fan personally) Lilja leads the team in hits and blocked shots. He has a role and fills it quite well. I'm not sure Quincey could provide those things. On the other hand, Quincey probably wouldn't make the bone-headed plays that Lilja does.

I think maybe we've gotten a little spoiled the past ten plus years watching someone play defense who is as close to perfect as you can get. It seems like we expect every new defenseman that becomes a Wing to be as good as Lidstrom. And before him we had Vladdie. I can't see how anyone could be disappointed in Rafalski unless they were expecting him to be someone that he isn't (Lidstrom for example). This is all coming from a person that blasted the Wings when they signed Rafalski because I thought they overpaid for him. I was wrong.

I'm suprised to read that someone said Rafalski hasn't been impressive. I think he's been awesome so far (after a slow start). Mlive had a poll a couple weeks ago about the most underrated Wing so far this season and I voted for him. He finished in second to Osgood. He's been very steady defensively, sound with the puck, great first pass, and shoots perfect shots on goal that can be deflected. Can't ask for much more, imo.

I haven't seen him play except in the preseason but I'm afraid you may be right. What a disappointment. I was so excited to see him in a Wing's uniform and now I'm afraid he's going to suck. If it weren't for two car accidents (Vladdy, and Grigorenko) I wonder where the Wings would be now.

You seem to be glossing over the fact that a 5 year 50 million dollar contract was hand delivered by the owner. So, you'd rather make 8 million per year than 10 million per year? Essentially skating one extra year, risking injury, for free? Bizarre.

I've never seen any accounts suggesting that. Everything I've seen said he wanted out of Yzerman's shadow and wanted to be the leader of his own team. Even some of the Wings players at the time (according to McCarty's quote) felt that he wanted out. I don't think Fedorov has been overly concerned with principle. His history of difficult contract negotiations and near departure to Carolina would seem to prove me correct. I understand he was having personal difficulties, but doesn't common sense tell you that a ten million dollar a year contract offer with the looming CBA expiration is something worth signing? Instead he signed for 8 million a year. If the Wings pushed him out, then I certainly hope my employer tries to push me out by offering me a huge raise and more money annually than anyone else would.

So, he ignored a four year 40 million dollar contract so he could sign a 5 year 40 million dollar contract? Basically playing a year for free so he could get a five year deal? The 4 year, 40 million dollar contract was on the table until two weeks before free agency began. Lang was pushed out the door, Fedorov was offered THREE very reasonable contract extensions. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. BTW, the 5 year deal was on the table from November to January. 2-3 months seems like a reasonable amount of time to wait for him to make up his mind.

I thought Kopecky played well the last game. Actually, the third and fourth lines were impressive.

10 million per year was on the table for 7-8 months. He ended up signing a 5 year 40 million dollar contract when Detroit had a 4 year 40 million dollar deal for the taking for many months. In other words, he skated an extra year for FREE to get away from Detroit. How is that pushing him out the door? The big contract was hand delivered to him by the OWNER of the team. You think they didn't want him back? I doubt the owner gets involved if they didn't want him back. In terms of reducing the contract, the final contract they offered was still almost identical to what he signed with Ducks (8mill. per year). That's certainly not what I would consider pushing him at the door. Here's a quote from McCarty after he signed with the Ducks: ""I think he just felt he needed a new start ... get out in L.A., which is more his speed," he said. "It wasn't about money so much, it had to be about (job) security." http://espn.go.com/nhl/news/2003/0719/1582918.html He left because he WANTED OUT OF YZERMAN'S SHADOW, not because he was pushed out, unless you consider being offered more money being pushed out.

My bad. The 5 year contract was on the table for 7 months, not 8 months. It was offered in November and changed in June. I guess that wasn't enought time. He was offered a longer contract paying 4 million dollars more per year than the iconic Yzerman and you're suggesting he was pushed out the door. OOOOOKKKKKKKKK. Yes, the offer was reduced in June when it became apparent what the market value was for him and that the CBA would be expiring in a few years. Simple fact is, he signed with the Ducks for the exact same amount of money (1 year shorter contract) that the Wings offered in their final offer and millions less per year than the offer that was on the table for 7 months. I understand that you like Fedorov. He was one of the best two way players in the game and to be honest, I'd like to see him come back. But to suggest that was pushed out by the Wings is insane. He wanted to have the chance to be "The Man" and knew it wouldn't happen in Detroit. Read the article again, maybe you missed the quotes by him and his agent. http://nhlstars.kulichki.ru/players/fedorov/79.html

Originally, I think you are right, that was the plan. After reading Babcock's and Z's comments, I can't help but wonder if there may be a little doubt entering Wings brass minds. By the time Grigs is ready to come up, maybe Babs will be tired of Kopecky and what he isn't providing. Time will tell.

The idea that the wings pushed Fedorov out the door is ridiculous. Here's a site that outlines the negotiations. http://nhlstars.kulichki.ru/players/fedorov/79.html Timeline: 5 year, 50 million contract offered in November, 02 changed to 4 year, 40 million dollar contract in June. (50 million dollar contract was on the table for 8 months) In late June the offer was reduced to 4 years, 32 million. July he signes a 5 year, 40 million dollar contract with the Ducks. His Ducks contract was for 8 milliion a year which is exactly what the Wings final offer was and 2 million less per year than the contracts that were on the table from November until the end of June. Poor guy, yes he was pushed out the door. Interesting quote: "He has talked about wanting a larger role and more ice time. But he's mostly addressed the issue by simply saying it was time to leave. And that hasn't changed."

He was offered a 5 year, 50 million dollar contract. That's more than he signed for with the Ducks. The contract was offered during the season and changed by the end of the season. However, offering someone 50 million dollars isn't what I would call letting him leave. My memory is getting bad but I believe the final contract they offered him was very similar to the one he signed with the Ducks.

Here's another article on him. This one is longer. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...ron_downey.html Here are some quotes from it: "It's great to see," Zetterberg said. "I think all of us got a little extra energy when he did that and it was a great fight. It changed the momentum back to our side. It doesn't happen that often, but now we've had four fights this year (Drake has the other three). It's good, it belongs in the game. The fans like it and we like it, too." "I thought that (fight) was really good, but I also thought that all the games he's played he's been effective," Babcock said. "He knows how to play. He's never going to be accused of being overly skilled or overly fast, but he is overly determined and he's a great team guy, says good things and does good things and makes our team better."

Best: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hasek I, Hasek III Worst: Hasek II. (I love Hasek but they created quite a lockeroom mess by letting him come back after they had signed Cujo. I don't blame him for wanting to play but I do blame Wings' brass for bringing him back before getting rid of Joseph) They didn't LET Fedorov go. He was offered MORE by the Wings and chose to go anyways. Secondly, how can you say signing Hasek this past summer was one of their worst moves? You can make that determination after he's played all of five games? A little early for such a bold statement.

I couldn't agree more.

I just hate it when people can't show good sportsmanship and admit defeat. I agree, I felt the Wings were capable of beating the Ducks last year. But, they didn't do it. I'm not going to sit here and lament the "should haves". They lost, it's that simple. Move on and make the necessary adjustments to overcome those "bad breaks".

You're calling HIM a "Nancy Boy" when he's man enough to admit that the Wings lost to a better team? Yet, many others are whining that they lost because of "bad bounces" and "bad officiating"? That's comical. So, to be a man, he shouldn't accept defeat and SHOULD complain and blame the officials? Nice seventh grade mentality. Lose and blame everyone else. (I teach 7th grade and that's what the students do EVERY time they lose a football game)

That's a great point. I don't think I've ever heard Babcock say anything good about Osgood. I guess I see it more black and white. If you lose something, then you weren't quite good enough to win it. I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with it. If they were good enough to win, they would have won, in my opinion.