therock48880

Didn't have an impact on the outcome of that game. Did it have an impact on the rest of this series? Well, Holmstrom disappeared the rest of the series. It's all a matter of opinion I suppose and has been debated over and over.

I didn't watch all the vids posted in this thread so if someone has already posted this, i apologize. I know this is a kocur thread but this may be the best, longest fight I have ever seen. It's probie and mcsorley.

Vladdy, not even close. Boy, what if..........................????? p.s. Some have called him "Big Bad Vlad". That's one thing that was amazing about him, he wasn't very big at all. But he hit like a truck.

Great description of the schedule. John Clayton is reporting that Calvin Johnson will be signed by Wednesday or Thursday and it would have been sooner but his agent was at a funeral with Brett Favre. Here's the link if you'd like to check it out: http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2007/...ld_be_in_c.html

Considering the wings need a scoring forward and have tons of young talent on D, I don't see the point in bringing him back to play D.

The theory behind the cover 2 defense is that you don't have to have good cover corners. I guess we'll find out how accurate that is this year because the corners are scary. I'm also not a huge fan of the safeties. That offense better score 30 a game because they will probably give up at least 28 a game. p.s. 6-10 prediction. They have the toughest schedule in the nfl this year based off last year's won-loss records.

This is why I love the fact that the Oilers made this offer. The Ducks have to match (don't they?) and that will screw them next year. Squirm Burke, squirm.

You're right. He needs to be in camp. These guys hurt their rookie seasons by holding out like this. The Lions offense if quite intricate and Johnson would benefit greatly by being in camp. Although, from what I hear he is one of the few guys that actually studies the playbook. (Stanton being another one). I don't know much about the Browns but this HAS to be hurting Quinn's development.

Well, here we are. It's the opening day of training camp and the first player drafted by the Lions in a long time that instills some hope in the franchise and he's......................... unsigned. Oh yeah, the supposed quarterback of the future is also at home. Sigh......

Big Avs fan from what I remember. Plus, he's simply a moron. Is that PC?

Until they decline too far, which causes No Cups. There's gotta be a balance between toughness and talent. That balance has been out of whack recently.

There are different ways to interpret numbers. Regular season success, postseason success, etc... To me, it appears as if the most effective mix was having about 5 players who were consistently getting pims, for example the mid to late 90's. Now, if you want to base it purely on regular season stats, then going with the lower number of people getting penalites (2000's) is the way to go. The question was posed if a young Probert and Kocur would fit on this team Of course they would. Probert spent the first year of his career on Detroit's top line with Yzerman. I believe he scored 29 goals one year. He wasn't a Peter Worrell goon, he could play. Kocur was as effective offensively but he was a good skater and a sound player. Who would they replace in the lineup? Hudler or Probert? Not a tough call for me. Kocur or Kopecky? Not a tough one. Probert, Dats, Homer Kocur, Zetts, ?????? AHHHH, one can only dream..... Drake does NOT have more skill than Probert had. In the seasons he played full season in Detroit, he averaged over 15 goals per season. Drake has averaged 12 per season. (I'm not ripping on Drake, I like the signing)

Mine was sweeping the preds in the back to back games in the middle of March. There was a lot riding on those games and the Wings won the first one in Nashville and the second in Detroit.

Pretty broad statement. I was at the second of back to back games against Nashville on March 14th. To refresh memories, this was a huge game in terms of the division lead and it was the game after Tootoo had suckerpunched Bootland. It was loud in the arena when Bootland tried to get Tootoo to fight. Then it gradually subsided. There were numerous empty seats, btw. Granted, it was the middle of the week but in years past the Joe would have been rocking for such an important game. I'm not saying the reason for the empty seats was due to a lack of fighting/toughness on the team, just making statements. The Joe was like a morgue at times last year. Maybe it's because of the success of the Pistons and Tigers, I don't know. But it was different this year. For those wondering how I got the tickets, a fellow seventh grade teacher is married to a man that is a big shot with Taco Bell. Taco Bell has seats at the Joe and they didn't have anyone to use them. She offered them to us and we gladly accepted. p.s. I meant to quote the post from Heaton that stated something to the effect of "It's hard to get excited when the Wings were bulldozing through the regular season" or something to that effect. Heaton, did you remember that the Wings trailed Nashville most of the year? I don't understand why it's so bad to say anything negative about the guy.

Sellouts, yes. Filled stadium? Hardly ever. There were empty seats at numerous Wings games this past season. In fact, up until the playoffs, the Joe was the quietest I had ever heard it. People just sat there. I attended games last season and the place was completely emotionless. On TV the crowd was never a factor. For me, it was alarming how little emotion the fans at "Hockeytown" showed this past season.

Great post Harold. This isn't an issue of picking up one or two players. One player isn't going to make the Wings bigger. This has to be a whole organizational effort. They've lost so much size in recent years that they are left with an extremely small team with no one that can stand up for anyone or deter opposing teams from cheapshots. There needs to be some element of unpredictability. That's why I'm in favor of an Avery signing. Yes, he'd take stupid penalties, however opponents would never be sure what he's going to do next. (by the way he doesn't address the size issue either).

Are you kidding? Those two, especially Thorne are HORRIBLE. Thorne is wrong more on the players than anyone I ever heard. All he does is look at the first number on their jersey and pick a name of somone with that same first number. Numerous times he call "Maltby" "Hull", or "Yzerman" "Maltby" etc... He and Clement are self-acknowledged Avalanche fans and biased as hell in their announcing. I remember once when Forsberg knocked Holmstrom down and they raved and raved about it and how difficult it is to knock Holmstrom down. Holmstrom flops at the drop of a hat. THE best thing about hockey not being on espn is not having to listen to these guys, imo. (Clement I can live with, by the way). I got to the point where I would just mute any game that was on espn. I guess it's a matter of preference but I'd prefer guys to at least know who the players were in the games and get their names right. A little intelligent hockey insight is nice also (Forseberg example above). THIS is the main problem with the league. Why on earth is he still Commish?

If we had taken a poll of every single person in the Red Wing organization before last season began and asked them what their goal was heading into the season, the vast majority, if not all, of them would have said to win the Cup. I seriously doubt if any of them would have said "We need to make it to the Western Conference Finals". So, if that was their goal and they didn't accomplish it, it's a failure. Yes, some very positive things came out of last season's playoff run; most notably their grittiness in the early rounds of the playoffs, but I assume that pretty much every person in the organization would not call last season a success. It has nothing to do with being spoiled fans, it has to do with setting goals and determining if you meet them. In life if you don't meet your goals, you've failed. And THAT is what's causing a lot of the arguments on here right now. Many people are content with last season and believe that things were good enough while many (myself included) don't view last year's run as a success and think upgrades need to be made to make the next step. P.S. I never said I expected the Wings to win the Cup every year. I said that was the GOAL. If goals aren't met, it's a failure, imo.

The first two words that popped into my head when I read the first post were: Gary Thorne I can't stand listening to him. But I would love to see hockey on ESPN again, though.

Shouldn't that be the goal? Failure to achieve your goal is just that, failure. I'm not saying it's a complete washout but it IS a failure if you don't achieve your goal. Some positive things came out of last season's postseason run, no doubt. But they still failed to achieve their goal, which was to win the Cup. I doubt if they went into the season saying, "we need to get to the wcf before we lose". P.S. I'd take Grier in a heatbeat.

You're great at basing things off one playoff run. And it makes me laugh how everyone views last year's run as such a resounding success. They LOST. To me, that's not a success, sorry. Personally, I couldn't care less about winning President's trophies (I realize they didn't do that last year either) and losing before the Stanley Cup Finals. I think that's where a lot of the disputes are coming from on here. Many seem satisfied with last year; I'm not. And yes, I believe intimidation did play a part in their loss to the Ducks. Holmstrom was a beast until he took the hit from Pronger. Very quiet afterwards, though. We can play the "if" game forever but I believe that IF the wings would have had someone to stand up to that jackass, he wouldn't have gone into Homer with his elbows so high. IF Holmstrom doesn't get hurt and continued to be a dominating force, the Wings win that series, IMO. The Sens would have been a cakewalk. Notice I didn't say that's the ONLY reason they lost to the Ducks. The Ducks did get a lot of bounces, but as Scotty once said, you make your own luck, and I was less than impressed with the officiating. There were several factors working against the Wings and I do believe intimidation was one of them. I mean, how many times did we hear Babcock preach that the Wings have to get to the net? Numerous. How many times did anyone (other than Holmstrom who took a wicked shot from Pronger as a result) even bump into Giggy? On the other end, how many times did Hasek get run? Hasek was hit repeatedly and nothing was done about it, Giggy was never hit. Coincidence? I think not.

This is my biggest concern, not so much the fighting, but the lack of size. I looked at their roster during the season two years ago and Jimmy Howard was the second biggest red wing after Lilja. That's ridiculous. Whether people like it or not, intimidation is a part of hockey and always will be. Last year Schneider was quoted as saying he liked having a "nuclear weapon" on the team when he was asked about Norton's chances of making the team. I know he's only one example of someone who is speaking his mind on the subject but I would imagine most, if not all, of the players feel that way.

Ideally, there'd be another Probert out there somewhere. Someone that could fight and play well. I heard a rumor that Hudler may go to Boogard's fight school. (kidding of course) What sucks about this post is that you make some GREAT points that I agree with 100% about hockey and then follow them up with peronsal attacks. This is a forum where everyone can state their opinions.

I'm ignoring the rest of your post that I didn't agree with and thought I'd focus on something that we actually agree on! Watching the Ducks win the Cup made me want to throw up, not because of the players, but because of Burke. Plus the fact that my original point for posting in this thread was to defend Holland this offseason. (I messed up by saying I think he's overrated, though, and that sent things spiralling out of control. I thought it would look good if a self-proclaimed Holland basher was defending him).

But that's how I feel. I guess you don't want me to have my own personal opinions if they don't agree with yours. ?????? I DO feel like Holland is overrated because he inherited a GREAT team and was able to go out and sign a ton of great players because the resources were there to do so. Do you feel he would have been as successful in a city that didn't have an almost unlimited amount of money? For example, would the Sabres have done as well with his as GM as the Wings have done since he took over? (notice also, I said he is overrated, not that he sucks). That was an exagerrated comment to make a point. I realize you can't detect sarcasm in a forum and I apologize for using it. Obviously, you and I can't run an NHL franchise. I consider myself fairly intelligent and a knowledeable hockey fan but there's no way I could run a franchise. I assume you couldn't either.