therock48880

The original question was Fedorov in his prime, which pretty much seals any debate. Feds by a rather large margin if we're only talking about his prime years. In reading those who chose Datsyuk, it seems to be more of a personal dislike of Fedorov than a matter of which player was actually better. (This is coming from a HUGE Datsyuk fan)

The simplest of back issues, such as a pinched nerve, can be debilitating to a normal person. So, for you to say his back issues are grossly overestimated, unless you have medical proof, is silly.

What a year for Shero. He loses guys like Laraque, Ruutu, Roberts, Malone, Hossa, and Conklin and replaces them with guys like Satan, Fedotenko, Cooke, and Goddard. Since Conklin wasn't needed there, they now have to trade two prospects and a pick for a 3-5 month rental of a backup goalie who makes more money. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that they are also capped out.

I agree completely. Wow.

Ok, I stand corrected. He's not a defensive liability. I just can't stand the guy so much that anything he does I rip on it. I'll try to be objective from here on out. Those who are ripping on me and telling me to get a clue, I understand, but you're basing that from one comment that I've retracted. I've watched quite a few Pens games this year compared to normal (roughly 10) because I love seeing them lose. Staal has not been the least bit impressive. He's soft in the corners and has stone hands. Youngguns, you mention he's on pace for 24 goals this year. Keep in mind that three of the goals he has came in one game. He's on pace to score 23 this year but if you subtract that game in which the Wings quit playing defense in the third period, he'd be on pace to score 17 goals. Since his offensive numbers all the through his career have been very similar, I don't understand why some think he's going to magically develop soft hands and turn into a scorer. If he'd had tons of offensive success in the minors, I would agree that could happen. Yet, he's never shown it at any level. So, basically, the bar has been set for a 3rd line checking center that can score 15-25 goals per season to be paid 4 million a year. If that's the case, Franzen should be worth 7 million. Shero sucks.

The thing about Staal is if you take away his 29 goal year a couple years ago, he has been nothing but an average hockey player at EVERY level he's played at. His numbers in the minors were not very impressive. The true aberration in his career is the year that he scored 29 goals.

Those who are saying this is a good deal for the Pens must not watch them very much. Yes, he's young. Yes, he's big. That's all he's got going for him. He has hands of stone and can't handle the simplest of passes and is a defensive liabiltiy. The reason he's a third line center instead of a first line winger for Crosby is because he can't control a pass. This is a horrible deal and sets a bad precedence for the rest of the league. Check out letsgopens.com for a more thorough evaluation of the deal. The last time I checked, the Staal thread was 17 pages long and about 90% of the Pens fans said it was a horrible deal. For a team that desperately needs wingers that can score, this deal makes no sense, unless he's trade bait. Not to mention that there are numerous rumors of a feud between Staal and Therrien.

This statement makes me think of Marc Crawford. What if Scotty had been coaching Vancouver when Bertuzzi and Co went up against the Avs? Steve Moore would still be playing hockey. (probably in the IHL). All of Crawford's teams were whiny, pissy teams. Players take on the persona of their coaches.

And there's no proof that they WON'T be a 35 point scorer either. I just keep reading about how "proven" Sammy is and I keep mentioning that Franzen was "unproven" also until he was given an expanded role. We'll never know what these kids can do until they get a chance. That's all I'm saying. This isn't a "bash Sammy" diatribe on my part, it's a "we need to see if these guys can improve the team" diatribe. Guys like Maltby and Sammy could be expendable if those two are ready for an expanded role. Look what the Pistons did when they realized Stuckey was ready to be the man. They traded a "proven" player so that Stuckey can take over next year. Helm proved last year that he is NHL ready and Mickey and Ken have both mentioned that on several occasions. The kid should NOT be in the minors. If that means giving up on a "proven" player, so be it. imo.

Just because it's the Wings and they are the defending champs, doesn't mean they shouldn't try to improve. If they can upgrade, they should do it. Look, I'm not slamming Sammy in particular. He's playing well, RIGHT NOW. However, there isn't a player on the team that's more streaky than he is. This hot streak will inevitably be followed by a 15-20 game stretch of not doing much. We know what we are going to get from Sammy. We don't know what Helm and Leino could provide and since their upside is much better than Sammy's shouldn't they get a chance? I agree with you about Maltby. I just hate the fact that a guy like Helm, who played extremely well last year in the playoffs, is relegated to the minors because of the stupid waiver system.

I'm a teacher.

True, but Franzen was "unproven" last year too until Homer got hurt. Could Leino turn out to be better than Sammy? Yup. Could he flop? Yup. Same with Helm. But to say that Sammy is the best, cheapest option out there when other options haven't been tried is silly, imo. On a related note, one thing I HATE about the current CBA is how the waiver system works. Ideally, the best players in your organization would be playing on the nhl team when they're ready. I think Helm, Ericsson, and, to a lesser extent, Leino, have proven that isn't the case. Those three guys would be cheaper and possibly better than the players they replaced on the Wings. Yet, since they don't have to clear waivers, they are sent to the minors.

Why does it have to be a "Proven option?" Sammy was unproven when he came to Detroit. Leino and Helm both have better upsides, imo.

I couldn't agree more. It's funny how the Sammy supporters are all over right now. However, he has always been VERY streaky and we'll see where they are when he goes 25 games and scores 2 points. I also love the "he has experience" argument. Yes, he has more experience than Leino or Helm but EVERYONE in the nhl was inexperienced at some point in their careers.

ZDH!!!! (when Homer's healthy) That's the only change I'd make.

I would say so. I commend him for throwing down when it was necessary. He also won that fight, although it wasn't a terribly entertaining bout.

Ok, I admit, "Destroyed" was a bit strong. He lost, though, and that was 2 seasons ago. I doubt he's any better now.

Souray DESTROYED McCarty the last time they fought. Mac was a Flame at the time.

Bye Hossa.

First of all, some people need to realize this is HYPOTHETICAL. Geez, relax a little bit. How dare someone suggest the Wings make some changes. My theory on changes is that it'd be nice to see some of the young guys up. However, loyalty to players is one thing that attracts players to Detroit and makes them willingly sing contracts for less than they could get elsewhere. Having said that, if I were Holland there is no way in hell that Helm is in GR. If it means losing a player via waivers, so be it.

Ott is quickly becoming this generations Claudia.

Maltby, McCarty, and Kopecky should be playing ahead of Leino, Helm, and Downey.

Didn't he suckerpunch Barch a couple years ago? Barch is legit. I agree that having Downey around probably wouldn't deter that giant, smelly ****** from doling out elbows to the Wings.

Mac's better off the ice? What does that mean? Are you referring to the locker room? If you are, maybe you should do a little research. Downey was LOVED by his teammates in all of the cities that he's played in and numerous Wings have stated what a positive influence he is in the locker room.

I didn't say "everyone" on here, I said "many" who feel an enforcer is not needed. There ARE many on here who feel that way. I didn't twist anything. Many feel (for example read the thread about holland saying the wings don't need an eforcer) that an effective power play can act as a deterent. I don't agree, but that's how many feel.