Wingsfan31

I think this is one of the things that really infuriates people about Holland. There was absolutely no evidence that Williams was going to repeat, let alone build on his numbers from last year. Yet, he gets the big payday, a la Boyd Devereaux, for what he might be able to do. He took a similar gamble with Sammy but at least Sammy plays a somewhat abrasive game. I wouldn't out-right waive the guy, because you're still on the hook for 2/3 of his deal, but I would look to move him for futures even, just to free up his wing for a guy like Hudler, Grigs or even possibly Ryno.

I can't imagine any GM being foolish enough to ask for Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Kindl, Kronwall, Filppula and Hudler are who I see as the likely candidates. I also wouldn't characterize Lapointe as a small move, he makes north of $2 million next season so while he's not the 30 goal guy we're looking for, his cap implications are huge. I do agree that Holland is being prudent with his picks, players and prospects. I'm sure Sharks, Ducks, Canucks and Ranger fans are gnashing their teeth as much as we are right now and it's possible none get a premier guy and everyone heads into the post season with holes.

I agree that dealing Datsyuk would be foolish. He and Zetterberg have great chemistry and we'll have to see what they can do together in the post-season; perhaps having the two of them on the same line will cause lesser-talented teams problems trying to contain them at the same time instead of on different lines, where it's easier to eliminate one talented skater when he has little help. I think the Wings need to take the same tactic they did with Sergei; roll the dice and see what happens. If he makes it to free agency, then all bets are off and you can pursue other options. But, to simply deal him, when you are a contender, for what he MIGHT do is operating from a position of weakness. As for the Euro/Russian stereotype, I think the Wings pretty much shattered that in their three Cup runs. Sergei, Kozzie, Igor, Nick, Dom and the like all showed that you don't have to be from N.A. to sack up come the post season. If anything, the questions surrounding Datsyuk are personal and not indicative of a cultural phenomenon. he simply may not be a clutch performer in the post season. I guess we'll see this year.

Meh, Carter is the same as Willy only he had more of a pedigree coming out of State. Roberts trains like Chelios does and the guys a tank; he broke his neck a few years ago and came back like nothing happened. You want a guy who brings it in the playoffs like Yzerman? Roberts is your man. The Wings have no need for Stumpel unless they unload Lang and frankly, I think the two are interchangable as a 2nd/3rd line center. I really think Smyth is not going to happen; the Oilers fans are grousing about the deal they made already, giving up a defenseman who was leading all their D in points for peanuts; if they move Smyth there'd be a riot at the Northlands Coliseum (I don't care if they do call it Rexall, it'all always be the Northlands, dammit!). Smyth will go the route of Sergei just so the organization can save face. Bert intrigues me the same way Murphy intrigued me in '97. Could a change of scenery and a different, less-bruising system rejuvinate his career? Or will he Krupp out on the Wings? Methinks Hudler is too much for a guy who hasn't played meaningful hockey in months and could be emotionally ruined. Guerin's the safe play but they'd likely want a guy like Kronner or Kindl and there is no way you give up solid d-men or d prospects for a pending UFA unless they lock him up. Even if they do, he's not 31, you're looking at one, maybe two years tops out of him before he flames out. Let me pose it this way -- if the Wings had dealt for Hull, not knowing he would be integral to winning the Cup, would we have been happy with Kronner or Kindl and a 1st for him? There is no way Tkachuk warrants a prospect and a 1st. He has the same number of goals as Homer, is a playoff bust on a scale that makes Datsyuk look productive in the post-season, is a pending UFA and is a mental case who takes bad penalties. I'd offer Willy or Sammy and a 2nd for him and tell Davidson to cram it with walnuts if that't not enough.

I disagree, Datsyuk has become a very responisble forward in his own end. He's great at picking forward's pockets on the backcheck and is back in position most of the time. In fact, I'd say his defensive play makes the chances of him signing a big contract easier to swallow. Well, that and he's part of one of the most dynamic tandems in the NHL.

Wow, I didn't realize I missed the trade deadline. The Wings have yet to make a move and everyone is writing them off. Forsberg did not fit the needs for this team. The Wings need a big, fast scoring winger, someone who can play like Shanny did 10 years ago. Williams is a waste on the 2nd line, he has zero chemistry with Lang. Hell, they could throw Hudler up instead of Williams and that line would be immediately more dangerous, even with a rookie on the wing. I guess success has spoiled this fan base. Unless the Wings go out and make the trade du jour, everyone panics. Had the Wings dealt Kronwall, Filppula, a 1st and 3rd for Foppa, everyone would be screaming about how the Wings raided the cupboard for a rental. If the Wings are able to acquire Guerin, Tkachuk or even Bert, everyone will be creaming themselves about how the Wings are a shoo-in, etc. Holland could likely make a move no one sees coming. The Oilers are meeting with Smyth's agent this week, likely to see what terms he is seeking. He is going to be a UFA, so if hey can't re-sign him and they don't think its likely they'll make a lot of noise in the post season, he might be available. The Wings are a one-trick pony right now but it's February, so they can afford to be. If they can hang around the top of the division, I like their chances head-to-head with the Preds. How many big games have players on the Preds won? How many Cup winners do the Preds have? Two, now, with Foppa. Just think, the Wings have multiple players who have more Cups than the entire Preds team. They have arguably the most dynamic tandem the in the league right now, the world's best defenseman, one of the greatest goaltenders to ever play the position and a two-time Cup winner as their back-up. I'm not one to drink the Wings kool-aid, but lets have some levity here people. This team is still poised to make some noise and its likely what ever moves they make at the deadline will only increase those odds.

Oh, I agree, but his complaining was generally contained to on the ice. I think that the majority of players complain on the ice. What irked me was Mario whining about the obstruction and whatnot and how the game wasn't fun anymore, yada yada. I'm not one of those people who think Yzerman was this infallible paragon of virtue but he was always there to answer questions, took responsibility for the team's, and his own, play and usually didn't try to obscure the issues by creating controversies are making pariahs out of the officials, which Mario certainly did do.

Again, I have to disagree with the sentiment that intangibles don't matter. You don't think that Yzerman's willingness to accept more responsibility defensively when Scotty came in had a big effect on the team and, really, the franchise? You don't think that Yzerman scoring goals against Vancouver in '02 with one knee inspired the team? Mario and Wayne were world-class whiners, not just on the ice but off it. Mario bitched and bitched about the obstruction, all Yzerman did was help lead his team to 3 Cups in that era. Crosby complains, Zetterberg puts his shoulder down and soldiers on. Ovechkin runs his mouth on the ice, Zetterberg works the corners in the offensive zone and kills penalties. These things do matter. If you've ever played hockey at a high level you know that talent is held in much less regard than leadership and sacking up in big games. Granted, none of Zetterberg, Corsby or Ovechkin have played many big games as of yet, but Hank was one of a handful of guys who actually showed up last playoffs, along with Lang and, *surprise*, a hobbled Steve Yzerman. Stats are pretty and all, but the truth is championships are generally won with qualities you can't quantify. Let me frame it this way, even with the Colts having won the Super Bowl this season, do you think the Pats would trade Brady for Manning? I rest my case.

I respect your opinion but I find it to be flawed. You fail to take into account the intangibles both Z and Lids bring to the Wings, which are the chief reasons neither would ever be traded. Lidstrom is a) the captain, b) arguably the best defenseman in the NHL and, c) the key to the Red Wings' special teams. Other players may be as talented as Nick, but none know the system as well, understand the tendancies of the Wings' players and how to work his game within the system. Likewise, Zetterberg is the future captain of this franchise, an outstanding two-way player and the face of the organization in many ways like Yzerman was. He is flat out untouchable unless you want to get into ridiculous hypotheticals like Crosby and Malkin for Zetterberg straight up. I would wager Holland won't deal him for Crosby even up. But then, people did want Yzerman traded for Yashin, so perhaps this fan base's grasp of intangibles is not as tight as one would think.

1) I would not trade Zetterberg for anyone in the league. Granted, Crosby is phenomenal and Ovechkin's an out of this world talent, but Zetterberg is clearly the most defensively responsible superstar in the NHL right now. I'll take a 30 to 40-goal, 80 to 90-point a year Selke winner over 50 goals/120 points and no defense any day of the week. 2) I will simply list the legit prospects/roster players I would part with: Hudler, Quincey, Williams, Liv, MacDonald, Lebda, Lilja, Samuelsson, Lang. Any others in the NHL, AHL or juniors either have too much potential (Flip, Kindl), are a future cornerstone (Kronwall, Howard) or a key cog of the team that simply won't be dealt (Hank, Pavel, Lids, etc). Edit: Any other youngsters (i.e. Langfeld, Bootland) have minimal trade value IMO. 3) There is no way Holland breaks up the Wondertwins at this point. He may not be able to re-sign Datsyuk, but I think you don't dare disturb that chemistry right now. Since they've been reunited, they're arguably one of the most dymanic tandems in the league. IMO, there is no way Holland deals Datsyuk unless the magnetic poles reverse, cats and dogs get along and the Pens, Washington or Atlanta become dumb enough to part with one of their superstars for a pending UFA.

I agree with GS&A on one point, which I feel is the more important: Would Sergei be a make-or-break deal for the Wings in the playoffs? I also believe he is not exactly what this team needs right now, and in a cap era, you need to be tight with the coin. Sergei might bring some speed and skill to the team, but he still lacks the size or playing style to effectively be a force in front of the net. You basically need a Holmstrom-type who plays with his face towards the goaltender. Homer's tips are nice, but rebounds are generally a lost cause with him because he's not facing the net when he's out front. Sergei is not going to do that. It's not his style and no knock on him, it's just a fact. The Wings need someone who is willing to pay the price out front, as Shanny was willing to so in '97, as Yzerman had done his whole career. They are best suited spending their limited resources on a guy who will do that, every shift he can, and effectively. It's a reason Ryan Smyth is so coveted around the league. However, given the choice between Lang and Fedorov, I'd take Sergei simply because I think he'd still be good for 60-70 points and can kill penalties. Perhaps it is something they can investigate this off-season but as the Jackets can't eat any of his salary, its a no go this season, even if hea clears waivers and the Wings were to try and pick him up the second time throught for 1/2 price, which you can bet someone else would jump all over him for $3 million, pro-rated for the what he's already been paid.

GordieSid&Ted: I agree with a lot of what you say, but to say that Sergei doesn't play the type of game the Wings ned I think is erroneous. Sergei has always been strong going to the net and always been a strong player around the net. I don't think it's fair to call him a perimeter player at all; he may have scored a lot of goals from the boards-side faceoff hashes, but that's as much a product of the the line he played on for a long time (Russian 5), that he has a booming shot and is able to be accurate with it. $6 million is FAR too much to pay for Sergei, I think everyone is in agreement with that. But, he does have an out clause in his contract and if he were to come back here for $2 million/season or so, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He still has great wheels, is responsible defensively and has that booming shot. Throw it that he's still strong on his skates and it's much easier for a center to move to winger than vice-versa and I believe the Wings could easily find a place for him on this team.

IF he were healthy, could stay healthy and would not consider going back to Sweden, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I like Schnieds and I think we would certainly miss his shot from the point but Forsberg, when healthy, it one of the most dominant forces in the league. The one thing this team lacks is a consistent offensive punch, something he would definitely bring. With Kronwall healthy, Lebda's emergence and having Markov on the team now, I think the Wings could buffer Schneider's loss some. As for the "hated Avs" argument, how many people hated Chris Chelios before he became a Wing? Long before the Avs even existed, he was a thorn in the Wings' side, trading devastating hits with Vladdy and generally making life miserable for the Wings' forwards. It seems like all was forgotten after that deal. I think people's memories would shorten significantly if Forsberg were to become as Red Wing as well.

Lang's production is the result of a team with three playmaking centermen and no scoring wingers. Centermen by their nature "float", their job is to cover the slot in the defensive zone and roam the offensive slot, looking to get open or ragging the puck until a winger gets open. This is hockey 101, people. Wingers by definition do the bulk of the grunt work and skate the most, forechecking in the corners, going to the net and backchecking the opposing wingers. Hank and Datsyuk play a hybrid style of center, like Fedorov, where they take the puck to the net strong and generate more scoring on their own. Lang plays much like Adam Oates did, another "lazy" center who made a living floating in the offensive zone with the puck until Brett go open for the one-timer. Look at Gretzky, he was a lazy floating centerman who generally parked his ass behind the net and waited for a winger or d-man to get open. While he was obviously a prolific goal scorer, he generally played a traditional centerman's role. Lang simply plays a similar style without the ability to score at will.

I completely agree. Lang fits in nowhere on this team and only serves to screw the lines up right now. He'd be a good fit if a) the Wings didn't have two of the best play-making centers in hockey under the age of 27, and b ) if the Wings didn't emphasize defensive play. Let's face it, he has great hands, can use his size when he wants to but mostly is Ray Sheppard at center; slow, lazy and opportunistic around the net. I also agree Pheonix is a good place to start looking to make a deal. Gretzky needs a veteran centerman to sure up his roster, they have a glut of young, big players and some good defensemen as well (Paul Mara anyone). The Wings clearly need a scoring winger with size and a mobile, stay-at-home d-man who can move the puck a bit. Easy to say, harder to acquire. I would opine they swing a deal with the Blackhawks for Aucoin or St. Louis for Brewer. Rumors abound from both cities they are available for the right price and both teams are young, terrible and in need of a talented, veteran centerman.

To my knowledge, Schneider never played for the Isles, only the Rags, Leafs and Kings.