YoungGuns1340

If this is Datsyuks best season, then I'd take Fedorov's best season over Datsyuk's in a heartbeat. With that said, I think Datsyuk will remain effective longer than Fedorov did, and I much prefer Datsyuks attitude to Fedorov's. Not to mention, I'd take Datsyuks moves over anyone elses in the history of the NHL, outside of Pavel Bure.

I've always maintained that Flip is simply one of those guys that is more valuable to another team than he is to the Wings. Hes superfluous. Hes offers us nothing that we don't already have in spades. Does that make him unvaluable? Not at all. Who wouldn't want a skilled, fast, two-way center who isn't particularly soft or small? A TON of teams. But to the Wings at this point, there are other players who give us a more balanced, powerful, dynamic presence up front, and they need to be kept before we make accommodations for Flip.

Why don't people ever stop and realize that hockey players are normal people too. Of course its taking a long time. How would you feel if you were basically contracting yourself to stay in one place, make one salary, be with one company, and essentially create the financial base for yourself and your family for the next 10, 20, 40, or even 60 years? Hank has to think about Emma, their future, having kids, and what hes going to be doing when hes around 40 years old and hes career will likely be over. Hank in general seems like a sensitive, pensive guy, family kind of guy. From what we've seen of him throughout his time with the Wings, hes a very down to earth, practical guy. Hes not going to impulsively sign whatevers put in front of him. My guess is, every legitimate offer thats fielded his way by Holland and co. he takes his time to mull over. I doubt hes being difficult, he just wants to be sure. And can you blame him? I'd take all the time in the world to make sure I felt right about a decision like that.

In terms of your assessment of the Wings road to the cup, while I appreciate the frankness, all teams that win the cup rely on a little luck. You don't think the Ducks benefited from the fact that Ottawa was unprepared by coasting through the East and that Detroit was without 2 of their top 3 Dmen? Any team will tell you, before you start talking about your teams qualifications for winning the cup, you have to be healthy, and you have to have luck. As for the Wings this year, while my heart really (obviously) wants us to repeat, my mind says its doubtful. So I'm torn. While anything can happen, I'd say the odds are against us at this point. The defense has been incredibly inconsistent, and has been a weakness more often than it has been a strength, while the goaltending has been shaky. Even though our 4th line is all but absent, I have no problem with our offense going into the playoffs. Unfortunately, no offense is going to be able to carry what appears top be an average goaltender and a well underperforming defense against a very tough Western Conference. Notice, however, that I said the odds are against us at this point. If Holland pulls a rabbit or two out of his hat that shores up some of our problems, I'd have a change of heart. But with this roster, I'm not going to bet on the Wings to repeat. Edit: I forgot to add: Let the "O ye of little faith" debates begin!

I didn't read through the thread, but I think the OP's point was that our D has been so bad over the course of the year that if we aren't fixing the defense, its going to take a great goaltender to keep us in the game.

You're missing the point entirely. We're talking about the cap space AT THE DEADLINE, not for next season.

How are the sharks "overconfident" and how does playing with a chip on your shoulder mean that? They come to play every night. They are incredibly comparable to the Wings of last year AND how the Wings were playing last year. In fact, I would fashion a guess that they're BETTER than the Wings were last year, simply because they're bigger, yet are playing up to the same standard in almost every other way that the Wings were last year. All this "the Sharks will choke" talk sounds like a bunch of insecure Wings fans trying to comfort themselves now that we're confronted by a legitimate Western opponent. You don't think people were saying the same things about the Wings in '97 after the '95 and '96 debacles? If anything, the Sharks simply believe in themselves, which is a key ingredient in winning a cup. With the way the Wings have mailed it in on several occasions this year, I would be more inclined to call them overconfident than the Sharks.

Fisher and Filppula are very similar players, with Filppula having the edge in age, and Fisher having the edge in physicality. In general, I'd take Fisher over Filppula simply because this team could use some more guys who like to hit, but not at Fisher's price tag. He's overpaid as of now and would only make our cap situation worse.

Yes. Not only would some GM offer more than 2.6M for Hudler, but Holland would easily match an offer for 2.6M as well. And aside from the fact that you're an idiot, and not taking into account the fact that Hudler can be taken to arbitration to avoid being signed to an offer sheet, he would easily be re-signed by Ottawa or any other team, which only furthers his value. You have to be really, really, really stupid to think that Hudler's value at the trade deadline is a 2nd round pick. Theres absolutely no other reason why you would think thats logical. Then again, maybe the fact that you're not logical has something to do with it. Not to mention, my 2nd round pick evaluation of Neil came with the disclaimer "at most." Hudler's "at most" value would be through the roof from a desperate team.

Its not a requirement that the 2nd round pick is for this years draft, you know.

The thing is, losing Lidstrom affects our transition game, which is to say it affects BOTH our offense and our defense. If we swap Lidstrom for Luongo, it may shore up the defensive aspect of things, but our transition game and outlet passing are still affected. I also don't see the point of adding an elite goaltender, but the only way it would really make sense is if we were losing a guy that was an elite defensive defenseman a la Scott Stevens. Then, the case may be made that we need a goaltender to shore that up, given that this hypothetical defense lost probably had little impact on our offense and puck-possession.

I don't think Holland is going to trade his 2nd for a guy like Neil. Lebda and a 3rd for Neil and a 5th sounds closer.

You guys are all off your rocker. Neil is a UFA and he hasnt had a particularly productive year. You think Neil is going to be worth more than what Brad Stuart was? Bulls***. Neil is going to command a 2nd round pick alone at most. You don't trade top 6 RFAs for UFAs with 6 points in 37 games. And for those of you keeping track, yes Neil has fewer points than Kopecky (although thats not to say Kopecky would land Neil. In general, Kopecky isn't going to be traded). To give you an idea, Matt Cooke went for Matt Pettinger. Adam Foote went for a conditional. Modry went for a 3rd. Heut went for a 2nd. Fedorov went for a prospect. Backman went for a 4th. MAB went for a 3rd. Neil isn't heads and shoulders above these guys just cause hes tough. Not to mention, if you look at the majority of playoff bound teams, their top need isn't a 4th liner. No one is going to be shelling out assets for a 4th liner. They'll save those for the impact players. Hudler + for Neil + is about the most retarded thing I've ever heard on this board. And Lebda isn't trash. Just because hes a #6 guy on this team doesn't mean hes that to every team. Hes an upgrade over Lee and Picard for the Senators, who are holding down their depth spots, is a puck-mover which Ottawa is lacking throughout the back end, and is signed on the cheap for a couple more years. Hes not trash - he has value. Kopecky, however, is useless to any and all teams.

Trading Lebda DOES help the cap issue. According to Matt, the Wings can afford to add a player's non-prorated salary of 1.7M without having to trade anything. Consider that the Wings currently have about 400M in cap space as it stands, and having various LTIR players and not calling anyone up, they've bankrolled further salary (literally pennies, but it adds up). Not a lot, but enough to add Neil's 1.1M salary without trading anyone and definitely enough after Lebda's salary is cleared off the books. Edit: Just running some numbers, if the Wings added Neil around March 1st, his pro-rated salary would be about 225k. Meaning, adding Neil would only add 225k to the overall cap number. Lebda would clear about 125k. The overall addition of Neil, after trading Lebda, would literally only be adding about 100k in salary overall.

What are you ranting about? Trade threads come up all year round. This isn't because the Sharks beat us - its because the Red Wings are a franchise that perrenially strengthens their roster at the deadline in some way, shape, or form. This is just another place to discuss issues that have been at hand all year round. Can we get better defensively? Can we strengthen our 4th line? Can we adjust our roster so as to alleviate some of the cap pressure facing us next season?

I don't think Maltby, Meech or Kopecky get traded. I could see Maltby and Kopecky being scratched, but they wont get traded. Meech makes less than 500k and is versatile while being more than adequate at each position. Maltby is staying on because of the loyalty factor and Kopecky stays so Marian is happy. Trading Lebda to clear some space makes a lot of sense, though. So does adding Neil, although I've heard from Sens fans that theres a good chance he'll be re-signed. Then again, it might just be that they're running their mouths. At any rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Ottawa took a Lebda for Neil swap. Lebda is a decent depth guy and a good puck-moving Dman. They're short on those, and Lebda is signed for a year or two more at a non-factor cap hit.

That thought actually crossed my mind, too. Antropov and Filppula play such a similar game that it wouldn't be any loss - in fact, with Antropov being half a foot taller and the more productive guy, it would be a bonus for the playoffs. On top of that, it provides somewhat of a "cover your ass" measure for Holland. If Holland knows Franzen is intent on going to free agency prior to July 1st, he can go after Antropov, likely the cheaper option.

Just because this team won last year, doesn't mean its going to come up with an identical performance. There are some issues with this team that can be addressed. No reason to take the risk of things "sorting themselves out" when you can make a beneficial move. Even if it means making a Jamie Rivers - Cory Cross type of exchange, something will be done.

Hmm. Its not going to be anyone on the Canes, since Illitch doesn't do business with Karmanos. The only guys I could see are Moore or Mayers. Even though Mayers has another year on the contract, Holland has liked him for a few years now. I guess it could be Antropov, but we don't need him and he'd probably be expensive. I just remember there being rumors about the Wings having interest in Antropov.

Trust me, I'd drool over moving Rafalski and his fat salary for Volchenkov +. But with Rafalski having the NTC (which drives me up the effing wall), its a no-can-do.

Whats with all the Stuart hate? Hes a #4 Dman - just a step above #5. The fact that hes been poor defensively is because Babcock is ridiculously stubborn with his D pairings, and doesn't realize that Stuart and Kronwall are the two players on this team most likely to make a mistake when they're pressured. The combination, at this point, needs to be changed. Line combos don't work out forever. If you put Stuart on the block, he isn't likely to attract a lot of interest. Kronwall, on the other hand, could attract a decent amount of interest and, frankly, is overrated. Outside of his offense and rare open-ice hits, the guy doesn't excel. Hes not smart in his own zone and his strength overall leaves something to be desired. In particular, its his decesion-making that I question. For how smart this guy was billed to be, hes been a letdown. And unfortunately, thats not one of those things you can fix. I know I've said it before, but I really wouldn't mind seeing Kronwall traded for Volchenkov, with some spare parts thrown in to even things out. Volchenkov is a bona fide physical force, hits constantly, is very strong and blocks shots like a machine. He's a blue collar hockey player. Loves to get his hands dirty. That kind of guy, in my mind, is what the Wings could really use long-term. What he does isn't pretty, but he does all the little things right. The Wings have a good future and present with puck-movers and offensive defenseman - Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kindl, Ericsson, and Meech all provide something in the way of offense or outlet passing - but the defensive aspect of things is a little weak. Kronwall, Flip, and Lebda are all tradeables of value in my mind. Yeah, guys like Kopecky, Maltby, etc are "tradeable," but they won't net us anything of value. And yes, Lebda does have some value. Theres always a market for defensive depth at the deadline.

Stuart's NTC kicks in the last 2 years of his contract. He wanted an NTC for the entire duration of the contract, and Holland didn't want to give him one at all. But the reason Stuart wanted the NTC in the first place is because his step-daughter is in high school right now, and he didn't want to have to move her out of high school when she was a junior/senior. Thats why his NTC kicks in in the last 2 years of the contract. This was all in the Free Press the day after he signed the contract.

People are getting way too carried away with this 10 year rumor. Thats all it is - a rumor. The Wings only signed Pavel Datsyuk to a 7 year deal - the longest one in Red Wings history - and thats because hes a durable guy whos not reckless. Zetterberg has a different history, and Holland knows that. You don't need a contract to go for 10 years in order to bring the cap hit down. 6-8 years on the deal is plenty long to alleviate some cap issues. All of these articles say "possibly" as long as 10 years. Yes - they could also be possibly as short as two years. It could also possibly be worth 6M a year or 11M a year. Doesn't mean its going to happen.

I don't buy the "defense hasn't been as good in front of Osgood" argument. To begin with, Conklin has faced more shots than Osgood has on average this season, and secondly, the defense is going to have a harder time when the goalie is giving up so many rebounds. THAT is the reason, if anything, that the defense looks more chaotic in front of Osgood. Osgood's bugaboo this season has been rebounds, rebounds, rebounds.

Phoenix and other small market teams get plenty of undue help as it stands. If they can't cut it despite being supported by big market teams, they shouldn't have a franchise. As far as I'm concerned, the cap is a good thing. The NHL is much more competitive than it was in the past, and no one gets dogged for "buying cups." On top of that, NHL organizations now put more effort into getting the best bang for their buck, and its shown up on the ice. Being a complete player is becoming more and more a staple for teams, and its only improved the athleticism of guys across the board. The only problem I have is that lowering the cap is going to result in a ridiculous disparity between salaries across the board for pre- and post-cap salaries, which could have an affect on the lockerroom. Nobody wants to know that Brian Campbell is being paid nearly 8M a season while a "max out" price for a guy like Patrick Kane is 5M. The NHL should re-instate the CBA as is, but should push for another roll-back in prices. Maybe not a 24% roll-back, but a 10-15% roll-back would be helpful and alleviate some of the chaos thats going to come with the cap decrease. Its not like teams with payrolls of 50M+ can just ship off a few large contracts to teams with 20M in cap space. The only teams that have the cap space to take advantage of valuable players coming via cheap trade don't have the organizational money to do it.