YoungGuns1340

The playoffs will answer that question.

Its not a question of "bringing back players." Its a question of an overall unwillingness to trade players value for value. To take a calculated risk to get some balance into a team that desperately needed it. The only off-season deals I had a problem with were those of Filppula, Downey and McCarty. Stuart, to some extent, but I really don't see him as a problem. Lilja wasn't a big deal either.

What do you not understand about that? Its something that has been wrong with the Wings for YEARS. They go through cycles where they win and grow unmotivated. Then you bring in new, fresh faces, and just like that they're playing with hunger and desire. Why do you think shedding guys like Shanny and Steve made such a big difference? And bringing in guys like Stuart and Drake? This isn't a hard concept to grasp. People just must have short memories. Does anyone else remember the thread that ripped Chris Pronger apart for making a pre-playoff comment about "oh my god I can't believe the playoffs are here. It seems like just yesterday we were hoisting the cup?" Motivation is not something you just turn on. Hard work isn't something you can just suddenly have the drive to do game in and game out. Where do you think the term "Stanley Cup Hangover" came from. Why do you think the only team to repeat in the last 15 years was also "ironically" fighting for fallen teammates and organization members who would never play another game of hockey in their lives again?

I wasn't talking top notch goalies. In fact, I'm not a member of the club that says having a top 10 goalie is going to fix our problems. Our problems stem from motivation and defense. Both those issues can be addressed without adding a goalie. In fact, Holland himself said last year - when the media was questioning whether the Wings could carry Osgood to a cup - that if you have an All-Star team overall, you don't need an All-Star goalie. And hes right. Too much emphasis is placed on the goaltending position as the be all and end all of a good hockey team. And I can't think of a single good fit for a goaltender here, despite the ones mentioned here, which can pretty much be attributed to a "grass is greener on the other side" approach. Anderson, Vokoun, Bryzgalov, and Halak would not do any better with the Wings than Osgood or Conklin are. They don't have the ego to withstand the pressure of the spotlight combined with a team playing incredibly poor defense. Thomas won't be traded. Backstrom is a decent option but we don't have a possible 6M to tie up in goaltending next year. The Wings won't trade Osgood, and Backstrom would demand around 4M. I will, however, be willing to jump on the "goaltender as savior" bandwagon once Lidstrom retires. There will never be another Nick Lidstrom, and if there is, we probably won't draft him, and the number one place to compensate for Listrom's loss will be in net.

This is no new secret. The guys said last year that they appreciated Downey's presence on the team. Someone can bust out the quotes if they've got them. Fact of the matter is, Downey is an after-thought to a team that lets the puck find its way into the back of their net more than 3 times a game. If you want to have an enforcer on the squad, you have to get the most out of your other 11 players up front, especially in your bottom 3, because hes probably not gonna take more than a few speciality shifts. Unfortunately, it takes Draper, Maltby, and Kopecky combineed to have about the effectiveness of one solid grinder, so its just not efficient to have Downey in the lineup right now. I dont like it either, but I'm not Holland.

Depends on the draft pick.

Of the 29 other teams in this league, NONE of them have a guy on their roster who won the cup last year. While I don't think Hossa has been the best fit here, I think Holland made the right decision in adding a guy who wanted the cup enough to take a paycut. Where Holland really f***ed up was bringing back basically the entire cup-winning roster, adding only one new skater. He essentially ensured that we have a cup hangover this year. Holland obviously didn't learn his lesson. You don't stick with a bunch of aging veterans who have won the cup time and time again and don't have any motivating factor to give it their all anymore. We saw this when we let guys like Shanny and Steve go. Theres a reason why guys like Dan Cleary, Dallas Drake, Darren Helm, and Val Filppula have been playoff heroes for the Wings. They weren't part of the insular community of guys who had won it all and done it all. If Holland wants to make a move, he can. He just has to be creative through trading and he has to take a calculated risk - neither of which hes inclined to do. I love Holland, and still think he is one of the best GMs in the league, if not the best, but lets face it - Holland conducts his business in the safety of the off-season unless it comes in the form of giving up a 2nd round pick at the deadline or a Sean Avery package. I can think of 4 or 5 trades off the top of my head that Holland could pull off without going over the cap, without giving up the future, and addressing crucial needs that we have now, and will continue to benefit us in the future. The question is, does the Detroit Red Wings organization have the balls to let go of value to get value? Probably not.

I don't really see the value in that. I'd take a different approach. We need to trade some bigger names, as a benefit to us this season - in terms of players who have more fight in their game - and to the future. 1. Any team: Lebda(.65) DET: 4th/5th round pick 2. OTT: Kronwall(3), Kopecky(.5) DET: Volchenkov(2.5), Neil(1.1) Now, realistically, neither of these trades happen for two reasons. 1) Holland NEVER makes trades that involve any semblance of a risk 2) Hossa would be pissed if we traded his best bud Kopecky, another reason way our loyalty factor is screwing us over. BUT if by chance Holland did have the balls to make a move, then the Wings have more cap flexibility, more energy and physicality up front, and more physicality (yes, Volchenkov is more physical than Kronwall) and a greater defensive presence. Volchenkov is one of the best young shutdown Dmen in the league and a type of player that Detroit hasn't seen since Fischer ca. '02. Hes 11th in the league in hits with 82 and 4th in the league in blocked shots with 78 - both in just 27 games. The Wings ship out 4.15 in salary, and take on 3.6M in salary. That allows Detroit room to either 1) Bench Maltby and bring up Helm or 2) Bench Meech (who would be splitting games with Cheli in place of Lebda) and bring up Ericsson. Or both, if the nhlscap projections are correct and we have an extra 375k in addition to the 550k we'd gain in a trade like this. So basically, then you have a team that is assembled as follows: Homer - Datsyuk - Hossa Hudler - Hank - Franzen Sammy - Flip - Cleary Neil - Helm - Draper Maltby Lidstrom - Volchenkov Rafalski - Stuart Lilja - Ericsson Chelios - Meech Osgood Conklin If you ask me, thats an even deeper, bigger, more physical, younger, hungrier, better defensively, more energetic lineup than the one we have now.

I dont know. At this point, I don't really care about Forsberg as hes become a non-factor due to the teams he choses to play with, but I kind of admire him for not giving up. God knows the Wings could use a guy with this kind of drive in the lineup.

Its time to offer Kirk Maltby the "Joey Kocur video coach" option, and hire Drapes as a consultant or as a faceoff specialst coach. While Maltby and Draper aren't useless, they're basically not doing anything any other player can't do. Kopecky should be waived, Maltby should be scratched, and Draper should stay, as a winger in a faceoff/Pking role only. I really think its time people should start to take the lack of an energy line seriously. We have 3 scoring lines and the Almost Useless Line. If you don't think the lack of a true, checking, energy line is going to come back and bite us in the ass in the playoffs, you are dead wrong. For a team whos #1 problem is work ethic, energy, and motivation, a proper energy line is the best and simplest step in the right direction.

I said this after last nights game. Lilja should be bumped up. Hes played with Lidstrom before, he can do it now that hes playing the best hockey of his career.

Those of you saying that Chelios wasn't a dirty player should probably not comment about him, because you probably never saw him play during his younger years. Chelios had some really, really nasty plays that he used on a regular basis. He was regarded as a dirty player during a team where dirty play was allowed to slide much more than it is now. The comparison to Chelios and Pronger is incredibly solid.

Its not what Im drinking, its what Im watching. You can talk about numbers all day, and I'll talk about hockey. Any HOCKEY fan who watches the game without the homer glasses knows Pronger is playing better than Lidstrom is right now and its not even close.

How many teams have 30 game-long defensive lapses?

Well no goalie has a defense BEHIND them, but yeah, actually Thomas has damn near the best defense in front of him in the league. Luongo, on the other hand, is one of the best goalies in the league, and no one is saying Osgood is that, and Anderson is doing what many career back-ups have done in their day - riding the high of being the hero for a struggling starter as a career back-up.

And as osgood's #1 fan has mentioned many times over on this board, he was also nominated the Isles MVP one year by the Isles org.

Jesus I am glad I'm not the only one who notices this. The Wings take FOREVER to clear the puck. They'll make 3 or 4 cross-ice passes or hold onto the puck looking for the perfect play until the oppositions forechecker is all over them. Fixing that alone would probably cut our defensive mistakes in half.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lilja get bumped up to play with Lidstrom. Not in minutes of course, but with the way Lilja is playing this year, he might be a better suited pair for Lidstrom, which would be a great line to put out against the other teams top unit. Am I the only one who remembers that the two used to play together? It might be a decent option to shake things up.

You play some good defense to give him some confidence. Osgood goes into every game bearing the brunt of giving up 3 goals a game even before hes given up 3 goals. I played goalie for 2 sports competitively (neither hockey, but the mentality is similar), and it doesnt matter whos responsible for the goal OR the loss, you still feel like its you. Thats Osgood right now. Great skills, no confidence. Same thing happens with forwards - the puck stops goin in for him, and he starts to look worse and worse. The only reason we're picking on Osgood is because he basically the only one at his position.

If we put together 60 minutes against any team, its a guaranteed W by more than a goal.

I wouldn't say Lilja chases the puck around. Hes usual the one making the simple plays. If you ask me, Lilja has actually been our best defenseman in terms of defense overall. And why? Because he makes the simple play.

They do. On paper, theres no other team that can compare. Even San Jose. But the difference is performance.

Edit: see you meant Lebda. If we move Lebda, we should have room to bring up Ericsson or room to make yet another trade that has positive cap differential. For example, if you were to trade Lebda for a pick. Then turn around and trade Kronwall for Volchenkov and Neil, Lebdas cap space makes that possible.

Hmm...thats strange. Cause I never see you post anywhere else but in GDTs to come in and defend your beloved Wings from ANY negativity - even if its deserved. And considering the fact that you're virtually threatening me with vicious physical assault AND using hyperbole to defend your arguments, you're only strengthening my suspicions. Edit: Yeah. I read all your GDT posts. All you do is verbally attack people who post any criticism against the Wings.

I meant in terms of roster changes. Not overall. A goalie isn't going to help us at all with anything we have to trade, except for our star players, which obviously isn't going to happen. It would take a guy like Lundqvist or Luongo to help make up for our defensive mistakes.