YoungGuns1340

...cause he wants to do everything he can to keep winnin' those Lady Byng trophies!

Thats a waste of Hossas talent.

IMO, Hudlers placement on this team has a lot more to do with our lack of a legitimate 2nd line. Hudler isnt going to excel when hes being centered by Filppula on the 2nd line with Cleary or Samuelsson as his counter winger, or even Franzen centering him with one of the other guys mentioned as his counter-winger. IMO, the reason why Hudler excels on the 4th line is because hes able to take charge of the 4th line and can dictate the offensive play more easily. Despite not centering the line, Hudler was allowed to sort of take charge of the line. Something thats hard to do as a winger on a regular top 6 line where your center is typically the focal point and distributor, but easy to do when you're playing with a rookie (Helm). On the 2nd line, Hudler has to play to both Franzen and Filppulas dictations, neither of which are conducive to Hudlers style of play. Filppulas primary focus is still defense, and his offensive instincts aren't developed enough for a guy like Hudler who knows where to go to receive the pass or to take the shot. If you're center isn't aware of knowing where you're going to go, due to his lack of offensive foresight, you're offensive instincts are going to go by the wayside. This is similar in a way to Franzen, who likewise doesn't have as developed offensive instincts as Hudler, and takes more of a simplistic approach to offense, or relies on his own body/strength to get the offensive done. Neither of these styles of play are conducive to Hudler's game, which is centered around his offensive instincts. Unfortunately offensive instincts aren't always standouts, as dazzling moves, blazing speed, and bulldozer strength are what gets noticed, but plenty of players have made careers out of their offensive instincts. Robert Lang and Brett Hull are two that come to mind. And although some of you will scream your heads off about Brett Hulls shot being his bread and butter, he wouldn't have scored 700 goals if he didnt see the ice as well as he did and know where to go to take the shot. Now, Im not saying Hudler is the next Brett Hull - far from it. But what I am saying is you can do a lot if you have good offensive instincts. Its because of that that Hudler would likely be a good fit for a guy like Hank. He'll know where to go to receive the pass, or to be able to take a high-percentage shot, and Hank will know where he is (and be able to) get the puck to him. And of course, all the while Franzen is creating traffic. Therefore its both apples to oranges and a blanket statement to say "Hudler doesn't do well on the 2nd line" when he'll now be centered by an elite talent as opposed to a defense-first youngster.

Hudler having to overcome his size has always been somewhat overblown. If he can score 40+ points as a midget, to suggest his size is/was holding him back is to suggest that his talent alone should net him 50-60+ points, and thats still with depreciated ice time from that which is typical for a potential 2nd line forward. That is to say, if you gave Hudler the ice time of an average 5-7 foward, he would score around 48-54 points. And if you were to suggest that his size was holding him back on top of that, then you're saying as a 23 year old he could've likely net around 60-65 points. Consider that type of production as a 23 year old is Datsyuk and Zetterberg-esque territory, I'd venture a guess that the only thing holding back Hudler from his would-be production is his ice time, as something along the lines of 48-54 points seems entirely plausible for a guy of Hudlers talent and stage of career. ..and I hope you get what I'm saying, cause Im not sure that was really clear..

I agree with everyone else on your assessment of Filppula. Not only is he booked for the 3rd line, but Babcock is probably becoming more realistic about Flips offensive development (if he thought Filppula had it in him, he'd likely have put him on the 2nd line). Not only will Flip not be seeing enough minutes to pot 70+ points with his mediocre offensive instincts, he'll be featured in shutdown and defense-primary roles. Especially when you take into consideration the fact that Filppula was an afterthought as a PP center last season, getting spotty 7/8 time as a PP forward, but now hes only bumped further down the chart with Hudler and Franzen running with their PP time, and Hossa being added to the list. Whereas guys like Franzen and Hudler will have their even strength time supplemented with PP time. Filppula will likely have his supplemented with PK time. If anything, its much more likely that we'll see Hudler closer to 70+ points than Flip. And please note I said closer. I'd expect guys like Hudler and Franzen to fall into the 50-60 point category.

I can't wait 'till Tampa Bay gets its chance to host!!! Oh wait..

GST, your points can easily be proven conversely as well. Which is to say, I don't see where either opinion is right, but rather that both opinions are equal in value. But just to play to the other side... Your scenario of Nick playing for New Jersey actually has a current offensive comparison, in Washington. In New Jersey, you'd have the best Dman on a 2nd tier team, at least where offense is concerned. In Washington, you have exactly that in terms of offense. The best forward in the league on a 2nd tier team, where defense is concerned. And where did it get them? Where you would expect a 2nd tier team to land: squeaking into the playoffs (in terms of performance, not seeding) and getting quickly ousted. Fact of the matter is, in this era, defense thus far has proven more viable than offense. Of course the era of the sport is going to dictate which is more important, but as of now, the fact that Pittsburgh only got anywhere when Orpik played his best games ever, Staal and Hossa were able to help out on the back-end, and Gonchar decided to have a career year (coming in 4th in Norris votes), and Fleury similarly playing his best speaks to this. Where was Pittsburgh when these defensive factors weren't coming together? Ousted in the first, despite absolute prime talent in the offensive ranks. The same can be said for Anaheim, who had phenomenal defense and adequate offense when they won the cup. Detroit itself is a difficult example to use because the team itself is unmatched in the NHL due to its great offense, great defense, and similarly, great defensive offense, and great offensive defense. Theres more I'd like to address about your posts, but unfortunately I dont have the time (and shouldn't have gotten caught on this board mid-day on a workday anyways.. )

Thats a terrible way to look at it GST. Basically what you're saying is that Paul Coffey is a much better defenseman than Lidstrom, simply because he put up "monster numbers". The fact of the matter is this: Lidstrom is the best at his position defensively. AND hes the best at his position offensively. So if you wanted to correlate that to AO, that would require AO to not only have been the Art Ross winner, but to have had a chance at a Selke nomination, or even have his name mentioned in the same breath as top-notch defensive forwards. Which, consequently, is also why few people would say Coffey was a superior Dman to Lidstrom.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Chicago, but I do expect them to be on par with the Nashville team we've seen in the past few years, hovering around a 6-9 seed. To me, whats going to make to make or break them is neither Huet or Campbell, but the development of Seabrook, Keith, Fugli, Kane, and Toews. The leadership is also quite suspect. As we know, Denis Savard is a fire-breather, and I question how the young guys are going to respond without a few hardened vets on the roster to give them some feedback in dealing with demanding and critical coaches with huge tempers.

Teams dont repeat because of a long season? Thats BS. Then I suppose teams that go to the Finals dont go on to win the cup in the following season? Last time I checked, Pittsburgh was playing up until the same time we were. Might as well throw their names out of Stanley Cup contention... The main reason for the lack of repeats that is usually accepted as the univesal #1 reason is the drive. The Red Wings were able to do it in '98 because they were backed by incredible motivation in winning it for Vladdy and Sergei. Its only human to think back to how grueling the road to the Stanley Cup was and think "am I really up for it again?"..."is the emotional rollercoaster worth it?" You have to have incredible drive, motivation and a competitive attitude to have what it takes to repeat. Wings fans know better than most that its the drive that can beat out the talent any day of the week.

Don't bet on it. Its been a while since the ASG invitees were actually all worthy of attending. Rick Nash? Bill Guerin? C'mon...

Do you have reading problems? Learning Disabilities? I JUST said Selanne was a 40 goal scorer, 90 point guy a few seasons ago. Then you tell me that 2 years ago he had 48 goals and 46 assists? Is there something you can't connect there, buddy? And similarly, Selanne didn't win the cup all on his lonesome. His team did. One player does not a Stanley Cup earn. Secondly, the token folks that want Shanny and Fedorov back don't expect them to net 40 goals, throw big hits, or nab 100+ points by flying through the neutral zone. Whenever anyone wants Fedorov or Shanahan back - and there are very few Wings fans who actually think those additions would be a good idea, especially where Shanny is concerned - they expect them to play well below the level they did when they were Wings. Again, reading comprehension here is key when assessing other people's posts. Thirdly, and once again this is READING COMPREHENSION 101 here. I said nothing about Ducks fans. I said something about the Ducks - which denotes the team - and their problems; problems meaning a GM that might jump ship, having salary cap issues, likely having to trade players at a lower value than is typical, and the fact that their scoring will once again be lacking. That has nothing to do with Ducks fans. Now, I did use the word "fans", but in conjunction with the phrase "of older players". And you, in fact, are backing up my point by using the examples of folks that like Fedorov and Shanahan. When people are FANS OF OLDER PLAYERS, as I stated, this encompasses ALL OLDER PLAYERS. That means Selanne, Sakic, Fedorov, Shanahan, Chelios, Brind'amour, etc. Any older player you can think of. Not just older players on the Ducks. Fans of those players are often under the illusion that those players are going to play at a high pace forever simply because they had a stellar year at 36, 37, or even older, simply because, as you state in your post, they have the blinders on. However, NOWHERE in my post did I say that was a characteristic of Ducks fans and Duck fans only (again, nowhere in my post is the phrase "Ducks fans" even written). I would say - and personally do believe - that such is going to be the case with Nick Lidstrom. Everyone expects him to be a Norris winner until the day he dies, but fact remains that there were many occasions in this years playoffs where he didnt look like himself, which could easily indicate the slippery slope. And I'm guessing - as is the case with saying I expect Selanne to start on that downward slope - that if I were to suggest the same about LIdstrom, I would be lambasted for it. So bring it on. ...but again, as I apparently need to reiterate every point I made in my previous point in laymen's terms, older players go down hill fast, whether its due to the body simply aging, or the propensity for injuries. And expecting Selanne to be the bona fide All-Star winger that he was a few seasons ago is an easy expectation to have, but not necessarily a guaranteed outcome as you would expect with someone in the 28-32 range.

Actually my source was OK himself..

Seniority rules. Fischer was better than Hatcher for the Wings, but he still took Fischers #2. Hank > Hes Lazy And He Sucks, but he still took Hanks #20.

This doesn't phase me. Among other problems that the Ducks have, fans of older players always seem to forget how quick these guys go down hill. Chelios is a prime example. One year hes a Norris candidate, two years later he's not even among the top 4 on his team. Sakic is another example, well over a PPG average and 100 points one year, and then injuries abound and a sub PPG rating later. And while thats not to say Sakic is going down hill from here, its quite easy to illustrate with examples of other players. Towards the end of a hockey career, its a slippery slope. And after a short post-season and less than half a season of regular play, who knows how his production is going to go. Either way, this isn't the 40 goal, 90 point Selanne of a few years ago.

Yeah, which is why I didn't include Kronwall as a comparison. Signing Kronwall to a 3M contract at the time is akin to signing Meszaros to a 5M deal now. The 4M at what? 6 years? is a much more reasonable price for Meszaros, especially considering the term. And I guess I was right about Tampa Bay being the frontrunner...

My favorite part was where someone backed up Campbell's credibility by using his All-Star Game appearance as backing. I guess Bill Guerin is an All-Star too.

Thought this article was pretty interesting: http://tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?id=...os=topStory_nhl . It lists the NHL's top 25 players by trade value (according to Scott Cullen), and the one Red Wing to make the list is Pavel Datsyuk, at #5. If Holland can follow up with a similar contract for Zetterberg, I can imagine he would rank similiarly. #5 Player: Pavel Datsyuk Position: C Team: Detroit Red Wings Age: 30 Contract Expires: 2014 Salary Cap Hit: $6.7M Comment: More than just a magician with the puck, Datsyuk has proven he can get the job done in the playoffs and he's improved dramatically as an all-around player.

P.S. The frontrunner is neither Phoenix nor Atlanta, but Tampa, and the deal is rumored to be unofficial as of yet until Tampa Bay acquires a third rounder, which could happen shortly and is likely to be the hold up..

He was really good. As a rookie. Hes regressed every year to the point where hes a good young Dmen with potential. However, the guys I listed above are without doubt better than Meszaros at this point.

While this is true, many recent contract signings for RFA dmen can't be overlooked: Burns - 3.5 per Vlasic - 3.1 per Weber - 4.5 per Suter - 3.5 per ALL these guys are better than Meszaros and are the same age, and Murray was right to offer Meszaros in the neighborhood of 3.5M.

I'd love to hear what a Wings game sounds like without the warehouse acoustics of the Joe.

This is good news. One less tough competitor for the Wings to have to face! On a more serious note, props to this guy. I would've taken him on my team any day, and a great move to add him to the coaching staff.

If Chelios re-signs, Ericsson retires. It shall seal his fate and he will never play another NHL game again!! On a more serious note, Ericsson may be 24, but hes only been playing defense for what? A few years? Hes fine where he is. Hes a great young Dman, but its not like we have Dion Phaneuf playing for the farm and are just too set on team loyalty to let him get his chance. You worry about you, and the brass will worry about their business.

Why should Cleary be a 2nd liner? Cause he puts up more goals than Flip and Hudler? Thats exactly why he shouldn't be on the 2nd line. Franzen and Hank are both much better goal scorers, and frankly, when it comes to the outright shot, Hudler's is much better. Cleary has versatility going for him in that he can get the deflections, make the dekes, and hit the slappers or high wristers, but fact of the matter is, hes simply not that great of any of those. As the old Bell Tire girl used to say, Jack of all trades, master of none. Hudler has the better wrister, and its evident in comparing the two that Hudler sees the ice much better than Cleary does offensively speaking. Hudler knows that part of the game. Cleary knows grinding versatility. One of those is much better suited for 2nd line duty, and one is much more suited for checking line duty. Thankfully, Babs knows what hes doing and called it right.