YoungGuns1340

If we want to get into off-beat statistics, Brian Rafalski is also 10th among defenseman in the league for fewest minor penalites per total ice time. Robert Lang is also in the bottom 10 in the entire NHL for shot preventers in the Defensive Zone. I wouldnt say calling Lang a liability is extreme.

Tomas Holmstrom isnt one of them. I also dont think Cajanek has been signed yet, so he might not be one either. All the other ones are correct. Rolston, Hossa, Heatley, Marleau, Legwand. Wow. Do people actually have this approach? From what Ive seen on these boards, there are two camps of thought: The first one who wants Hollands head for not making this team tougher NOW NOW NOW. And the other camp that is saying, its not great right now, but wed rather wait around and sign something of use later on when more teams have a better idea of where theyre going, rather than fill up roster spots and cap space by signing the UFA leftovers.

Um, well, considering KOPECKY is slated to make the team next year, I see no reason why Grigorenko wouldnt.

Or its even funnier to see these idiots who obviously cant catch on to SARCASM. Either way.

I read somewhere that Bert's signing in Anaheim pretty much sealed Selanne's fate. Apparently, Selanne hates Bert (shocker).

Im surprised Markov hasnt signed with the Sharks yet. I wouldnt be surprised to see that happen. If the Wings did get Markov back, Id be pretty happy. There a few guys who are more physical than he is out there right now, but none are as reliable as he is. However, I dont really have my heart set on Markov. I would be psyched if we picked up Vitaly Vishnevski as a 5-7 guy, though. Ideally, since theres nothing but crap left on the forward market, Holland would f*** the offense, trade Lilja, and sign Markov and Vishnevski. Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Markov, Vishnevski, Lebda, Chelios. Thats just ******* sick.

Lebda hardly gets pushed around. He may be under 6 foot, but hes built like a wall. Plus hes not an offensive defenseman, and getting rid of him means becoming a lot slower on the back end. Lebdas speed is an asset to this club a lot more than Liljas two months of actually using his body were.

This board is so f***ed up. Top 3 things people complained about at the start of last season : 1) Having Lang and Williams 2) "we're too old" 3) Needing more grit Now that Holland has 1) gotten rid of Lang and Williams and 2) replaced a 38 year old Dman with a 33 year old Dman and added a hard-nosed roookie, people are still bitching and complaining. Addition by subtraction, people. It hasnt even been a week since free agency, yet the sky is already falling. This forum gets more unbearable with each new thread.

This is the irony of the situation - Everybody keeps on talking about how we need all these tough guys to protect our "skilled" players, yet I only count 4 guys that need protecting - Hank, Datsyuk, Flip, and Hudler - and even then the "protecting" is relative. Franzen, Draper, Maltby, Cleary, and Kopecky can all take care of themselves, as can Lidstrom, Chelios, Lilja, Lebda, and Kronwall. Well have to see about Rafalski, and supposedly Grigorenko plays a crash and bang game so.....help me out here. Do we need 2 scrubs to every skilled player? Everybody wants scrubs on this team to protect the soft top sixers that we dont have because we have so many scrubs. At this point, I look at our forward roster and I see crap. The tough guys that we have arent really tough, the 2nd line scorers that we have arent really scorers, and the only 3 guys that can really do anything need to be on a line together to really do some damage. IMO, nobody is going to be happy with this roster until MAYBE the trade deadline at this point. Unless for some reason we find a way to trade Sammy, sign Asham/Gelinas and/or trade for Mayers/Lapointe, while trading Lilja and add Markov/Vishnevski/Sutton. And of course this would only satisfy the need for "toughness" and "grit" and would require about 8 moves for us to actually be a bona fide "tough" team. Then of course it would take us another 8 moves to give us some offense and wed likely only have a few months to do it after making so many moves to satisfy the "grit" department that we're probably looking at a 2 year makeover period before the majority of people are happy. So honestly, I could care less what the hell we do. Maybe Ill get my wish and well add Raffi Torres, Mike Fisher, and Shea Weber in the next 6 weeks.

Does anyone feel this lineup? Seriously. Is there anyone on this board who is actually satisfied with what this roster has to offer? No. I dont know why you are appologizing for it. Whether you think this team needs more grit, or more scoring, everyone on this board thinks that this isnt that stellar of a lineup.

Holland will have a better idea of where things are going at the trade deadline, first of all. (i.e. whether the cap is going to rise again, whether Lidstrom is thinking retirement.) As for trading Hudler if he was a 30/60 guy, then, like I said, you would do it for a guy of Hossa's calibre. Another option is post-playoffs next year, especially if Lidstrom retires and the cap goes - or even one of the two, where Detroit could use Hudler in an offer for the rights to the likes of Heatley, Redden, Fisher or Marleau, for example. Another option is an outright trade with somebody who is close to the cap, in the rebuilding phase, or desperately in need of skill. The point is, Detroit has Datsyuk, Filppula, and Zetterberg. All of those guys are bigger, better defensively, and better skaters than Hudler, along with being more or as skillful as he is. That means, naturally, that what he brings to this Detroit team is nothing that Detroit is in dire need of, whereas something he could bring in return with a 30/60 season and a small price tag IS something that Detroit has been lacking since the scoring power of Shanahan or the speed of Fedorov, etc.

If hes used as trade bait, which is something I brought up a little while ago, it wont be pre-regular season. Itll be at the trade deadline if and only if he is at least a 20 goal scorer by that time. Otherwise, he wont have much value. But the fact that he is signed to a 2 year contract makes me think that management is DEFINITELY open to the idea of trading Hudler, along with their comments suggesting that Hudler is on a short leash. Its my belief that even if Hudler does have a 30 goal, 60pt season, the idea of trading him might still be an option. For example, if Atlanta doesnt make the playoffs (likely) and they cant re-sign Hossa, a Hudler package would still be a smart option.

I was happy with Bert on the Wings. But hes not somebody whos departure adversely affects this team. He would had to have had an impact on it for him to do that.

I guess if you expected them to play with only 9 forwards, then yes, but its not like they only have scrubs left to re-sign Shanahan - near 30 goal scorer Avery - 48 points (in 84 games), 20 points in 29 games with the Rags Lundqvist - 2 Vezina noms in his first 2 years in the NHL Prucha - 40 point sophomore Marcel Hossa is the only cheap player they have left to sign. Thats 5 players, 9M, and Lundqvist will probably take at least a third of that. EDIT: Petr Prucha just signed a 2 year, 3.2M deal, so I guess its now 8.4 to sign 4 players.

I see what youre saying. But I dont think Detroit is in a position right now to hold open a roster spot to see if a guy is going to be the next Chris Neil. They need to keep open their roster spots to see if a player will become the next Henrik Zetterberg or relative goal scorer. At this point, they need goal scoring more than they need toughness. Of course they need toughness, but Detroit only has 3 guys who can score on this team now. Thats why I dont see why everyone is so hopped up about why Holland has passed on a guy like Brad Winchester. If Holland was passing on a trade that saw Sammy going for Mayers, Hagman, etc, then Id be pissed. I guess what I mean to say is that Id like to see more grit on this team, except at the expense of guys like Sammy, Hudler, and Maltby, not at the expense of getting a player who can score some goals.

At the deadline? How about Chris Clark, Marian Hossa, and Mike Commodore at the deadline? How about Aaron Ward, Bill Guerin, and Brian Rolston at the deadline? How about Matt Cooke and David Legwand at the deadline? Niklas Hagman? Stu Barnes? Martin Lapointe? Derian Hatcher? JP Dumont? Agreed.

After the playoffs last year, I know this: EVERY player in hockey CAN be tough. They CAN fight like dogs. They CAN hit hard. They CAN drive to the net. But its a question of whether or not they are pushed to do it, motivated to do it. Personally, I think toughness has a lot more to do with a players coach and a players character more than ever before. I saw guys from Datsyuk to Markov to Zetterberg to Cleary playing hard, playing tough, hitting, and driving to the net to the point where even Don Cherry gave props to Datsyuk "throwing his weight around." I am comforted more about the fact that I can look at the forward roster and not see one guy on that list that has attitude problems or poor character or isnt hungry. Im also comforted about the fact that Babcock doesnt stand for that s*** either. Now, does that mean that Im satisfied with the roster? Of course not. But with whats available on the market right now, Id rather see Holland wait around to address the issues with someone that is actually worth roster spot. I would rather see Detroit keep its money AND its roster spaces for trades. Would I like to see Asham here? Hell yes. Ive always been a fan of his, but hes no help if theres nobody being subtracted from the team to the point where we have 13 forwards and only 3 top sixers. On top of that, its not like Detroit has to worry about a tough division or a tough conference to the point where they might not make the playoffs because of competition. At this point, if theres one thing that is keeping this team from being a CUP favorite, its scoring touch, not toughness. Shawn Thornton was useless. Chris Neil is the opposite end of the spectrum. Anybody would be insane not to want Chris Neil on their team, and thats exactly why Ottawa will do everything to kep him. There are very few Chris Neils in this league. Brad Winchester is not Chris Neil.

This is still an argument at this point? First of all, Detroit only has 3 top 6ers on the team. The 4th one who seems to be most promising is Filppula. At this point, Detroit has 2 2nd line spots open. Hudler, Sammy, Franzen, Grigornko AND Cleary will all get a chance throughout the season.

Cant believe people are so hung up on s*** like this. The ONLY way I want another 3rd/4th line guy is if we're getting rid of some of the useless ones we already have (see: Samuelsson) This is no longer a question of whether or not we need a guy like this, but whether or not we have the space. Its like people on here want to add every 8 goal scorer on the market. Enough is enough. We have one spot left, maybe two, and those should both go to guys who are going to score us some goals. If we have to wait til February to get them, so be it.

Do people on here actually think that Bertuzzi and Calder made a difference about what spot we got in the standings?? Newsflash. For all intents and purposes, Calder and Bertuzzi didnt have an effect on whether or not we won games in the playoffs or in the regular season. Stop acting like Detroit let 3 bona fide goal scorers that helped us dominate all over the ice walk away for nothing. We let an underperforming borderline 2nd liner walk, an emotionally and physically damaged top 6er who hasnt played a full season in 2.5 years walk, and an old, slow, lazy, did-more-for-the-opposition-than-he-did-for-us forward walk and get perhaps the most ridiculous contract handed out since July 1st. While the offense may not be as offensively potent, it is younger, faster, hungrier and grittier. And the goal-scoring issues will be addressed when there is someone available who can address them. Everybody on here always ******* and complains about how theres no youth movement on this squad. Well, weve had youngsters on the squad for a few years - now we actually have some decent minutes to give them. For all we know, we could have a bonafide goalscorer in one of Filpppula, Hudler, or Grigorenko. Theres no better time to find out if they are than this season. And the beauty of this situation is that, even if they arent great performers, well have plenty of cash to pick some guys up over the course of the season.

relax with the younger and hungrier. Kronwall, Leba, Quncey or Meech, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Cleary, Grigorenko, Kopecky, Filppula, Franzen, and Hudler are all under 30.

Awesome move by Edmonton. Is it kosher? Not exactly, but can you blame the guy? The cap was supposed to help his team.

Under offsides' conditions, my vote is 22. I guess if they didnt want to have a goaltender...

Hes always played a power forwards game. The only thing thatll keep him from being somebody in this league is his skating at this point, which is constantly getting better. Im surprised people dont that expect that much from him, but I do. I wouldnt be shocked to see this kid do better than both Filppula and Hudler did in their first season here.

Who exactly did we miss out on that we couldve afforded? Whether we need Hudler or not, we still only had 11 forwards. Im not sure why people thought we wouldnt sign him. Signing him was imminent. Theres not a better guy out there that we couldve signed and still had the money to get a legit top sixer as well as sign Hasek. Gelinas, Asham - these guys will cost around 1.5, and with the money left over, we wouldnt have had enough to get another forward. We need Hudler as trade bait anyways. Come trade deadline, who the hell do we trade? Kirk Maltby? a few more months of Samuelsson? More picks? If the kid can score 15 goals with crap minutes then he can score 20 with decent minutes. A cheap, young, 20 goal scorer is good trade bait. And if we dont trade him, its still not a stretch that hed be a 20 goal scorer by then.