YoungGuns1340

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Everything posted by YoungGuns1340

  1. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Exactly. And long those same lines of reasoning, thats why you don't see more "get rid of Draper and Maltby" threads. Could their cap space and roster spot be better utilized? Absolutely. But Draper has an NTC, and in general neither will be traded out of loyalty and tenure. Its not so much a free pass, as it is a "f*** it - we're stuck with them" attitude.
  2. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Yes. The $3M deal was based on the assumption that Filppula would, in time, be worth the money. However, that was prior to 1) The possibility of Hossa taking some 6M to stay here, or even the retention of Hossa in general, becoming more and more feasible 2) The continuation of Franzen's goal scoring prowess, that would bump him up on the value scale; and 3) the continual improvement of Jiri Hudler. Simply put, Filppula's contract was based on his potential at the time when Hudler, Hossa, and Franzen were not distinct competitors for Filppula's roster spot, ice time, and cap space.
  3. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Because defense alone from a forward isn't worth $3M, especially on a team that has two of the three reigning Selke nominees.
  4. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    But Filppula doesn't get powerplay ice time because hes not a good offensive player, which is a testament to the coaches belief that he isn't as good an offensive forward as 8-9 other forwards on our team. Think about that for a second. Babcock doesn't play him on the powerplay because the powerplay requires the best offensive forwards in your unit. That supports the notion that Filppula's ES points are there because hes playing more than almost everyone else, not because hes better than almost everyone else offensively. Filppula only has 1 more ES point than Cleary. Hes also played 139.5 more minutes at even strength than Cleary. Can you honestly say that you don't think Cleary could put up 2 more ES points in 139.5 extra minutes? Similarly, Filppula has 2 more ES points than Hudler in 179.5 more ES minutes. . Can you honestly say that you don't think Hudler could put up at least 3 more ES points in 179.5 extra ES minutes? Every indication says they would, which would put Filppula 7th in ES points. The fact of the matter is, almost every indication - be it on-ice perfromance, goals, points, shooting percentage, ice time, or any other indicator - supports the idea that Filppula is another player who falls into the grey area between the lesser 2nd line forwards and the better 3rd line forwards. Also, Filppula played over 4.5 minutes on the PP against Minnesota. How many points? 0. Filppula played 2 minutes on PP against the Preds. How many points? 0. He played 1.5 against Edmonton? 0. Also, here are some samples of Filppula's work on the PP when he gets decent time. 4:40 @ Minnesota - 0 pts 1:55 @ Nashville - 0 pts 2:33 @ St. Louis - 0 pts 1:31 @ Edmonton - 0 pts 3:37 @ Capitals - 1 point - his only point 3:11 @ Dallas - 0 points 2:15 @ Phoenix - 0 points 3:06 @ LA - 0 points Hes not exactly wowing the Wings with his PP prowess out there when hes given the chance.
  5. YoungGuns1340

    Mike Green, are we looking at a new Norris Winner

    Different eras, my friend. Defense is more important for every player nowadays. Fifteen, twenty years ago, not playing good defensive hockey as a forward wasn't even an afterthough. Nowadays, its a legitimate knock against a forwards game if they aren't good defensively. Even more so for defenseman. And, yeah, Paul Coffey won two consecutive trophies because he put up an average of 130 points both seasons. Green will be lucky to hit 80 points.
  6. YoungGuns1340

    TSN:Which line is best in NHL?

    Offensively? Yeah I'd say we're 2nd to Ovechkin's line. At both ends of the ice? There isn't another line that can compare to Zetterberg and Datsyuk's. If the writer had half a brain, he'd see that an ice rink has two ends, and that the Z-D-H line is peerless.
  7. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    The thing is, I'm not drawing conclusions. I'm doing math - a (so-called) objective science. Let's break it down: Fact: Filppula has played 759 minutes and 26 seconds at even strength. Which is to say, Filppula has had 759 minutes and 26 seconds of even strength time to score a point, which would naturally be an even strength point. Fact: Filppula has scored 26 even strength points this year. Fact: If you divide 759:26 minutes by 26 even strength points, the resulting number is 29.2. Or, to state the obvious, the amount of even strength minutes Filppula needs to record 1 even strength point. Now lets apply this oh-so complicated mathematical equation to those other forwards that are considered to be our top 9 offensive forwards. Even Strength Time on Ice / how many ES points they have = how many minutes it takes them to record an even strength point: Pavel Datsyuk: 778:45 / 44 = 17.6 Marian Hossa: 768:56 / 36 = 21.3 Valterri Filppula: 759:26 / 26 = 29.2 Henrik Zetterberg: 739:22 / 29 = 25.4 Mikael Samuelsson: 689:24 / 18 = 38.3 ( ) Johan Franzen: 655:26 / 21 = 31.2 Daniel Cleary: 620:01 / 25 = 24.8 Jiri Hudler: 580:01 / 24 = 24.1 Tomas Holmstrom: 480:13 / 19 = 25.3 What does this tell us? That Filppula mildly outperforms Franzen at ES - which supports my other argument that Franzen is overrated by the way - and that Holland is damn lucky that Sammy only makes 1.2M. Now, lets conceptualize this a bit, and take a look at how else we can use these measures. Here are some scenarios. A) If Filppula saw the kind of ESTOI Samuelsson sees (5th among forwards), Filppula would have 23 ES points - making him 7th on the team in ES points among forwards. B) If Filppula saw the kind of ESTOI that Franzen sees (6th among forwards), Filppula would have 22 ES points - still 7th on the team, but he would have 1 more point than Franzen, who has 21. C) If Filppula saw the kind of ESTOI that Hudler has (8th among forwards), he would have 19 ES points - making him 8th on the team, with 6 fewer points than Hudler has in the same time. D) If Filppula saw Datsyuk's ESTOI, he would still have 26 ES points, 18 fewer than what Datsyuk currently has. E) If Datsyuk saw Filppula's ESTOI, he would have 43 ES points, 17 more than what Filppula currently has. F) If Cleary saw Filppula's ESTOI, he would have 30 ES points, 4 more than what Filppula currently has. G) If Hudler, saw Filppula's ESTOI, he would have 31 ES points, 5 more than what Filppula currently has. H) If you reverse the ESTOI for Filppula and Hudler, Hudler has 31 ES points, and Filppula has 19 - a 12 point differential. I hope this helps you to understand where I'm getting my logic. And just to underline my point, as I've apparently been crowned the King of Filppula bashers, I have nothing against Filppula. In fact, this is my biggest pet peeve about message boards - if you choose to argue for or against a player, you have become a biased fanboy or a spiteful basher, respectively. And I'd like to think that I am neither. In terms of Filppula's talent as a forward, I consider him to have more talent than Samuelsson, and I consider him to be on par with Holmstrom and Franzen. I don't think any of our top 9 players suck, but I do think they are invariably under and overrated. In this case, the statistics support the fact that the OPs statement is both fallacy and a pillar of Filppula's overrated nature. Woot. Long Post. Aderall. Yay.
  8. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    I do too - unless it comes at the cost of losing better players.
  9. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    First of all, don't joke about rape. Second of all, are you Val's little lover or something? And third of all, no he doesn't get brownie points for playing more games and getting more ES minutes because of it. If Franzen played just 5 games and averaged 23 minutes a game, he'd be 1st in ESTOI, and he'd probably be 12th in points among forwards. What about logic is so hard for you to understand? And in general, I have nothing against Flip. I just recognize through his on-ice performance and the stats that back it up that hes at best a borderline 2nd liner.
  10. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    You're right. It is akin to playing the 1st 2 periods of a game on the PP. And at that rate, it'd be pretty sad to only see 1 point come out of it. And no. Hes putting up ES points like a 2nd liner, getting ESTOI like a 1st liner, and producing at an ES rate of a 3rd liner.
  11. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Hes third in ESTOI total. He doesn't get brownie points because he plays less per game than Franzen, when Franzen has had 9 fewer games to put up Even strength points, and Zetterberg has played 5 fewer.
  12. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Filppula gets 1st line even strength minutes. Not 2nd. Not 3rd. First.
  13. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    In most cases, player A is better than player B if hes putting up more points with less time - whether its PP or ES time doesn't make a difference. Points per minute is a good indicator of that. Whats dumb is to thing that PPM isn't a good indicator of talent. At even strength, Filppula is putting up ES points at the rate of a 3rd liner, yet hes getting the ice time of a first liner. Thats logic. Thats fact. Thats evidence. As for PP time, Filppula doesn't get PP time because hes not better than any of the others offensively. Filppula has played 36 minutes on the PP this year, and has 1 point. 36 minutes may not be a lot, buts its akin to 3+ minutes per game over a 10 game period. And 1 point is the result for a guy who will be 25 next month.
  14. YoungGuns1340

    Franzen or Hudler

    No. People want the one with more talent. Crazy idea, isn't it? Talent is not relative, and Hudler has much more of it at a much younger age.
  15. YoungGuns1340

    Pavel Datsyuk is The Best Player In The World

    That would be interesting to see. I like that award the best - nothing like being called the best by the guys who actually play the game.
  16. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    You can call lines any numbers you want - A player who plays the 3rd most at even strength should produce the 3rd most at even strength. Similarly, a player who plays 3rd most at even strength is statistically a 1st line player at even strength. All that matters when it comes to points is the absolute number, eh? In that case, Filppula must be the 9th best forward because he has the 9th most points among forwards. After all, all that matters when it comes to points is the "absolute number."
  17. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Why yes. Yes I do. Its a novel concept, I know.
  18. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Never said he wasn't good, or that he sucked. Just pointing out the obvious fallacy of the "topic," if you can even call it that.
  19. YoungGuns1340

    Trade Deadline

    I really don't think we will, to be honest, unless Holland doesn't mind having the goalie saga part 2 and carry 3 goalies. Holland will not trade Osgood ever again, and I can't see Holland trading Conklin either, out of respect to a guy who has been an integral part of our team this year and who signed for the express purpose of strengthening our cup chances. With that said, a random idea might be one of Philly's goaltenders, Biron or Niitymaki. 1) Both are "Red Wings goaltenders," meaning they're not great, but can come up when needed, which would provide a slight upgrade for us in net. 2) They also don't have the ego to create havoc in the dressing room if we were to carry three goaltenders (from what I've heard, they're both really well liked in the dressing room), and we could use them to push one another to play their best 3) They're UFAs 4) They wouldn't cost too much since neither are the be all and end all of a playoff run to most teams 5) Philly not only needs cap space, but they're also seeking another Top 4 Dman, and they could see moving one of their goaltenders to create space/add a Dman as more crucial than retaining both goalies or avoiding a trade with a fellow Stanley Cup competitor. But I'm just thinking "out loud" here. Again, I don't think thats really going to happen - we've had holes in the past going into the playoffs that Holland knew of and failed to address - and I think thats going to be the case this year. We have problems in net, and have had them all season long, but I just can't see us doing anything about it other than hoping for the best in a close-your-eyes-tight-and-cross-your-fingers kind of way. I think this is going to be a deadline similar to 2006. We desperately needed grit up front, on the back end, and we really needed another Top 4 Dman after Fischer went down. Our bottom 4 that year was old Chelios, rookie Lebda, a much worse Andreas Lilja, and, for all intents and purposes, a rookie Niklas Kronwall who was still recovering from a big injury. It was obvious we were soft all over and weak on the back end, and Kenny's solution was Cory Cross. Thats kind of what I expect to see this year, if we make any additions at all.
  20. YoungGuns1340

    Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

    Filppula has the most even strength minutes after Hossa and Datsyuk. Filppula is the 7th most productive forward at even strength, and takes 29 minutes to put up 1 even strength point, more time than Datsyuk, Hossa, Hudler, Cleary, Zetterberg, and Homer.
  21. YoungGuns1340

    Leino's Potential

    I agree with Boston, but for different reasons. Typically teams that rely heavily on inexperienced forwards in terms of the playoffs - Kessel, Krejci, Wideman, and Lucic - need a year or two before they really understand the implications of playoff hockey. But San Jose is different. I agree that Nabokov is overrated, but hes playing as well as they need him to. As we've seen in Detroit, playoff victories can just as easily come from a full team effort than from a goalie stealing the show. San Jose is also different in Boston in that they're main players have had their playoff hopes squashed plenty of times to know that they have to find that "extra gear" if they really want to compete. They're hungry and they're experienced. The combination could be deadly. The adage that the Sharks will choke just as they have in the past is nothing more than a mode of reassurance for opposing fans. Its the same as the "they won't make it past the 2nd round" maxim that Wings fans dealt with from 2003-2007. Its the composite version of calling Pavel Datsuyk a playoff ghost. You're only a ghost until you arent anymore. You're only a choker until you arent anymore. Keep giving the Sharks chances, and they'll eventually take advantage of it.
  22. YoungGuns1340

    Leino's Potential

    I've been one of, if not the biggest advocate to get rid of Filppula. But he does not "stink." He also does not have "zero trade value." Hes a great player who would be worth his $3M on a team that could utilize him to the max. Filppula, on a bottom 10 team, could spend 3+ minutes on the PK per game, 3+ minutes on the PP per game, and 15 minutes at ES per game. He just needs to be in the right position. Take a look at Quincey - he went to a team who had a very young defense, and was lacking in offensively capable Dmen, particularly with Johnson being out. He came in, and where he would've been a 7th Dman here, he's a #2 Dman in LA, and will likely remain a Top 3 Dman upon Johnson's return, in terms of ice time. In Detroit, he wouldn't be worth 1M bucks, but in LA, hes worth over 3M. Now, take a look at a team like Atlanta. Todd White is their "top" center. He plays almost 4 minutes on the PP, with Kovalchuk, and he sees 18 minutes a game, but only plays 1 minute on the PK. In Atlanta, Filppula would likely see that same 3+ minutes of PP per game, but he'd see more than the 13 minutes of ES time that White does, and he'd probably see 3+ minutes of PK time per game. Considering he'd be Atlantas "most complete" forward, he'd likely see 20-23 minutes of ice time per game, all things considered - about 7 minutes split between the special teams, and about 14-17 minutes at ES. Is that worth 3M? You're damn right it is. With that kind of time, he'd easily put up 50+ points on the year, while being their #1 defensive forward. Its also the reason the Wings don't need him - he is far from our most complete player, not a top 3 defensive forward on our team, and at most, he could hope for about 2 minutes of PP time per game and 18 minutes overall. At most. Now, take a look at NYI. Their leading forwards in ice time are freaking Guerin, Weight, and Park - 2 over the hill vets and a guy that only has a job if hes playing for a bottom feeder. Their leading scorer has 38 points - Mark Streit - and their leading forward has 35 points, despite playing 4+ minutes on the PP. Their most complete player is Trent Hunter and even he only plays 1 minute on the PK with over 3.5 on the PP. How many points to his name this season? 31. On the Isles, Filppula is the #1 Pker (their #1 Pker plays 3 minutes a game), and if he isnt on the 1st unit on the PP, hes the #1 man on the 2nd unit - which, on the Islanders, means 3 minutes of PP time a game. In all, again, he'd be likely to see 20 minutes per game overall. Worth 3M? Absolutely. Look at Colorado - they only have 4 forwards who have over 30 points. Their PK is 26th. They're spending over 2M on Svatos - a very incomplete forward who plays 0 on the PK, and over 2M on Tucker - both guys who they've been looking to move at the deadline, despite having a year left on their contracts. To round out their forward depth, they have the great Tyler Arnason. 5 of their forwards see 18+ minutes a game - one of which is the "likely to retire" Joe Sakic - meaning Filppula would have a chance at 18+ minuts a game. Their faceoff % ranks 22nd in the league, and is bound to get worse with Sakic's departure. They're using guys like Stastny, Wolski, and Hejduk on the PK. When Sakic leaves, their options at the 2nd line center position are Laperriere, Hensick, and McCormick. Is a forward that is better defensively than all their current forwards, who would also get a shot at the 2nd line center position, would help them on the PK and in the faceoff circle, and would likely see at least 2.5 minutes on the PP be worth 3M? Absolutely. You can't just assume that just because a player doesn't fit in on one team, and thus doesn't earn his paycheck, that he wouldn't be a great fit on another team. Antoine Vermette anyone? Hes making nearly the same amount as Filppula is, a year older, and only has 21 points, and yet he is still being sought after by various teams according to rumors on Spector and the like. The guy has value. So does Filppula. You just have to find the team that could use them. Its a simple formula. A team that has Tomas Holmstrom would not value a 6M Ryan Smyth very highly. But that doesn't mean the same can be said for a team that has no net front presence to speak of and a terrible PP. Its the same case with Filppula. If Holland can find the right team for him - in my opinion, Atlanta would be ideal - he could get great value for him.
  23. YoungGuns1340

    Worried About Hudler

    The other 17 goals that Hudler has were pure luck, don't you know.
  24. YoungGuns1340

    Trade Deadline

    Yes, you're right. I just looked it up.
  25. YoungGuns1340

    Worried About Hudler

    Duh. The whole point here is that the Wings keep Hudler over one Franzen or Filppula. And, is it just me, or has the board become infatuated with the idea that making financial space for a forward can only come from moving a forward? And I don't advocate keeping Filppula ahead of any of our UFAs, for the record. Not to mention, Howard makes less than Conklin, so the Wings don't lose him to the waiver wire. And the Wings can make space for Ericsson by moving Lebda or Meech. Try a little creative thinking.