daniel1

Downey can throw 'em, and with both hands too. If he learns how to forecheck and throw his weight around on the opposing D I think Babs will give him some more ice time. His fight tonight was well timed and had a purpose; if nothing else getting McLaren off the ice for 5 min while we didn't really lose anyone who would have been out there anyways was a huge plus for us. After the hit on Drake I hoped somebody would acknowledge that it was borderline dirty or at the very least interference as Drake didn't have and wasn't playing the puck at the time. I would go so far as saying Aaron sparked a rally for us, or at least gave us an energy boost. I give props to McLaren for answering the call though, he could have just as easily sent Murray or Clowe to fight his battles for him. What we ALL want is another McCarty, a guy who can fight, hit, and score but that's pretty rare. If Downey is coachable and does what Babs asks I don't see why he can't stay up with the Wings. I would send Kopecky down before Downey. Heck I would even send Huddles down for a couple games to light a fire under his ass, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to his game or desire to put the puck in the net and if he's not scoring - he's useless.

Individual Players Surprise: P. Stastny, Col. I didn't realize he was as good as he is. I even watched (insert gag reflex here) some of the Av's games to see if he was for real, and he is. Dissapointment: J. Hudler, Det. Not only because he's pointless, but moreso because of his unispired play and lack of quality chances. How did he score so many points in the minors? I really hope he's just a slow starter and once he gets his first he'll become a consistant sniper, but so far it's not looking good. C'mon Huddles!! Team Performance Surprise: Chicago, I know they're only 3-3 but I expected about 1-5. They've beat us twice while Kane and Toews look good early. Throw in a motivated Khabibulin and a healthy Havlat (if that ever happens) and I think you have the makings of a playoff team. Dissapointment: Atlanta, after last year's 1st place Division finish I expected bigger things from them this year. Firing Hartley was a surprise this early in the season despite the 0-6 record. Hossa, Kovalchuk, Kozlov and Lehtinnen would seem to be a solid core to build around so maybe they can make a couple moves and turn it around. They need an upgrade on D and we need a 2nd line forward. We should sign Markov and then trade a D (Lebda, Lilja, Quincey, Meech?) for Todd White.

Yep, you are right. Untill you've been on the ice when one of your teammates goes balls to the wall for you or your buddy, you'll never know what kind adrenaline boost that gives you... as long as he at least draws you all of a sudden feel like you can slay dragons and tame lions. Any coincidence we're seeing Maltby's best play in two years now that he's got a little muscle beside him? (Drake, Downey)

Was if just me or was Marleau pretty much invisible in the third? Do you think playing him with Joe would get him going or has that been tried lots in SJ?

When Sammy and Franzen come back stick them with Filpulla and I think they will contribute. Draper can skate with Cleary and Hudler. That leaves Malts and Drake to play with Kopeky. After watching Z, Dats and Homer dominate I vote for leaving them together.

BTW, Hank with 3 points tonight gives him 12 on the year and #1 in the NHL scoring race. I know it's early but it sure is nice to see anyways...

I hope the two of you someday find and enjoy the cheese you both believe to exist on the moon. Don't forget to bring crackers along to have with it.

Hudler is affected, so is every other player in the NHL, NBA, NFL, or CFL. Intimidation affects us all, whether you want to admit the fact that your idol is human or not. I don't care whether he calls Kubina names at recess or jaws with him: it does affect his play. Your reluctance to admit to the human condition is quite disconcerting. I had previously pictured you as someone with common sense, but I'm not sure how I can discuss anything with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality. Your posts are all starting to sound like "The moon is made of cheese! The moon really is made of cheese! I repeat, the moon is made of cheese!" I don't wanna put you on ignore or anything cause you contribute some interesting ideas on other topics and you are certainly well read in other areas of the game, but this enforcer argument of yours is getting a tad ridiculous.

Agree with you I do. Let's go have a beer in a real bar, with real people, who will punch us in the nose if we insult them enough, lol I think the division of thoughts here on this subject comes down to those that have had some experience on the ice or in any reality setting with the situation which we are debating, and those who have none.

Don't be naive. Jiri Hudler is no more "fearless" than you or I. Hudler isn't some comic book figure or mythical creation in a Greek legend; he's a human being. He's capable of fear just as much as anyone else. I would think this would be rather obvious in his reluctance to drop the mitts with anyone - he knows he'll get his ass kicked. His confidence level is affected just as much as anyone else on the bench who witnesses his teamates willingness to stand up for him. Perhaps some experience in the real world would benefit you rather than playing in cyberspace all day. Real fists hurt when they hit you buddy, having a 220lb enforcer stare you down and tell you he's gonna put you through the glass can affect anyone's play whether they are Super-Hudler or not.

You make a good point here, the word "enforcer" has certainly changed meanings since Dave "The Hammer" Schultz and Dave "Cement Head" Semenko patrolled the wings and kept teams honest. As much as I've enjoyed reading both sides of the argument put forth by my fellow LGW'ers I have to say that I think we are missing the true reason for having an enforcer on your team. I hate to use the "I've been there" argument, but I will anyways cause in this case I think it's essential to understanding my rationale. It's not so much what an enforcer does on the ice that makes a difference to how his team plays, but rather the effect of knowing that the enforcer is there and how that changes the mindset and confidence level of his teamates. Fear is a funny thing, often it is the threat of violence that is more effective as an intimidation factor than any actual use of violence will ever be. Having an enforcer on your team (and a competent one is better than one who looses all the time) changes the mindset and to some degree the confidence level of all the other players on his team. I tried to explain the psychological effect of carrying an enforcer to NN in another post, but I'm not sure he ever truly understood. NHL coaches and most GM's understand the reasoning (I know cause I've actually talked to some of them, former and current) and most sports psychologists will agree with the argument as well; confident players play up to their potential or beyond. A lack of confidence can result in players under performing, regardless of their skill or conditioning level. This is a tricky concept to define in a post and while I could write a dissertation on the subject, I doubt anyone would want to spend the time pouring over my research and findings in a 50 to 60 pager. Just knowing that someone is there to "have your back" will in effect make you a better player due to your increased confidence level. This however affects the psyche of different players to different degrees. A fella like Shanahan for example probably wouldn't play any differently if he had 10 enforcers on his team or none. This has to due with Shanny's belief in his own ability to handle himself should the need arise. I think we can all agree his belief is well founded and justifiable too. However, we do not have a team of Shanny's out there folks. What we do have is some real skilled but much less aggressive players whose performance would benefit greatly from the knowledge that someone on our bench "has their back" when the threat of violence is imposed upon them. It is a purely psychological effect that does not even have to manifest itself in the literal translation of the enforcer role to be effective. Datsyuk or Hudler will play with more confidence if they believe that Downey is over there on the bench, a few scant feet away, to handle the rough stuff if the need arises. They want to believe this, and the reassurance that this belief brings elevates their play. It is the job of the coach to raise the play and get every ounce of ability and effort out of his players, and carrying an enforcer on your roster is another way of doing so.

Here's the deal. CBC has THE BEST cameras for covering hockey, their telecasts are way clearer, smoother and better done than any other network. They have more experience and put more money into their HNIC telecast than anyone else. TSN and Sportsnet broadcasts are very good as well, their cameras are not as clear as CBC but they do a real good job of angles and zoom in/out at appropriate times as well as following the play. NBC and Fox sports would be right behind them but their cameramen are still a little foggy about anticipating where the play will be and including that area into their camera view. After those networks however, it goes downhill real fast. Versus is a joke, their cameras have the worst resolution of any network that covers hockey cause, well, they just started covering hockey and probably didn't wanna dump mega money into it in case it flopped. Their is no excuse however for their ridiculous camera angles and piss poor job of following the play, this is just due to inexperience and camera men better suited to covering dolphins ******* in a pool than a fast action game like hockey. Versus announcers are crappy too. I love the FSN Detroit announcers cause they're fair and call it as they see it without the usual "homerism" of CBC or TSN. If a Wings player f***s up, they call it that way and give credit to ANY player who makes a great play. If we could combine CBC cameras and cameramen with Fox Det announcers we would have the PERFECT broadcast.

Remember we are dealing with a network that is more accustomed to filming hippos trying to f*** in the mud while a lion stalks them silently in the grass... I'm amazed they don't wanna ask the NHL to try a hockey/safari mix for f***'s sake... "Chelios down the wing, oh, wait, he's picked of by a cheetah!"

... but not on the ******* point.

That got me laughing for real! I never noticed the resemblance till now... but it's there. Overheard from Chissy's stall after the game; " Oh Yanni, your 'stache tickles me thighs and tosses muh salad"

Ah, may I be the first to Christen thee Lilja with the recently vacated nameplate "Lazy and Sucks" Perhaps an addition..."Lazy, sucks and takes BAD penalties". lol

Ah, may I be the first to Christen thee Lilja with the recently vacated nameplate "Lazy and Sucks" Perhaps an addition..."Lazy, sucks and takes BAD penalties". lol

I swear the two of them share a brain out there at times.

How do they get a PP out of Malts takin a stick to the face?

Kronwall f***in leveled Kunitz at the blue line. Kronner is way more than 165, I don't give a s*** what they list him at, they probably haven't weighed him in 5yrs or something. He stopped Kunitz dead and layed him out.

Just tuned in, is it just me or are we F-A-S-T as a team this year? Is there a slow Wing out there? (besides Lilly ok!)

Center Ice package my friend; it's worth every penny. If you got no dish, try the internet Center Ice package, I watched a few preseason games that way and they looked pretty good as long as you have a high speed (cable, DSL) connection available.

You have reached a new high in post-counts today which are rife with your usual circular arguments. Corresponding with you is like trying to teach a 5 grade student Chinese by having them listen to it over and over again. No matter how many times you hear the reasoning, you will probably never understand it. You defend the examples of effective enforcers I brought up like Tony Twist and Dave Semenko by claiming that somehow they were worthy skill-wise to make their teams rather than admit what they're real purpose on the ice was. Semenko could barely skate. Twist's career high in goals in a season was "3". They were there to bring confidence to their teams. Were there better players in the Blues and Oilers training camps that were left off in favour of Twist and Semenko? Absolutely. If you think otherwise you clearly don't have a clue. I find most of your posts (all 1million of them) to be fairly intelligent and thoughtful, but on this issue my fellow Wing fan I must agree to disagree with you. Downey should get a roster spot for now. If someone with the "enforcer" makeup comes along that is a better all around player than Downey then you can reassign him or release him but till then he would make my opening roster for the Wings. Now that I think of it, a lot of your hockey opinions remind me of Bob Mckenzie. Roenick hit the nail on the head when it came to that windbag and it's too bad we won't see more of J.R. as an analyst this year. So, i'll quote Jeremy and leave it at that. "you'd understand what I'm talking about if you'd ever played the game".

Frick you're dense on this subject. As of now we don't have ANYBODY like this on the team. Downey would at least be somebody, and if you look at his stats, he sure as hell didn't last all these years (7 or so) in the NHL due to his goals and assists. You don't think GM's and players from other teams talk to each other? If he wasn't good for SOMETHING he wouldn't have lasted one month in the world's best ******* hockey league. The "entire point here" is that Downey would be better than nothing; which is exactly what we have now. Why in God's green earth do you think Downey DID crack the roster on those other NHL teams he played for? It wasn't due to any 50 goal potential he showed in Junior, it was the 400PIM season in Providence. If he didn't know how to do his job and wasn't ready to accept limited ice time and not be a defensive liability, he's only -4 for entire career. We're not going to get Gillies, Probie, or McCarty between now and October. So do you really believe Dats and Z want NOBODY as opposed to Downey? You obviously didn't try the bar experiment I asked you to do or you still wouldn't be harping your point to death.

I love your quote on fighting in your signature at the bottom. It is apparent you have played the game and gone to war in another team's barn before. If we could take every twit who wants to eliminate the "character glue guys" who stand up for their teamates and won't back down from anyone and stick them on the ice in Flin Flon for a few games of junior they would wise up and advocate signing a guy like Downey for sure. Till then we have to put up with the "Downey won't score many goals for us" half-witted bulls***.