daniel1

You just don't get it. I've been there, and it DOES change things. Perhaps not in the way that you think it does though, I can see that it's not going to be easy to explain it to you either due to your admitted lack of a relevant frame of reference for comparison, but I will give it a go cause you post here A LOT and you need to expand your thinking if you're going to be trying out for the amateur journalist award with your million posts a month. It really has NOTHING to do with how the other team perceives the Wings with Downey/Norton/Kocur/Any-Guy-With-Balls that the wings put on the roster; it's all about how the Wings perceive themselves. I played with a tremendously talented winger in junior, a Russian fella who made the NHL, lotsa hype, great Dub' career, fell flat on his face in the show. He benifited from a few "scrubs" as you call them, who made my buddy feel like he was 6'4" and 240lbs, which translated into confidence, which translated into goals and assists for him, and wins for us. He knew we had his back, and that we would do anything for him if it helped us to win a game. He liked playing with us, we made him feel good about himself, we made him laugh in the dressing room, we went out of our way to make him feel comfortable in the locker room, on the ice, in the bars, and in the city we lived in, heck we even found dates for him in the bars ahead of time and convinced him he was a "pickup artist", lol. Hockey is 50% ability and 50% mental, always has been and always will be, most other things in life are the same way too. Guys that go from 50 goal scorers to 15 goal scorers didn't suddenly "lose" their ability, they lost their confidence. It's certainly not always due to lack of an enforcer though. I knew guys who "lost it" due to chics, family s***, money, drugs, and a whole bunch of other really rotten crap that nobody seems to ever consider can happen to a hockey player. The best way I can describe how a guy like Downey can affect other players on the Wings is this: (and i recommend you try it if not for your own personal growth then just for fun). 1. Find the nastiest, sleaziest, roughest bar in the closest city you live by. 2. Walk inside by yourself and order a double jack 3. Pick out the hottest chic and approach her and her entourage with the intent of hitting on her 4. Stop four feet from her and assess how you feel. Scared? Nervous? You sure as s*** are. Now do the same thing in that same bar the next weekend, only this time take the biggest, meanest, toughest friend you've got along with you and ask him to walk behind you as you approach Ms. Hottie. Stop four feet from her again after the double jack; look behind you at your buddy who has got your back, asses how you're feeling this time. As you notice the change in your confidence level from the first time you tried it, think of how Dats and Z and Flip would feel if someone had THEIR back. It's not about preventing cheapshots or taking on the other teams toughest player or convincing the other team of ANYTHING. It's about getting the most out of your own players and doing everything you can to make sure they don't lose their confidence or get nervous on the ice. I know some guys who know some guys, and they tell me the boys who were legendary at this were guys like Domi, Twist, D-Mac, Probie, Semenko and the guy that everyone seems to agree on as the king of confidence building - Clark Gillies (NYI). The word on him is that nobody ever had to tell him how to take care of the talent, on and off the ice, that he was so charismatic that guys were just naturally drawn to him and followed his lead into battle. According to one Islander who coached after his playing career in my home town, Clark held that team together like crazy glue, took the rooks under his wing and told them to fear nothing and that he had their back from the day they walked in the door. Oh, by the way, I'm pretty sure they won some cups with him along the way too. He's still best of friends with Potvin, Bossy, and Trottier to this day. Now I'm not saying we can turn Downey into Gillies (who could also play btw), but a guy like Downey who knows the role and has got our backs is worth a roster spot and 750,000 any day of the week.

I will bet my farm, and my neighbors farm too, that you have never played even one game of hockey above rec or beer league.

Good read. Yorio IS crap by the way. Every time someone f***s up, I tell them they just "pulled a Yorio".

Downey has balls. It might convince a few of our other players to use theirs on the ice too. Throw a few more hits, stick up for their teamates more; these are some of the intagibles that don't show up on the scoreboard that a guy like Downey brings. There was a reason Gretzky gave Semenko a new car. As Babs said; "those guys keep the flies off".

Both. Put Meech on waivers or trade him. If we lose him, big deal; he's had lots of time to impress and obviously hasn't done so yet if he's still an "on the bubble guy". With Kindl, Ericcson, and Quincey we don't seem to be lacking in D-men for the immediate future anyways. We WILL lose people on D this year however given the age of some our D-men and their history, so we need a competent vet that can play top 4 minutes for extended stretches of the season. Downey gives us a "motivator" someone we can plug into the lineup if a regular isn't competing hard. If we had subbed someone in for Lazy & Sucks a few times last year perhaps he would have moved his feet a little faster at times.

I didn't even sign up... just went there and clicked on the game.. it played nice and smooth, decent quality too.

Can't believe how much i missed hockey... it was like i was visiting an old friend all night. Those new uniforms make everyone look taller. Dats/Franzen/Holmstrom line looked great. Ryno is big, hope he develops. Cheli looks 25, how the f*** does he do it and where can I buy some of it? I can't wait to see Z, I just wish he had some better linemates... Can Lidstrom play his wing? Puuuhhhleeeeaaasssse!!!

He did impede his progress... and it was Gaborik... and it was preseason, and it was Cullimore, lol If it was Lidstrom in the playoffs; no call for sure.

I don't think the Leafs will be out of the playoff race by the trade deadline either. I think they will be out of the playoff race by the All-Star Game.

Pierre retired last year. Somebody forgot to tell him...

Wanna put some money on it? I'll even give you odds...

Oh but matter it does, padawan learner. Front loading a contract makes it easier to trade someone in the declining years of their contract. The other team is only responsible for the remainder of the contract, not the average. Look at the Briere deal Philly negotiated for a good example. If Philly wants to unload Briere in the last year or two of his deal it will be much easier for them to do so with him making only making a couple mil rather than 10 per season. Similarly if Briere demands a trade after a few seasons it will be easier to accommodate him. I think we will see this as a trend to get free agents as the lure of big money immediately will entice a player to take a chance on a poor team (Philly) while knowing the chance to move on after a couple years if things don't work out is increased by the lower back end of the contract. Trying to move an underachieving 7mil/yr player is much tougher than trading an underachieving 2-3mil/yr player. The Briere Deal a la Yahoo Sports. "The contract is heavily front-loaded, with Briere to make $10 million next season -- double what he made last year. He'll then make $8 million in the next two years and $7 million during the 2010-13 seasons. The contract then tapers off with Briere scheduled to make $3 million in 2013-14 and $2 million in the final year of the deal."

Darn it. I think Nylander could have been a good 2nd line center here... or 3rd if Flip wins the 2nd line job. I wonder if Holland really thinks Dats and Z will be centers 1 and 2 next year; by the lack of pursuit of a proven 2nd line center so far he seems to be leaning that way.

Think it looks good now? Wait 2-3yrs then it will be a bargain. 5 years from now we might be saying he's the most UNDERPAID player in the league. He'll be making 6.7m/yr when other top line centers will be exceeding 10mil/yr on a regular basis for the next few years. Then we'll have a lockout again, and there will be a Cap put on the Cap, lol The big headache will be how to make Zetterberg's next deal look comparable to Datsyuk's while still locking him up long term.

I don't know what all this fuss is about. Sure, it's not the best tasting product out there, but it's real cheap and if you fry it up with onions and peppers it's really quite tasty. If we're going to try to ban something, how bout spinnach or oatmeal or something that's really bland?

Ya he and Cheli can be roomies on the road, lol. He's invisible for most of the game, then cherry picks late when the game's already decided and picks up a goal or and assist so it looks like he did something. He's softer than a marshmallow sandwhich in the microwave too. Kariya should retire along with Salami so the sisters can open up a nice quaint shoe shop together just outside San Fransisco.

Still say Sutton would look good as our #5 D-man. He does play top four minutes already and he can definitely throw the knuckles if needed. Lids - Markov Schneids- Kronwall Sutton - Lebda Lilja

I want someone mean. Really, really mean. Mean like Mac, Shanny and Marty used to be in the playoffs. Mean like the Stevie Y stare of death, but with about 235lbs of angry knuckle-dragging flesh behind the stare. I want someone who when they hear a puke like Perry say someone's gonna "get it", they skate over and shove their glove down his throat and ask if he wants more of "it". I DON'T think our team hits enough, nor are we mean enough. Yes, I'm angry we lost but I want to be talented AND scare the other team a little bit next year. Who's out there? Ah, i wish i knew the answer to that.. but Andy Sutton is a UFA, he's big and mean. I'd like Bertuzzi if he would play like the old "pre-Moore" Bert, but I think that ship has sailed. Can we clone him and accelerate his aging then have him raised by wolves? Wolves that also run a hockey school? lol But, i digress... Goodbye to: Lang and Calder. Hello to: Sutton and something big and nasty with good hands. Hats off to: Cleary, Dats, Franzen, Lidstrom, Hasek and Z, they played great. The jeopardy question to Holland; why did you resign Maltby when it's obvious the guy hardly plays now... let alone three years from now. Like duh. A big thanx for nothin to: Schneider and Kronwall, if they hadn't went out and gotten injured we would be in the cup final. Just kiddin boys, get well and come back strong next year, we missed ya. And thanx to all the posters, moderators, administrators and other elves or dwarves who operate this site. See ya in September.

I was looking at the NHL playoff stats and noticed that we have no fewer than 8 guys listed. Of those 8, 3 are making around 1mil/yr,another is only getting 600,000, while our top two highest paid guys are 3rd and 5th in playoff scoring. Are we seriously underpaying some of our talent? Or is Holland just that shrewd of a GM? I'm not complaining mind you, I think this is great from an organizational standpoint, but are we in line to have to fork over huge raises to some of these guys who are making low salaries but putting up big playoff points? Lidstrom (7.6/yr) 17pts (3rd) - can't say he's underpaid but at least he's earning it Dats (3.9/yr) 14pts (5th) - he's getting his raise... for the next 7 years! (but this year he's earning it too) Zetterberg (2.6/yr) 12pts (8th) - definite bargain value considering his two way play and the layoff he had Homer (1.4/yr) 8pts (T 21st) - maybe the best bargain in the NHL with his importance to the PP and grinding style Cleary (660k/yr) 8pts (T21st) - Wow! Did this guy come from the Dollar Store or what! His physical play has been huge Samuelsson (1.2/yr) 7pts (T30th) - Brunt of criticism all year, now a fan-favorite. Huge bargain considering salary Franzen (940k/yr) 7 pts (T30th) - Physical, defensive, and can score. Where else do you find this for under a mil a year? Lang (3.8/yr) 7pts (T30th) - Not a bargain, but at least he's producing somewhat and has a knack for big goals so far. Hasek (750k/yr) 10W (2nd) 1.53GAA (2nd) - I know he's getting his bonuses, but he's playing like a 6 or 7 mil/yr goalie I didn't mention Lebda and Filpulla who are also making less than a mil/yr and contributing like big salary guys too. If Filpulla continues to play like he did last night he'll be up in the scoring leaders in a few games easily. I think management and scouting has done a real good job filling out our lines and still being budget conscious. That being said, how many of these guys are due for huge raises that won't enable us to hang on to all of them?

I think it's about scouting and smart draft picks to be honest with you. Teams just can't afford to make up for poor drafting with a bunch of high priced free agents anymore.

I agree with all your points. He can really control the cycle down low with his size and reach when he wants to. I think at this point it's probably more of a mental thing with him. Does he feel confident enough to hang on to the puck and try and make a play? Confidence is 1/2 the battle with pro-atheletes, they all have some talent but are they confident enough to use it effectively. Beiing out as long as he was we can't expect him to be 100% yet but I agree he's looked better in the last couple games.

Norton's a goon. Don't call him up unless the other team misplaces their punching bag and wants to borrow one. Meech, Ericsson and probably even Kindl are all better D-men than "Hey Norrrrrton."

If you don't like the topict then don't post in it. Seriously I get a laugh out of the people who reply to topics that they don't feel are "worthy" of replying to. You remind me of the fat kid at the ice cream stand who says there are too many ice cream stands... and then orders up a double scoop. I think Selanne is a better pure scorer than Z, but nowhere near the defensive presence that Z is. Zetterberg is almost like having a third defensman on the shift sometimes. I don't think he's back to 100% yet though. I'm waiting to see one of those shifts where he just won't be denied a goal. He was having those regularly until he got injured.

Cause Wade Belak is horrible. Sutton can actually defend and is a top four guy in all situations on his own team.

This is a good question; I would be happy with either one but for different reasons. Smyth - he's never won a cup and would be super-duper motivated if he felt like he had a realistic shot at winning one. Nobody would play harder than him in the playoffs. He defines heart and from all account, his teamates and coaches absolutely love the guy. He would become an instant fan favorite and adopt Detroit as his own; his community involvement and charity work is well documented. He brings effort, team-first attitude, and front-net play. Bertuzzi - he's the snarl we have lacked since Shanny left. Afraid of no one and miserable to play against when he wants to be. His effort and attitude can be a question mark at times (quoted from former coaches he's had) but his overall skill set is higher than that of Smyth and he's way more comfortable carrying the puck and making plays than Smyth ever will be. He brings intimidation, checking, more offensive capability and toughness. This is such a tough question because we really don't know to what level Bert will return to form. If he can play as he did pre-Mooregate, then he's my choice, even with his inconsistency as noted by former coaches. The cost factors into the equation nowadays too. By signing Smyth we might be hindering our ability to sign a top-flight D-man or goalie (depending on Hasek). I think Bert will be cheaper, but I wouldn't be giving him any "7 year deals". I would sign Bert at no more than 3mil/yr for no more than 2yrs and a team option year. Conditional on his playing "X" number of games each year (if it's a back injury) which would reduce the length of the contract to 1yr if those "X" number of games are not reached. He may want a shorter deal anyways to re-establish himself and be eligible for free agency sooner. He already knows the players, coaches and system here and I believe Detroit fans and media have done a good job of making him feel welcome. Given that, and his less than "popular" status with other teams and fans in the leage right now I think we have a better chance of signing him than anyone else does. I'm not too worried about the pick, we seem to do ok with the later round picks anyways.