Hank

A poor econonmy sure didn't stop people from buying up every single U of M, Lions, Tigers and Pistons tickets did it? People aren't showing up to the games because of a few things - complacency being one of them. But I don't think it's a coincidence that the Wings have had issues selling tickets since guys like Stevie, Shanny and Mac have left town. It's a blue collar town and whether you want to believe it or now, guys like Pavel and Hank aren't considered blue collar. And have you looked at our starting 18 lately? Out of our 13 forwards (including an injured Cleary) we have 5 NA skaters. On our starting 6 dmen, we have 3 NA's. That's 8 out of 19 skaters. 9 out of 21 if you count the goalies. For me, I'd love to get at least 2 NA's in our top 6 forwards. Europeans don't grow up dreaming about winning the Cup. It doesn't mean they don't want to, but in my opinion a Canadian kid or American kid will, most of the time, have more passion to win the Cup than some kid growing up in Stockholm or Prague. And GoalieManPat, the reason why I bring up goaltending is because the last 5 years, how many times have we said "if we swapped the other teams goalie, we would have won". I think Ozzie is clearly the better of the two and I think he's very solid. But if the opportunity to upgrade this position, even if it means dealing away some younger prospects, is something the Wings should look into.

Kevin Allen had a great article two years ago about this subject. He dug up old articles from the 20's all the way to today. Guess what? People have whined and complained about officiating since the NHL's conception. The reason why the NHL is a 2nd-tier sport in the US is because: - only 10% of the people grow up with the game. - 50% of the games stars are either Canadian or European - the standard of 'play' has sucked the life out of the game. Look at this past Saturday's Leafs-Wings tilt. That looked absolutely nothing like the games these two teams have played over the past 80 years. It looked like the game was played in mud as the Leafs did everything they could to slow the game down and suck all life out of it. No fighting, no flow, no scoring. And that's how 90% of the games played today look like. You want the fans to come back? Fix the schedule so that the league doesn't take every Monday and Tuesday off. This will leave players more refreshed and less injuries. Encourage more fighting. SHRINK the goalies!!!! Take away composite sticks. They suck. Pucks are constantly bouncing off of them, players need to look down to see if the puck is there because they're so light and they explode from simple passes at times.

Look at the last 3 Stanley Cup winners. How many NA's did they have on their club? Anaheim, Carolina and TB all had a lot of NA's. And their best players too. (Getzlaf, Kunitz, Perry, Penner, McDonald, Pronger, Neidermayer, O'Donnell, Beauchimen, Staal, Brind'Amour, Whitney, Stillman, Cole, Lecavailer, Richards, St.Louis, Boyle, etc.) Even the runner ups all had a great NA presence to them. Sure, they had some good Europeans too, but there's a need for a good balance. Just look at the Wings last 3 Stanley Cup rosters - they had an abundance of NA talent on their top 2 scoring lines. If you want to call it racist, fine. I don't consider myself a racist but there's a definite difference between how NA's view the Cup compared to some Europeans. NHL players have said as much. Heck, look at our own Slava Kozlov. He asked why the Stanley Cup was so important. Sergei Fedorov answered "because if we win, we all make more money". Not all Euro's look at it that way, but far more do than NA's. And believe it or not, it would help at the box office too. I can't tell you how many people I've overhead saying at the Joe or even on message boards and radio shows say that they want more players they can relate to. It's human nature. Just like a Swedish star in the SEL will always be more popular than a NA star.

He'd probably appreciate a bottle of potato-vodka instead.

Younguns, I actually like the thought of Mark Bell. We really need to replace Cleary and I think Bell is almost the exact clone of him - only fights a bit more. He would come very cheap and could compliment any line well. If guys like Lapointe are unavailable I see no reason why Bell shouldn't be looked at.

I don't think I, nor anyone else here is suggesting 'blowing up the team'. But I don't think some changes similar to those made in the summer of 96 are out of line. We changed our style a bit and dumped some softer more offensive players for some grit. Like I've already stated, I like our team. But if we lose out in the 1st or 2nd round this year, I think upgrading our goaltending, adding more grit and perhaps simplifying our style from always puck possession to a little more dump and chase would increase our chances of winning the Cup. A lot of people here got ticked with Zetterbergs high-risk, low-reward backhand pass in OT against the Leafs. But that's the Wings style. We almost never make the simple play. It's no different than when Lilja coughed up the puck in OT against the Ducks last spring. 29 other teams would have wrapped it off the boards instead of cutting through the middle of the ice - especially if it's a dman like Lilja. But the Wings have built a team where the only option is to skate or pass it out. In a lot of ways I appreciate it that a lot more because most teams in the NHL are boring beyond belief. But I'd sacrifice some exciting games if it meant a better shot at the Cup. And at this point, the stock of some of our young players like Hudler and Filpulla are sky-high. They could fetch a very rich bounty.

I really like the thought of Lapointe coming back here. And with Cleary out for two months, he'd be a perfect fit. I still think Marty can provide more offense than what he's shown since moving out of Detroit as well. Most of the other names will be far too expensive. Hossa, Sundin or Jokinen will all mean players like Filpulla will be gone and unless it's a premier goalie, I wouldn't give him up for a rental. In the end, I'd be very happy with picking up either Staios or Blake and Lapointe. It would add both toughness and some scoring punch to our lineup.

Thank you for an insightful post. At least you don't throw out insults when you disagree. I understand what you're saying too. And contrary to popular belief I've thought about this long before our 3 game skid. Losing to the Ducks today isn't something I wasn't expecting. This was our 2nd game in 2 nights and 3rd in 4 nights. Not too many teams can win back-to-back - especially against the Cup winners. But if there's one thing the Wings have lacked since the lockout it's a star goalie. I for one would be happy to give up some youth/talent to acquire one. It's far, far easier to play and beat teams with a grinding style and great goaltending than it is with skill and average goaltending. I like Osgood, but let's face it. There's no way on earth he's having the same season he is now on teams like Vancouver, Phoenix or St.Louis. The Wings make him look much better than he really is. For once, it would just be nice to enter the playoffs without a big question mark hanging over our goaltender. P.S. I know that Vancouver will go all out to keep Luongo in Vancouver but nobody here knows if he'll want to stay there. Buffalo tried their best to keep Drury and Briere but they wanted out. The same could happen to Roberto. Especially if the team continues to struggle to make the playoffs and contend for a Cup. He could easily see that Detroit would have a better chance and take less money to come here - just like Rafalski and other players before him.

Who said anything about that? It's about tweaking the roster. And when Luongo becomes available after next season, I'd rather the Wings lose some talent up front for the best goalie in the league. If Vancouver can be a contender with the little they have up front and on the backend, imagine what Detroit can do with him? And while I like Ozzie, he's certainly not a premier goalie. The Wings did win with him in '98 but our team had far more depth then. But it's nice to see all the mature responses here. I forgot how many internet tough guys this forum has.

What an absolute s**t hockey game. I think the Leafs had 4 good shifts in the Wings zone the entire game and they scored 3 goals on them. All 5 goals were garbage too. And could the ice have been any worse? I'd bet my last dollar that the ice maker made sure it was nice and soft to help the Leafs win that game. The puck was bouncing like a freakin' football out there. In the end, Hasek let in 2 soft goals, the Wings dominated play for 95% of that game and the Leafs did everything they could to make that the ugliest game of the year. Yes, they got the 2 points. Good for them. They're still not going to come close to making the playoffs and they'll continue to be garbage for the next 5 years at least. Am I bitter? Absolutely. But that was one horrible, ugly hockey game and the Leafs had no business getting 1 point out of that mess let alone 2. Leafs blow.

I can't even imagine what the price would be to acquire Jokinen. The Panthers would be asking for Filpulla for sure. And if not, then prepare to open the cupboard up wide - Emmerton, Smith, Ericsson, etc would all be on their list.

I'm not so sure. We're $5M under the Cap and if rumors are correct, the Cap will increase another $3M. With that $8M you could fit Tucker's $4M and resign Cleary or Lilja. I like how Lilja's been playing but I think we have enough depth on the farm to replace him. And who's to say that the Wings can't pick up a rental dman every spring for the playoffs? We'll easily win the Central for the next 5+ years with the dmen we have now, even if it means no Lilja. It's true that Zetts will be getting a big raise for the 09-10 season, but the Cap might be even higher then. And by that time we won't have Hasek's or Drapes big contracts on the books anymore. If Drapes comes back it won't be for $2M+. It'll be closer to Maltby's. In the end I'm confident that Holland can make all the peices fit.

I would trade both those guys for Tucker in a heartbeat. I hate that littel f**ker but he'd fit in nicely on our team. Just as long as he learned not to take such retarded penalties. Giving up a depth defensive forward (who might not even pan out) and a 5th/6th dman for a bonofide NHLer who has and can score 30 goals would be a no-brainer. Besides, I think Ericsson has surpassed Quincy on the depth chart. This wouldn't hurt us in the least in the long run. EDIT: Possible Lines Cleary-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Filpulla-Zetterberg-Tucker Hudler-Franzen-Sammy Maltby-Drapes-Drake or Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Homer Cleary-Filpulla-Tucker Hudler-Franzen-Sammy Maltby-Drapes-Drake

I agree. It's why I'm preplexed at everyone wanting Dmac on our playoff roster.

I think it'd be pretty hard to dispute he's in the top 3. It's always tough to rate players who come from different eras and have different teammates. But I have to believe that if Bure had a teammate with the passing proficiency of an Oates, Trottier or Orr he could have broken Gretzky's record of 92. He was a pure joy to watch and loved to score goals. I can't remember which book I read but a former goalie said that when he first faced Bure he said it was like 9 of the skaters were standing still while Bure buzzed around everywhere. He said he was so fast, shifty and would shoot from every angle that it was like there were two games going on - one with Bure on the ice, and one without. P.S. Just checking the teams he was on, these were the top centre's he played with: Vancouver: Larionov, Nedved, Linden, Ronning, Messier (some good players but not true #1 playmaking centres in the least and one centre who was over the hill) Florida: Rob Neidermayer, Victor Kozlov, Mike Sillinger, Oli Jokinen (but this was Jokinen's first year with Florida and wasn't even close to being what he is now 80gp, 9g, 20a, 29pts) NY Rangers: Eric Lindros, Mike York, Messier, Nedved (Lindros wasn't bad at this point, but clearly not what he was in his early years while in Philly). Now if you look at the other names mentioned in this thread, many of them had some very good playmaking centres to give them the puck during the best years of their careers. I love Mike Bossy, but I don't think he scores 50+ goals for 9 seasons straight if he's on the Devils or Wings during that time. For me, the greatest feat for Bure was when he scored 58 goals and 59 goals in the 99-00, 00-01 seasons. That Florida team wasn't very good at all and it was smack-dab in the middle of the dead-puck era. If the type of hockey that was played during Bossy's, Lemieux's, Wayne's or Hull's best years at this time, I don't think it's a stretch to believe that he scores over 80 goals in either of those years. Maybe even 90+.

I have no problem with people saying he's the greatest goal scorer of all time. One reason why I'm inclined to agree is that he put up unbelievable goal numbers during the dead puck era. He was scoring at 60-goal rates when other 'goal scorers' were putting up 30 or so. And he put up huge numbers without ever having a true #1 playmaking centre to work with. Brett Hull had awesome totals but not until he had Oates with him. Bossy had Trottier too. The only other guy I'd say is close is Lemieux. I'm sure if he wanted to shoot more than pass, he'd have scored more goals himself. He could score so many different ways. I think Ovechkin could eventually go down as the games best pure goal scorer. Only time will tell.

Hahaha! Best post I've read about this whole garbage. I couldn't care less that Mr.Glass doesn't want to play with us. He wants a multi-year contract and knowing his injury prone past, he's not worth it. Whichever team 'wins' him, is going to be hurt by him more than help. I don't see him playing more than 10 games total this year.

I agree. But I think someone of Clarkes personality and low intelligence gets people on edge. I took exception to what he said because his reasons for us not being a 'powerhouse' could actually be used to suggest that we are clearly the favourite in the West for winning the Cup. Playoffs are about close, 1-goal games. And through nearly 60 games of hockey, we've proven to be the best (by far) for winning these types of games. To measure our team against the Oilers teams of the 80's is also something incredibly assinine. Two different era's, and two totally different brands of hockey. There was actually no reason to bring in that era or those teams into the discussion.

Not in any order: Crosby, Ovechkin, Lecavailer, Nash, Toews

I agree. Dave Schultz had mixed feelings about Clarke. He said he was a great leader and a very good player, but he hated how he'd cheapshot guys every night knowing that 'The Hammer' would take care of him. Shultz said there was more than one time where Clarke would whack or hack a heavyweight like Tiger Williams and he'd have to take the lumps for it. He said there were times where he'd have preferred to stay on the bench and watch Clarke get what was coming to him. Stevie will never turn into a Clarke because the man has intelligence. You can find rocks in the parking lot that are smarter than Bobby.

Paint me with the same brush! I'm still in shock that he tipped his cap before a tilt. And against Jovo of all people! I would have expected Iggy to dress in full riot gear before taking on a beast like Jovo-cop.

Exactly. Especially when you consider that almost every playoff game is decided by 1 goal, I'd say it's a great indicator that the Wings are more than capable of winning close games. If Mike Milbury and Glen Healey didn't exist, then I'd have no problem saying Bob Clarke is the dumbest hockey person alive. He quit as GM because he was too stupid to understand the new, complicated CBA. Sure, it was a breeze when there was no cap and you had the amount of money available to him in Philly. And yet he still didn't win a Cup. He also forgot the name of the teams 1st round pick in his last draft as GM of the Flyers. The man is a grade A moron. I'm actually happy he said the Wings won't win, because the man is never right. Go chop another ankle Clarkie.

http://www.spectorshockey.net/index.php?op...rs&Itemid=9 What do you guys think about a possible deal for Staios? He's a gritty dman with decent offensive skills, and a right-handed shot. I think he'd be a perfect depth move and the price would be a lot cheaper if Blake weren't available.

Besides donuts and beer. Hahaha! I'm funny!

I used to like Iginla, but now I don't. He wears a sheild down to his knees and then he picks fights with people and never takes it off. Also, he'll fight guys as tough as him just as much as he'll fight non-fighters like Mathieu Schneider or David Seguchi. For the past 3 years, Calgary has gotten a really bad reputation for starting crap once a game is out of hand. They tried it against the Wings last year and the year before that they did it against the Ducks. My favourite memory of the Ducks fiasco was watching Iginla pick a fight with Francouis Beachimen only to get the living crap kicked out of him. Calgary didn't win a game after that tilt. Mueller is getting better and better as the season progresses. Between him, Hanzal and Turris, they're going to be stacked up the middle for many years.