Hank

It didn't stop Downey from pounding on Laparrier after he hit Lidstrom. Basically the only fights the instigator seems to prevent is the ones that break out for little reason other than frustration. Phil Esposito talked about this on XM the other day and he said that this rule is shot down every year by the GM's and BOG's. It's a decision made by hockey men, not Bettman. He gave the reason why but I can't remember it now. Part of it was to prevent guys like Tootoo from picking fights with non-fighters if a game was out of hand. The NHL doesn't want injuries or a black eye for allowing senseless violence I guess. But I think the NHL needs to embrace it's roots. It's a regional sport where the fans that do show up are rabid for it. let them have the hockey they grew up on.

Sold!

I don't know about that. I don't think an enforcer who wouldn't fight because of a game misconduct is worth much. I think the issue is two-fold; 1. There's far less respect in the league. Back in the day the players didn't seem as blood thirsty to kill someone. Look at some of the players today. Between guys like Hartnell, Downie and Hollweg, we have a number of players who love to hit from behind, slash, whack or make dangerous plays. Most teams have a number of these types of guys. There's so much competition to make the NHL that most players will do whatever it takes to stay in the big leagues. Back in the day, Probert would have killed anyone who slashed Yzerman. But now, everyone is whacking and hacking out there. A guy like Probert would be in the hospital from torn ligaments in his shoulders from throwing so many punches. 2. 15-20 years ago, most players fought. Even just one or two a season. Because of that, players were weary of being idiots because they knew most guys would hold you accountable. But now, that's not the case. A great majority of players never drop the gloves. And the mentality has changed to the point where it's not expected of them. In 1985, if you were a 30 goal scorer but slashed someone or made a dangerous hit on someone who took exception, you were expected to defend yourself or else you were a chicken or turtle. But today, if someone like Jeff Carter drilled someone from behind, nobody would say anything about him turtling if the other guy dropped the mitts.

That was a great blog. Thanks for posting it. I liked some of the things he mentioned; like how 15 years ago everyone was a tough guy and accountable for their actions. But how there's a lot of shenanigans going on now. That's in part to the instigator rule, but I find it's a lot more to do with a younger generation that feels more protected with the better armor and in part because of the European influence. I know guys that have played over there and while North American's were punching each other in the face, Europeans were slashing and hacking. Now it seems that kind of hockey has amalgamated into the NHL. Phil Esposito talks about how when they went over to Sweden before the '72 Summit Series began, they played a few exhibition games. He said the stick work was unbelievable. He had never seen anything like it. One area where I disagree with Laraque though, is how completely necessary a tough guy is to winning. The Wings have been one of the most successful teams since the lockout, winning the President's Trophy twice, going to the Conference finals twice and winning one Cup and yet we never had a full-time or top 15 goon. Anyway, his best point is when he speaks about the entertainment value of a tough guy. I couldn't agree more. The Wings are exciting now, but the Wings of the 80's were exciting for different reasons. Between spectacular offensive brillance by Yzerman you could expect a few great tilts with Kocur and Probert. Not to mention some of their middleweights like Gallant, Barr and Snepts. That was a great tough team to watch. Anway, thanks for posting his blog. Cheers!

A guy I work with got free tickets to the Wings game last night - and in a suite. So I took a buddy of mine who's a big Oilers fan and off to the Joe we go. I've been in a suite before so we take the elevator to floor 4 where all of them reside. However, when we get to the floor, all of the suite's are numbered while my ticket shows "Suite E". We ask an employee and they said "You should be on floor 3. Suite E is a Super Suite". So we take the elevator to floor 3 where we're ushered into Mike and Marion Illitch's private suite. There's a full bar, a buffet with lobster tail, fillet Mignon, shrimp, salad bar and other unbelievable food. After a couple of drinks and something to eat, who walks in? Ken Holland! He stops by and talks to me and my buddy for about 10 minutes. We talk hockey and what he does in a day as a GM, etc. It was really cool. Soon after he leaves our table, who's next to walk over? STEVE YZERMAN! It was hilarious that he introduced himself "Hey guys, I'm Steve". So humble. He talked hockey with us too for about 10 minutes. We talked about his role as GM of Team Canada, how much traveling he does, how much time he has at home these days (compared to his playing days), etc. What was really cool was how he was telling us stuff about the Olympics that you would never think he'd repeat to a couple of zilches like us at a Wings game. Anyway, my friend and I came away extremely impressed with both Yzerman and Holland. Not just because they were gracious and accommodating, but because they actually talked to us like they gave a crap. I've met some athletes or celebrities before, but usually they're looking right through you just waiting to end the conversation and move on. But both Steve and Kenny talked to us like any of our friends would when discussing hockey or just shooting the poop. We both said it would have been nice to get an autograph or picture (even though we didn't have a camera or anything to sign), but we both agreed it seemed much cooler to have an actual conversation with them instead of getting something quickly signed and nothing else. We also talked with Marian Illitch for a while. She was really nice and looked far younger than her age. Mike Illitch also walked around and mingled for a bit, but spent most of the time in his private section of the suite. I don't blame him. He probably has to do this a lot and to be honest, if I was an owner I'd be just as interested in watching the game too. The suite itself was really nice with a big bay-type window to watch the game with bar stools in front. All of the seats were taken so we walked to another suite seating area across from the main one. My buddy and I had the whole thing to ourselves. It was the coolest to be sitting in this suite, having a drink and soaking in the game. The day I married my wife and witnessed the birth of my two sons are the three greatest and most important days of my life. But last night was the coolest I've ever experienced.

Pierre Labrun commented on HNIC a few weeks ago that there is a legit hatred between AO and Malkin. From what he's heard, it could lead to a serious rift with the 2010 Russian Olympic team. There's competition, but the way AO acts everytime they play the Penguins is beyond competitive sportsmanship. Not that I'll complain. I love it!

Hahaha! Trust me, even though I know it might have killed a bit of the 'cool' moment, if I had a camera on me I would have asked for one. I was even going to tell him, "Sorry Steve. I have to ask for a picture or my wife will brand me a liar". If $2500 is all it takes to do that again, I would be all over it. In fact, it would be awesome if the members here could join forces to have an event like this. If it allows you access to Illitch's suite along with meeting Stevie and Kenny, it would totally be worth doing. It would also be cool to do that 4-on-4 hockey against Holland, Kocur, Redmond and a few other former wings. That'd be a riot!

LOL. Your hate will keep me warm at night. I've said it too much already in this thread, but I have to say it again. That's what was so awesome about the experience. It wasn't a typical 'stand in line and wait for autograph' thing. I actually got to have a relaxed conversation about hockey with one of the greatest players of all time, and the best GM in the league.

If he was doing this on any other team, I think he'd be getting a lot more publicity nationally. But with guys like Lidstrom, Zetts, Dats and Hossa, he's getting buried - which I think helps him. I'm still astounded as to where this guy came from. I know that he was a hockey phenom at 15 in Sweden, but because of various reasons, his offensive side never got a chance to blossom until late last year. Now it seems like he would actually have to work not to score in a game. It's going to make this summer very interesting. I'm sure the Wings would love to keep Zetts, Franzen and Hossa, but I don't know if that's possible. Franzen for all we know could get over $6M a year on the open market. Lord knows, as long as Sather's out there, anything's possible. But who knows? Maybe all three will take a home-town discount for long 7-year contracts. I'm done thinking that anythings impossible when Holland and co. are concerned. I'm actually starting to be more shocked if we don't get guys like Rich Nash for a measly 7th rounder. Hollands Kung-Fu is very strong.

Hahaha. I always envisioned myself acting like that too. And believe me when I say that when I first saw him in the room, I was speechless and nervous. But the nervousness came from wondering how I could approach him to say 'hello' and worrying that I would be bothering him. But I didn't want to see him and not at least say 'hi'. I would have been upset at myself if that would have occurred. But then he came over and approached us in such an easy going way that it was very easy to talk to him. Even writing this I think I sound like a weenie. He's just another guy, I know. But I guess actually meeting him brought back the kid in me. I hope everyone here gets to meet their hockey (or celebrity) hero at some point in their life. It's something I'll never forget. Even my Oilers buddy has been emailing me all day going on and on about what an awesome experience it was. But he now says he can no longer sit in a regular seat. It's a suite or nothing. Hahaha.

LOL. I always thought I'd act the same way. Not at all. He's not originally from the US so hockey isn't his thing. He didn't seem to care at all and actually took more joy in the fact of how geeked I was in the whole thing. Someone asked how he got these tickets. The evening was sponsored by the Motor City Casino. Since he was a high roller there, they gave him and 12 other people passes to the suite. So if you're into gambling and have lots of money, start blowing it there. You could be in Illitch's private suite before you know it!

Hahaha! Something tells me my wife will be getting first crack. I asked her to go first, but she thought that my buddy, who's a big Oilers fan, should get a chance to go. But this was when we all thought it was a regular suite.

I got the impression that it's a suite you can rent out at certain times of the year. That night, it was the Motor City Casino who sponsored the evening. I'm pretty sure everyone was invited last night has dropped a bunch of money there and probably has 'diamond' status or something. My coworker said he goes there often, so he must have been rewarded with these tickets. He really doesn't like hockey so it would have been a wasted night for him. I'm lucky that he didn't. I'm tempted to find out how available that suite is. I can only guess at how much it would cost or what kind of standing, as a company, you need to possess to get in there.

LOL. Actually it was. For that one night he was a Wings fan. He's a huge Oiler/Gretzky fan but even he said he was in awe of meeting Yzerman. Thanks! I had to share it here because I know so many members would have been thrilled to experience it as well. Yzerman was always my hockey hero growing up so I've always wanted to meet him some day. It's a thrill to say that I had the opportunity to not only meet him but to actually talk hockey with him - even if it was for only 10 minutes. The experience was made even greater when we discovered what a nice and gracious person he was. And I really can't say anything more about Holland either. You could tell that he loves his job (which I asked him about) and would talk hockey for hours if he had the time. I've always read that hockey players are the nicest athletes around and from what I experienced last night, the reputation is well earned.

The owners decide who's the commissioner. From what I've read it sounds like Bettman has a great majority of the owners behind him. It's the reason why he got a long extension a couple of years ago. Make no mistake, Bettman is the owners puppet. He does what they want. Regarding the complaint on the PP's when a team is down, this has always happened in hockey since the beginning of time. If a team got penalized and scored on, you can guarantee that the other team would get mutlipe PP opportunities until the game was tied up. I'm actually a lot happier with the officiating this year than the past 3. I felt all of the calls last night were good ones.

I know. I'm not sure I have the vernacular to describe this properly, but he really held himself well in this regard. Not once did you get the impression that he felt he was awesome or should be treated differently from anyone else. Both he and Holland seemed very down to earth. I can only imagine how many times they have to do meet-and-greets and mingle with people they don't know and yet they were both incredibly friendly and gracious. Marian Illitch was like this too. She sat and talked with a lot of people in the suite like they were old friends. Everyone involved with the suite was extremely accommodating as well. And the plethora of photo's on the walls were awesome too. There were a few of Jeff Daniels with the Illitch's, a photo of Anna Kornikova and of course all the regular action shots of past glory. It was a once-in-a-lifetime event and something I hope I never forget.

Basically how he felt it would be a mistake for the NHL to stop sending pro's to the tournament and some of the politics that are behind that.

I'd give the decision to May. He ended on top of McCarty with Mac being the first one to fall. Advantage: May. I agree. If Mac is having issues beating old man May, then Downey should be in the lineup and not Mac. McCarty doesn't scare anyone anymore. And that's the whole point of carrying an enforcer in the first place - to make guys fear for their lives if they're going to run the skilled guys.

That is an excellent point. I like Fedorov, but your assessment of him is bang-on. He took a lot of nights off (although he did play extremely well in the playoffs), left Detroit because he wanted to cast his own shadow and still to this day, his reasons for leaving change over night. I can't recall how many different excuses I've heard. And yet many Wings fans love and adore this guy. Why? Because he was able to produce on the ice when it mattered. Just like Crosby - who took less money to stay with the Penguins - unlike Fedorov. You can't explain. Because anyone who thinks like you is irrational. You wouldn't trade Crosby for Samuelsson? Thank goodness you're not a GM in this league. The kid crys over some penalties and he's no longer valuable to this team? There is no excuse or rationale to your line of thinking that could explain why other than a generous helping of jealousy and ignorance. This kid is 21 years old, has averaged more points-per-game than anyone else since he entered the league, has won the Hart, the Art Ross and led his team to the Cup Finals in less time than Wayne Gretzky did. And all he did last year was lead his team in playoff scoring after missing 2 months with a major leg injury. Yeah, you're right. This kid is such a whiney baby and headcase that he couldn't possibly fit in with the Wings or provide anything to this team. I can see people argueing not giving up both Zetts and Dats for Crosby. It's understandable and I appreciate a lot of the insight and reasoning behind it. It's a healthy debate. But I simply don't understand where people like yourself are coming from. Where is this crazy hate for this kid coming from? 29 other teams in this league would give their left leg, left arm and left nut to get this kid on their clubs. Ignorance is the only reason why someone like yourself would make such a claim.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/10/15/kelly_qa/

I hope so. Helm deserves to stay. He's been terrific in every game so far.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves either. We got this 'classy' reputation based on how the players are treated. It came more from Illitch, Holland and Yzerman than the players on the ice. Maltby will never, ever be classified as classy. He wears a shield down to his knees, starts crap but never, EVER backs it up by dropping the gloves and is constantly yapping to opponents and referees. Draper can also yap with the best of them. I see him crying to refs all the time as well. Kronwall, while I love the guy, has many questionable hits by leaving his feet, and I guarantee if he was playing for another team and laid one of these jump-hits to Zetts or Dats he would be enemy #1 on these boards. And what about Bertuzzi? I only saw 2 people on these boards that hated him here because of his reputation. Almost everyone else loved him in the Winged wheel. This guy's personality was described as cantankerous on his best days, yet he fit in fine and the crowd loved him. And Holland would have loved to have him back as well. I like this site, but it's appalling to see the rose-colored glasses that many wear. Not all of our players are classy. Not all play clean 100% of the time. What separates the Wings from most other organizations is the class of our owner who is commited to building a great team every year and how he's treated his players, managers and coaches. We could trade for Jarku Ruttu, Chris Simon and Ryan Holweg and we'd still be a classy organization. Not taking Crosby because he gets ticked at the refs or refuses to blow the Wings after losing the first two games of the Cup finals is ludicrous. This kid would do nothing but give 1000% every game. And would definitely help sell more tickets too. While I love Zetts and Dats, you couldn't say that about either of them after their first 2 or 3 seasons.

A very fair question. However, talents like Crosby always rise to the top. It's also easy to speculate that Gretzky would have never scored 200+ points 4 times if he didn't play for the Oilers. Probably not. Sather loved to run and gun and gave him the partners to do so. We also have to remember that Crosby plays for a defensive-minded coach. What if he were playing for Bruce Boudreau who likes his players to be aggressive? Or what if Crosby was drafted by the Wings? There's a good chance he would have averaged 140 points a year by now. All I know is, I've seen Crosby do things with the puck, and make plays, that I haven't seen anyone else in this era do. He's a 21 year old kid, who can dominate in a league that is ultra-conservative. If he can remain healthy, it'll be interesting to see what he can do 6 years from now. Look at Dats and Zetts. Both weren't even close to the NHL at 21-years old. At 23 they were both 3rd line players. It wasn't until their mid-20's that they were emerging as top-line players. And both played on an extremely gifted team with loads of talent. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if you put a 28-year-old Crosby on this team right now, he could probably score 150-160 points. The guy made Andy Hilbert a point-per-game guy for crying out loud. Imagine what he could do surrounded by the talent the Wings possess. Wow! That's a very strong statement. You do realize that both Wayne and Mario were critized for being whiney too, don't you? Would you not like them either? This guys character definitely fits into this team and everywhere else. All he wants to do is win. Look at Datsyuk. It wasn't until the playoffs two seasons ago that he embodied what it took to win. And he admitted that when he spoke to Yzerman before the '07 playoffs. I saw a player that ran from the puck to avoid hits. I saw a player that didn't dig deep to win important games. Has Crosby ever done that in his short career? Never. He's the first one in the corner and in front of the net. Just because he whines now and then, doesn't mean he can't fit our system. Chris Chelios is one of the biggest whiners in the league. He's constantly bitching to refs on and off the ice. And yet, I've never seen anyone say he can't play here. Homer gives a good ear full too all the time. Zetts and Dats don't complain because it's not their nature - like a lot of Europeans. Meanwhile, Canadians can have a lot of emotion on the ice. From Wayne, Mario to Esposito (who always cried!). To say you'd hate to see him in a Wings jersey because of his whining is a very brash statement. And while many might echo it here, I can guarentee you a great majority of the anit-Crosby fans would be the first ones in line to buy his jersey if he was dealt here. I seriously don't get the hate for this kid. But then again, I never understood it when people hated on Gretzky either.

Not if Sammy was shooting.

I wouldn't say that at all. It's only been this season that he's been given PK time. And from the few games I've seen this year, he's a good penalty killer. He just needs time to learn it a bit more. Besides, with other vets on the team, he wouldn't have to be counted on to kill penalties all the time. Anyway, this is a great debate and I'm sure everyone who's on one side of the fence won't be convinced to come over to the other side. But for me, I'd love to have Crosby on this team - even if the price was this steep.