Hank

Then perhaps they should be more disciplined. Sure, they might have had a bad call here or there but most of the penalties they took were warrented. And from how they played in the past 2 games, they could have had 0 penalties and still only scored 2 combined goals. They were classic playoff-type games where both Vancouver and Calgary employed a proven strategy to beating the Wings. A strategy the Wings have yet to resolve in 3+ years. Get ready to see a lot more of that in April.

Thanks Vladdy!

I'm really tired of people whining about the officiating in the NHL. In all the hockey boards I visit it seems if your team loses it's because the refs are terrible. I've watched the last 5 games and while there have been some bad calls against the Wings, there have been an equal amount of ball calls against their opposition. But saying that, I'd say at least 90% of the penalties the Wings have been whistled for, they've deserved them. In both the Vancouver and Calgary games they took some terrible penalties because they couldn't handle the speed and tenacity of their forecheckers. And in some cases, we didn't stay disciplined enough to ignore some of the agitators that have been thrown out against us. It's not the refs fault that we never have a guy in front of the net. It's also not the refs fault that we can't, or won't, fight for the middle of the ice (where many games are won and lost). The Wings need to point the finger at themselves, not the officials, for wins and losses.

***As of today's standings West 1. NSH 2. ANA 3. VAN 4. DET 5. MIN 6. SJ 7. DAL 8. CGY East 1. BUF 2. NJ 3. ATL 4. OTT 5. PIT 6. TB 7. NYR 8. CAR 1st Rd NSH over CGY in 6 ANA over DAL in 5 VAN over SJ in 6 MIN over DET in 5 BUF over CAR in 5 NYR over NJ in 6 ATL over TB in 5 OTT over PIT in 6 2nd Rd NSH over MIN in 5 ANA over VAN in 7 BUF over NYR in 6 OTT over ATL in 5 3rd Rd ANA over NSH in 5 OTT over Buf in 7 SC Finals ANA over OTT in 7 Notes: I don't see Detroit getting past the 1st round unless they play Dallas. After watching them get totally owned in back-to-back playoff-like games I don't see us beating any other teams in the West. We're still a classic regular season team that can't handle aggressive forechecks, can't solve the trap and can't take over the middle of the ice. Both Vancouver and Calgary easily took away the middle ice and we had nobody besides Jiri Hudler and Kyle Calder attempt to drive to the net. I know we didn't have Zetts and Bert in the lineup but the in both those games we took a lot of penalites and it wasn't because of poor officiating. It was because both teams kept moving their feet and beating us to loose pucks, forcing our boys to hook and grab (sound familiar?). I hope I'm wrong but I saw too many things the past 2 games that reminded me of the last 3 early playoff exits. I'm not sold on Buffalo either. The reason why I took Ottawa to make it out of the East is that I believe they have the most regulation wins over the top 10 teams in that conference. Both Buffalo and Pittsburgh have been feasting off of 4-on-4 play in OT and the shootouts. That won't be available to them in the playoffs. Plus, I think Buffalo is going to run into injury problems again. If Ottawa doesn't win it, I can see New Jersey making it to the finals again. I had them losing in the 1st round because there's always a 1st round upset and because I despise the Devils and their boring-ass organization I'm hoping it's them. If Pronger comes back 100% I don't see anyteam that can slow them down. They are the most balanced team in the NHL with both offense, defense, goaltending and grit. And anytime you can have at least one of two Norris Trophy winners, in their prime, on the ice for the entire game I think you've got the upperhand. But what do I know? It'll probably be VAN, MIN, OTT, NJ in the final 4 with Vancouver winning the Cup. As a Canadian, I'd love to see Ott and Van in the finals.

So there's a thread at HFBoards about 150 point players. I made a comment about how Yzerman got 155 that year despite playing with relatively lesser linemates. I'm not taking anything away from Gerard Gallant as I love that dude but Paul MacLean crapped the bed in the 2nd half of that 88-89 season. I went on to explain how I thought Yzerman could have had a lot more points if he ever had a better winger or dman to work with. So some clown comes on there saying how the fact that Stevie got 150+ points that year was no big deal because 3 other players did it that year too and that Yzerman is no better than #48 on his all time, best offensive players list. I argued that there were 4 players that reached the 150 point plateau that season but that two of them were named Gretzky and Lemieux and the 3rd guy (Bernie Nichols) played with Wayne and got a bucket full of PP points playing with the Great One. I then also argued that Esposito had some unbeleivable teammates the year he hit 152 pts and compared them to Yzermans. Gerard Gallant was the closest to Stevie that year with 93 points while Esposito had 3 teammates record over 100 points including one of the greatest players of all time, Bobby Orr (139 pts). I still can't believe how some people refuse to give Stevie credit for what he was in his prime. Even that year he dislocated a vertabrae in his spine he was able to come back and nearly score 90 points in only 58 games. John Warton said that his back was so bad and he was in so much pain that he literally could barely hold his arms above his head and yet the dude went out and scored at a 112 pt pace. This idiot at HF even had the audacity to say that Stan Makita was a better offensive player than Yzerman. What a joke! Makita was a very good player but he had Bobby Hull on his wing for most of his career. Yzerman never had a top guy playing with him like some players such as Lafontaine (Mogilny), Hull (Oates), Oates (Hull, Neely), Messier (Kurri), Esposito (Orr, Bucyk), etc. Only Sakic and Jagr are players I would say are comparable to Yzermans' offensive skills during his prime. I still wonder how many points or how effective Yzerman would be today if he never bashed his knee or wrecked his back. That knee and back injury was a total fluke, not some degenerative, oft injured thing like Lindros has. Even in his last season you could see that Stevie had the same vision and hands back in the day. If he had stayed healthy I have no doubt he'd still be playing today and could put up the same type of numbers that Sakic is now given the same amount of TOI and wingers. EDIT: Sorry for the long rant, but I'm pretty fired up about it. I had the pleasure to watch Yzerman in his prime while other great players like Wayne, Mario, Sakic and Messier (among others) were in their primes, or close to it too, played. I think I'm right about YZerman's offensive skills during that time. And I know some older guys that had the privaledge of watching greats like Beleveau, Orr, Esposito, Statsny, Bobby Hull who have said that Yzerman is one of the greatest ever. Heck, Pavel Bure once said that Yzerman and Lemiuex were the two greatest hockey players he's ever seen. And that was during the same time when Hull, Messier, Sakic, Lafontaine were in their primes as well.

I still think both Wayne and Mario were better than Howe. If my team is down a goal with 1 minute left I'd take both Gretzky and Lemiuex over Howe on the ice. And I'd probably even take Yzerman over Howe in that situation too. Howe was awesome, no question about that, but I saw some games where Yzerman was able to take over games with this offensive skills. Does anyone else remember a game in the 92-93 season where Stevie showed up to a game against the Hawks on crutches because of a bad groin? He went on to record a hattrick and 2 assists. He was absolutely dominating that game and that entire season. Man he had a sweet pair of hands and incredible vision.

And nobody here knows if Vladdy himself told her to divorce him for the sake of her life and the kids. I grew up with a kid who's father had MS. Eventually, his condition deteriorated so badly that he needed constant care and really couldn't do much for her or his kid. He begged her to leave him to find someone else to live her life with. She did it. The guy was in his 30's at the time. Maybe this isn't the course of action some or most would take but I'm not going to judge anyone for their decisions. It's so easy to say what someone should do when you haven't walked an inch in their shoes. I understand that but I think his divorce is a huge part of this article and his life.

Detroit has every right in the world to be the first to move to the Eastern Conference but it will never happen. Lets face it, oustide of Detroit there isn't a big name team in the West that can really draw. Maybe if Chicago wasn't such a joke or if Sidney Crosby got traded to a Western team. But until then, the NHL will pimp out Detroit to draw more fans in a conference that already has too many poor hockey markets.

NEVER, underestimate the owners greed or lack of forsight. They would expand to 30 more cities if it menat more sweet expansion fees.

I have no problem with that. But then why hasn't he done that with half of this team? Jason Williams is a great example of someone who needed a lot of kicks in the ass. And Sammy and Leilja need a boat load of ass kickings still. And yet Babcock treats them with baby-gloves. I'm sure that there is a method to his madness but it would be nice if he spread it around to more than just one player. I'm so sick and tired of watching Sammy and Andreas eat up ice time that could go to players that are actually effective and useful. If we're going to compare what Babock is doing to what Bowman did fine. But like I said earlier, Bowman spared no-one the rod. He went after everyone at one time or another. With B'cock, everyone's on the Love boat except for Hudler who's stuck on the dingy. Maybe that's a good reason why players like Sammy and Leijla, along with former wing JW looked terrible in the playoffs and in most big games.

What other choice did he have? Sammy, Zetts, Cleary and Homer were all out of the lineup. Who would he put with Dats and Lang? His only choices were Calder and Filp. After that is he really going to give Lang Ellis or Hussey or Bootland? Hudler got onto the 2nd line through injuries alone. And then when the kid started punching goals in he had 0 choice but to keep him there. And doesn't anyone else here remember the crap he said about Hudler at the beginning of training camp? He was constantly bashing his game. I didn't hear him say a bad thing about anyone else besides Jiri. At least with Bowman there was always a full doghouse. But with Babcock that room is reseverd for Hudler. Heck, he even like Lielja more that Huds. I'm sure that Babcock doesn't dislike Hudler personally, but I guarentee you Babcock would not have Hudler anywhere near his 1st, 2nd or 3rd line as long as he is in Detroit if it weren't for the injury bug. If it weren't for so many guys going down we might never have seen what this kid can really do. And if I'm wrong then why was Hudler never, ever given a shot with the top two centres when we were struggling earlier on in the season? He gave Cleary a 2nd line spot over Hudler for crying out loud! Sure, Cleary responded beautifuly (at first) but Cleary has never been an offensive guy in the AHL or NHL. At least Hudler lit up the A. I'm just glad that Jiri has actually taken advantage of his well earned ice time, unlike players like Jason Williams, Mikael Samuelson and Andreas Leijla. Guys who constantly seem to get their butts kissed by B'cock.

Man does Babcock not like Hudler eh? He heaps praise on players like Lang, Jason Williams and Sammy despite the fact that all 3 barely show up or make horrible plays (like NEVER hitting the net! Sammy, I'm talking to you!). But Hudler gets little to no ice-time and he still manages to score more goals than his precious Jason Williams. And then, being forced to play Hudler on the 2nd line with topline minutes due to injury, all the kid does is score huge goals and make great plays and yet that insufferable SOB Babcock can't hand him out a compliment without adding in a backhanded comment. Maybe if Hudler started coughing up the puck and never finishing plays, or missing empty nets like Jason Williams, he'll finally get some praise from B'cock. Everyone can see Hudler has great offensive upside to him. He has a shooters mentality and he's capable of doing something that few forwards in the league can - score from the high slot. It's not like he doesn't mind going into the trenches but the kid can flat out rifle from way out. He kind of reminds me of Joe Sakic the way he can get the shot off so quickly and how hard and accurate it is. He hardly ever misses the net and takes smart shots unlike Sammy. Give this kid his due Babcock! What bothers me about his lack of respect for Hudler is that when everyone gets healthy Hudler will be the odd man out when in reality either Sammy or Cleary should be sitting. Or maybe even Filpulla.

Why? It's incredibly well done. It even lists all the fights Yzerman has been in (6 if you're wondering).

I haven't heard or read anything of the sort. And I'm very surprised. They came out with that book "Nineteen" very quickly but nothing on DVD. I would pay top $$$ for a DVD of Stevie that featured highlights from his junior days all the way to his retirement. P.S. That book "Nineteen" is excellent! And it's very bizarre to see Stevie with a 70's hairdo while playing Junior Tier II.

I understand your point. But like you said, Pronger had a lot more games under his belt by 26 than Kronwall. Look at Jay Bowemeester. He's been in the league for a few seasons now but he hasn't developed into Scott Neidermeyer like so many thought he would. But I wouldn't right him off yet either. Give Kroner time. He'll be worth the wait.

Absolutely! 9 points in 7 games says it all. Meanwhile, JW has 3 points in 7 games with Chicago.

Agreed. Two totally different kinds of players. Draper is all speed and no hands who is extremely effective as a PK player. Hudler, while having agile feet, has no straight ahead speed, great hands and great offensive instincts while still learning to be responsible in his own end (see PP specialist).

Agreed. Generally, dmen take a lot longer to develop than forwards. Look at Rusy Klesla. Here's a former top pick who looked like he was a giant bust. But this year he really came on the scene and it looks like he could be one of the best defensemen in the leauge for the next decade. Even Pronger was horrible to begin with. Give Kronwall time. You also have to take into consideration that Schneider has been eating a lot of PP time (where most points come for dmen). Next season #23 won't be around and you'll see Kroner take that next step. I don't know if he'll be HOF material but I think it's realistic to think he can be a 50+ point defender who has the ability to change a game with a big hit and can move the puck out of his zone with the best of them.

Can you really blame anyone? This team has had unbelievable regular season success the past 3 seasons and how many playoff rounds have we won in that time? 1. And while the team does appear to have a bit more grit this season in games that have looked more like playoff contests the Wings have failed to show up. Do you really think it was a fluke or surprise that Dave Lewis blew into town and dominated his former club? What did Pierre McGuire say that Babcock was adamant about during the 2nd intermission? "Take control of the middle ice!". Lewis knows full well the weaknesses of this club. He knows, like all other coaches in the NHL, that if you keep the Wings to the paremeter and institute an aggressive forecheck you can beat them. And that's exactly what Boston did. BOSTON! One of the worst teams this season. For me, I'm really going to try and enjoy the playoffs this year, win or lose. I have no delusions of granduer and to be completely honest I'll be ecstatic if we make it to the 2nd round. I still don't think the Wings have enough scoring on the wings, enough grit or the ability to counter an aggressive forecheck. This all means that a 1st round exit is entirely possible. Sure, Hasek might have been able to steal us that 1st round last year but in all seriousness do you really believe they had what it took to defeat the Sharks or Ducks? I don't. The above strategies also allow other teams goalies to look much better than they really are. Sure, we'll get 50 shots but 45 of them will be from over 25 feet out with nobody in front of the net. This team has better goaltending and a better 6 dman corp, but you still can't win games if you can't score more than 2 goals, on average, in the playoffs. The Wings desperately need Bertuzzi to come back 100%, Datsyuk to show up, and get a timely goal from their 3rd line. And I'm not convinced we can get even 1of the 3.

Yeah. The PA always brings up the magic word "safety" and that pretty much kills the conversation. Campbell has said before that as long as the PA plays that angle they can't do anything as it would create an unsafe work environment. What I wish the NHL would do is contract out a goalie manufacturer and have them create upperbody padding that is both streamlined and safe. If a cop can wear bulletproof protection under a T-shirt, certainly Bauer or Brians can create chest and arm protection to be streamlined as well. If they can prove that they can be just as safe, or moreso, with half-sized equipment, then there should be no debate. I still get incredibly annoyed when I see goalies like Ryan Miller and his 140 lbs scrawny behind in equipment that makes him look like Shrek. It says a lot when 6'4", 207 lb Ken Dryden wore a size 48 jersey and Kelly Hrudey (5'9", 160 lbs) wore a size 60.

I laugh at their fans too because they'll be the first ones to say that 'good defense is just as exciting as good offense' or something even more rediculous like 'a John Madden back check is just as exciting as an Ovechkin end-to-end rush" (I actually had Devils fan say this to me). But they have to say that because that's all they have. If you suddenly gave them the Penguins roster they'd be singing another tune. And like you said, anyteam that can't even sell out a Stanley Cup game doesn't deserve to be in the NHL. I can't argue with anything you've said here. The goalie equipment still needs to be addressed but I think the PA will fight that till the bitter end (hence the bigger net debate - which is a Colin Campbell idea, not Bettman). Anyway, it's for those exact reasons that I support the 'new' NHL and it's standard of officiating. The sport desperately needed to be cleaned up with all the obstruction and they're finally doing it. It's not perfect and it may take another season or two but I feel the game is 100x better than what it was. When they finally get things ironed out, it will be the best hockey product we've seen.

Don't get me started! Everything about that franchise is boring as poop. From their city to their jerseys to their emblem. Even Lou would cure the most hardened insomniac. And remember their Cup celebration? How they basically only circled their arena 3 times before heading inside? They don't even have a nice road to drive down to parade the Cup. Man I wish they would just fold!

Bettman certainly deserves some of the blame for what's happened with the NHL. When the Rangers won in 94 it seemed like the NHL was on the verge of busting into the National sports psyche. But it's not all Bettman's fault. Over-expansion (caused by greedy owners), a work stoppage that didn't fix any problems, oversized goalie equipment and the nuetral zone trap coupled with obstruction, hooking and holding really kiboshed any momentum the league had going. Hopefully this new CAP coupled with not allowing obstruction should help. But it's a long road to travel.

You're absolutely right. I'm sure he cries himself to sleep everynight when he thinks about how he got the players to take paycut while adding a CAP. Yup, I'm sure the owners are pissed at him! The TV deal debate is up in the air. It's the classic, would you rather be a big fish in a little pond or a small fish in the ocean. I know that when ESPN did have the NHL it was arduous at times just to find a game. With vs. you always know their schedule and their pre-game and post-game coverage blows anything ESPN ever did out of the water. And lets not forget what someone else here pointed out, it was the only deal available. ESPN wanted the rights for free. VS was offering up 9 digits. Which deal would you take if you were an owner? At least 19 of the 30 agreed that VS was the better choice. Get over it. EDIT: I wanted to ask why do people think ESPN was such a great promoter in the first place? It's not like the NHL was soaring into the national landscape while being on that station. It's not like ESPN went out of their way to promote the NHL. The ratings, per capita are the same or even better with VS. Sure, there aren't as many subscribers but it's a new channel, we have to have some foresight here; something I hear people shouting for from the owners and the league over and over again. And why do people care really? Hockey is such a niche sport that it's asinine to think that Joe Rodriguez in New Mexico is suddenly going to become a hockey fan because he has ESPN and he's too lazy to turn the station when an NHL game pops up. ESPN didn't do squat for growing the sport. At least VS is treating it like the wonderful sport it is and not the ugly stepchild that ESPN branded it.

sibiriak & betterREDthandead, I think we are in the minority as far as rational thinkers concerning Gary Bettman. That post about "I think the owners should abandon the NHL so Bettman can do whatever he wants with the league" was the funniest thing I've ever read. THE OWNERS ARE THE NHL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Gary Bettman is hired BY THE OWNERS TO DO WHAT THE OWNERS WANT!!! If the nets become larger it's not because Bettman said so it's because the BOG and the Competition Committee pushed it through. Geez people, please, get some sense into your heads!!!! This discussion should go right up there with "Kris Draper has a NO TRADE CLAUSE so please stop saying 'lets trade Draper'". I agree that Bettman isn't always right and there are arguments that you can make against him but please have some intelligence on the subject. Bettman is not the KING of the NHL. It's not a communist system or a monarchy. Bettman does what the BOG wants. Simple as that. If the Wings stay in the West it's because the BOG wants it that way. If the NHL expands to Mexico it's because the BOG approved it, not Bettman. Bettman only serves to get what the BOG wants; simple as that. What's next? Punching the Gerber baby in the face because you don't like 'Smashed Peas'?