Hank

Where did I ever say that one man can do it alone? In fact, my whole original post was about how we needed more offensive depth to take the heat off the top line. Of course no man can do it alone. But some players have shown to do way more with way less. Steve Yzerman made Gerard Gallant a 40 goal scorer. And on many nights, Yzerman won games all by himself. Zetts will never be in that class but he has more intangibles to do that than Dats. Dats only passes and because of that he's dependant on his linemates to score goals. Z has more ability to create offense with nobody than Dats. That was simply my point. And what 'jibber jabber'? All I've done is spout out the truth. Datsyuk is not a good playoff player and we can do it without him. In fact, we have to do it in spite of him. We all know he isn't going to do anything in the playoffs so they should have dealt him for someone that can. You're return argument will be "if that were true Holland would have dealt him" but that doesn't hold water. This is the same man that gave Leijla and Williams extentions. Holland has issues with letting core guys he inherited walk. He's scared. If anything, you're the one that keeps spouting off jibber-jabber. I've supplied proof and opinions grounded in facts that backup my argument entirely. You keep coming back with hateful insults because your feelings seem to be hurt over a player you adore. You've yet to disprove anything that I've written on the subject and yet you still feel the need to retort with insults telling me I'm wrong with nothing more than doubletalk and swearing. Again, I'll spell it out for you since it doesn't appear to be clear: P.Datsyuk playoff stats - 42GP, 3G, 12A, 15Pts (.35 Points-per-game, .07 goals-per-game.) Last playoff goal, May 31st, 2002. Nearly 5 calendar years ago. That does all the talking needed for me. The whole point to this thread is that Mark Spizzirri believes we need more defense to go deep in the playoffs. I argued that defense is not our problem since we're a one line team with two great offensive players - one of which turns into a lame duck when April rolls around. So obviously we need a true scoring winger for Lang to balance the attack. Again, tell me where my assessment is wrong? Am I the only one here that sees this obvious need? Or are there others here who feel that having 1 line is going to win us the Cup? Or are there others that really believe that Datsyuk is going to break out and be that playoff force he wants to be paid like?

First off, which NHL player ever gives credit to himself? Crosby's the best offensive player in the league and he heeps praise on everyone but himself. So I guess that means he's not the best player on his team eh? Secondly, Pavels the teams favourite playoff whipping boy because he hasn't scored a playoff goal in 26 straight games. There's no science behind it. Chevaldae used to be the fans playoff whipping boy years back. Why was that? It certainly wasn't because he was irreplaceable. It's because he sucked in the playoffs. Simple as that. Stop reading into things. It's obvious Datsyuk's your favourite player and like many others you're willing to make up one excuse after another for his playoff failings. Again, there is no science to it. There's no conspiracy or bad luck involved. The guy simply doesn't have the 'stuff' for postseason hockey and he never will.

Bring him a ziplock bag full of flour and Probie will sign anything you throw at him.

Yes I can. It's a free board. And tell me where I'm wrong? Z's not even close to being my favourite wing but I have the brains to see the makeup of this team. Tell me how this team would do if you took Z out of the equation.

Big surprise. Datsyuk's dad is back to defend his son again. You're right though, Datsyuk did have a great SH goal to break it open. But you're fooling yourself if you think Datsyuk is an effective player if they take Zetterberg away from him. And that was my whole point. Neutralise Zetterberg (which is exactly what every team will do) and Detroit's offense drys up. Not one other person on this team can score goals like Zetterberg or produce offense on their own like him. I know that he started off poorly like everyone else when he didn't have Dats on his line, but even then his goal totals were almost the same as last year. Only his assists were off. Datsyuk on the other hand was on pace for 12 goals and 50 points. He's proven time and time again that he is an ineffective offensive weapen when he has nobody to pass to. And that's because he's a one dimensional offensive threat. Again, for the wings to be effective in the playoffs they need a scoring winger for Lang. Because teams will shadow Zetts, which means they take away two players when they do so, so we'll need Lang and his winger to provide the offense when this happens. I'm also one of the few that seems to like Schneider. I think his defense is underated and he makes great 1st passes out of the zone. And Chelios is no longer really a physical dman. At his age he can't be like he was when with Montreal and Chicago. But he's still very sound in his own end. I just hope they don't do that weak dman paired with a strong dman crap. It's the reason we lost last year. All the teams knew that if you forechecked the good dman he would be forced to pass to the weak dman (eg. Lidstrom to Leijla). Leijla coughed up the puck time and time again. I hope he doesn't see any ice time in the playoffs. Same with JW.

Me neither. Lidstrom has a great powershot from the point and is a master at keeping the puck low for tips and rebounds. I like the idea of a good stay at home dman. I wonder if those rumours about Hatcher are true? And Aaron Miller would be incredible. Not only is he tough as nails in his own end he's also a right handed dman. A combo the Wings haven't had since Vladdy.

Defense is not our problem. It wasn't our problem in 03, 04 and 06. It's our offense that sucks. Why? Because Datsyuk can't score in the playoffs. Even now, if you contain Zetterberg, you contain the Wings. Last nights game was a perfect example. It was a boring game that either team could have won until the 3rd period. Zetts heated it up and won that game for Detroit. What do you think's going to happen in the playoffs? Teams will know that they only have to worry about Z. They know that if they check him closely not one other person on that team will bury them. Everyone's fully aware that Dats won't go into the danger zones and even if he did he's certainly not going to shoot. So take away his main target. The 2nd line is a joke. Cleary's come back to earth, Williams is playing like a 2nd line AHL winger and their 3rd line is made up of hard working checkers with 0 hands. The makeup of this team is that we'll lose in the 1st round within 5 to 6 games. In the games we win it'll be because our 3rd and 4th lines got some good bounces and scored some winning goals on route to a 3-2 or 2-1 victory. Our losses will be one goal games where we probably won't score over 2 goals in any of them. Unless Holland gives Lang a real scoring winger to play with this team has as good a shot of winning the Cup as Philly. And I know that's funny to say considering we're in the running for the President's Trophy again. But if you're a Wings fan, and certainly if you're an NHL fan you know that the regular season means absolutely diddly. How many times did we see the Wings dominate from October to April in the late 80's and early 90's? And how many Cups did we win? 0. This team needs more scoring and more grit. We've actually needed it the past 2 trade deadlines and here we are again asking for it a 3rd deadline in a row. When is Holland going to finally wake up and address what everyone knows this team needs? Does he really think that Sammy and Williams are going to turn into 25 goal scorers when the playoffs open up? What makes him think that Datsyuk will finally sack up and play like he thinks he's worth? This team needs at least 2 good gritty wingers with scoring touch to compete. If Guerin costs us a 1st and Meech (or another dman prospect) then do it. And then try to swing a deal for a 2nd tier winger with some decent hands. People laugh but Marty Lapointe fills this need. He sucks in the regular season but this guy scored a number of goals in the spring. He could do it again. Heck, even getting a Geoff Sanderson might be the kind of guy we need on the 2nd or 3rd line. Dats-Zetts-Homer Cleary-Lang-Guerin Sanderson-Drapes-Maltby Franzen-Flip-Sammy

Zubrus isn't a bad player as long as he has the right linemates. When he was with Leclair and Lindros he flourished. I still think he's a much better winger than centre and if he was put with Crosby and Recchi/Malone he would probably do really well. But he's not talented enough to carry a line on his own and I don't think his style fits Ovechkin's that much. A.O. needs a centre more like Marc Savard - a great passer that gets rid of the puck as soon as he gets it.

I just checked and while I didn't check all the way to today's date Malkin had at least 3 ES assists on Crosby goals since October 28th - Nov 20th, Dec 11th and Jan 2nd. And while it does seem that the two stopped playing a lot together by mid December there's no denying that the two played a lot of ES time with one another. Which gets us back to the original subject of Ovechkin. Even if Crosby only played 20 games with Malkin as his LW, that's still 20 more games with a quality winger compared to what A.O. has played with. I'm not dissing on Crosby's talent at all as I think this kid is already the best offensive player in the NHL right now and, pending injury's, could go down as one of the best 5 players all the time. But A.O. would undoubtebly have way more points than he does now if he's on any other team in the league. Even on Philly he'd have Forsberg to play with for a good part of the season. Zubrus and Clark are 3rd line forwards.

That's funny. Because the majority of games I watch they're together. And you seriously should check your facts about Malkin assisting on only 2 ES Crosby goals. Besides the October 24th and 28th games I randomly picked another game, November 20th agains the Flyers. Malkin assisted on another Crosby ES goal. I guess your sources are bunk. Edit: Regarding this article: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_493425.html It was a bad choice to make as this writer doesn't know a lot about hockey. The fact still remains, and boxscores prove it, that Malkin and Crosby have played the majority of the season on the same line. I know because I've watched the majority of their games.

Can you provide a link to this info? Check out the boxscores for Pittsburghs games on October 24th and 28th. In those games Malkin assisted on 2 ES Crosby goals. Are you telling me that he hasn't assisted on one other ES Crosby goal since before Halloween? How much money would you like to bet? And can I also ask who was his LW while Malone was out with a broken arm (out for 18 games)?

I'm assuming you mean Even Strength goals. Considering that Crosby has 18 ES goals that means Malkin has assisted on 33% of his ES goals. Not bad for a rookie. Here's two more articles where they discuss how the two have been put together mostly this season: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06297/732432-61.stm http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_493425.html TSN also had a peice a couple nights ago about which line in the NHL has been the hottest. The line of Malkin/Crosby/Recchi was 2nd to only Dats/Zetts/Homer. Sure, Malkin has taken some time as centre of the 2nd or 3rd line but Malkin has played the majority of this season on Crosby's LW.

That's odd. I have the Centre Ice Package and have watched over 30 of their games. Up until the middle of January I saw Malkin as Crosby's LW. Only in the last few weeks has Malkin switched back to centre, centering a line with Staal on the LW and Armstrong on the RW. EDIT: I just did a google search and it was noted on October 24th when the Pens put Malkin on his wing. The boxscore was: 1ST PERIOD NJD PIT 7:40 Scott Gomez Assists: Brian Gionta, Brad Lukowich 1 0 13:37 Nils Ekman Assists: Mark Eaton 1 1 2ND PERIOD NJD PIT 1:26 Sidney Crosby Assists: Evgeni Malkin, Ryan Whitney 1 2 4:53 Jordan Staal Assists: Nils Ekman, Mark Recchi 1 3 3RD PERIOD NJD PIT 8:02 Sergei Brylin Assists: Jim Fahey, Patrik Elias 2 3 10:41 Evgeni Malkin Assists: Sidney Crosby, Ryan Whitney 2 4 http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=261024016 This is only one game I know, but if you check www.tsn.ca and look for the Pens schedule and results you will see that Crosby and Malkin hooked up for several EVEN STRENGTH goals until about late January. In fact, TSN even has Malkin listed as a C/LW because of where he's played the majority of the year. TSN's usually spot on with where a player is currently playing.

Sorry bellarina but a goon is not going to turn this team from a 1 line threat into a 2 or 3 line threat. And trust me when I say it's not been the absence of a goon that's prevented Datsyuk from being a playoff performer. You would need a shrink to figure out why he can't perform when it matters most. But anyway, this teams #1, #2 and #3 need/concern is finding a winger with scoring, speed and grit. Sure, every team might need this but Detroit seems to lack it worse than anyone. Especially when you see poor Robert Lang trying to produce with 2 4th line players on this line. And even Jason Williams could be described as a very good AHL player. I don't care who you are, even Crosby couldn't put up 80 points playing with JW and Cleary.

Actually, Malkin was playing on Crosby's LW all season long until about 2 weeks ago. But you're right in the regard that the reason they don't put A.O. and Semin on the same line is because they both like to carry the puck, dangle and shoot. Having two shooters on one line isn't always the best idea. Crosby and Malkin work well together because they both think pass before shoot but at the same time both like carrying the puck the majority of the time.

If you believe Hockeybuzz then you should believe this: My dog just farted twice and then licked his sack. This means that Guerin will be traded to the Kings for a 7th rounder and the rights to nude photos of Bruce McNall. Seriously, when has anything that's come out of Eklunds mouth been true? The only time he reports a deal that comes true is AFTER the deal's been made or TSN breaks the news.

He will most certainly make a deal or two before the deadline. He's only posturing just like the sellers are posturing with their outrageous demands. Do you really think that Florida ownership will be happy to see Roberts and Bertuzzi leave for absolutely nothing? Or if St.Louis gets jack for Guerin or Tkachuk? Trust me, it's "stare-down" time right now. There are only a handful of sellers and an abundance of buyers. The Sellers are hoping that one of the buyers blinks first. But I doubt it will happen. In the end guys like Roberts and Guerin will go for a reasonable price.

I'd try to deal him for a guy like Zednik. Zednik is a UFA after this year and if Washington can't resign him maybe the Caps would want to get something for nothing if they're going to lose him anyway. Of couse, George McPhee probably doesn't want Williams either.

Have you seen the roster he's playing with? I'm still amazed this guy got 50 goals last year and is doing as well as he is this year. He has 72 points right now and the next closest has 56. His centre is Danius-freakin-Zubrus and his RW is Chris Clark for crying out loud. Sure, Semin is good but they only play together on the PP. If this guy had just ONE real 1st line player to play with he'd be 2nd in league scoring. Wait until Backstrum comes in next year. He'll be back to scoring 100 points a season.

For the amount of money he's making he is. Think about what skills he has - he can skate well. That's it. His defensive play is average, his shot isn't going to scare anyone, his passing is alright but he doesn't have great vision to really capitalise. He's not big, can't hit and loses a lot more puck battles than he wins. Now look at his stats: 56GP, 11G, 15A, 26 PTS. He avergaes almost 15 minutes per game, 3 of which are on the PP. He's been placed on the 4th line of late but the first half of this season he was skating with Robert Lang and Dan Cleary. Hudler on the other hand gets 9 minutes of Ice time a game, just over 1 minute of PP time and he's played almost exclusivly on the 4th line and yet he has 2 goals less than Williams. If Williams were making the league minimum I'd have a lot less problems with his play. But considering he's making 7 digits in a capped NHL, clearly you have to see how useless this guy is. Putting him in the same category as Kopecky, Ellis or Hussey is really not that far off when you consider the skill-to-pay ratio. Point blank, I'd love to see the Wings waive him or deal him for anything. And I mean anything. EXCELLENT POST! And I think Holland would be lying if he told you that he didn't think Williams would increase on what he did last year. It's the reason he didn't bother going after players like Guerin or Sykora and gave JW a huge raise. But the fact that Williams got 20 points in his last 50+ games last year should have told you that his early success had more to do with Detroit's PP, the new rules and the year off most NHLers took (while players like JW were in Europe keeping in shape). As soon as the rest of the league got back in real game shape and adjusted to the new rules JW eroded back to the good AHL player he is.

That's what bothers me the most. Hudler has 8 goals while playing on the 4th line with 8 minutes a game and yet Williams continues to get 2nd line status and PP time. He hasn't earned it in the least. And while Williams is a depth player he's being paid like a top 9 forward. I'm positive Bootland could be doing more for this team than Williams. Both will score the same amount but Bootland will hit, fight and battle. But from what I hear Williams is a better dancer. I guess that gets you 2nd line minutes with the Wings. I agree with Khan's blog when he says Flip and Huds should get more time. Give Lang and Cleary 3rd line status for a while and see what these kids can do. It's not like it'll hurt us if they don't score. Nobody but Zetts is scoring these days. Philly made off like bandits in this deal but I don't blame Nashville giving up Parent. They have a wealth of young talent on the blueline and in their system. This is probably the closest Nashville could come to winning the cup. Sometimes you have to pay a big price for the big prize.

Hahahaha! Would you? I think more people would rather have herpes than Williams. Afterall, you can take medication to prevent symtoms of herpes. The only thing you can do is bench Williams. But he still hurts your cap.

Make no mistake, this is a horribly veiled attempt at giving Leaf fans something to cheer about. Afterall, since 67 what have they done? Nothing. Sure, Leaf fans will go on and on about how they upset us in 93 and how if it wasn't for Gretzky's high stick they would have won the Cup, blah, blah, blah. The point is, the Leafs organization is pathetic. For years Leaf fans would scream how we were the Yankees of hockey and we 'bought' all of our Cups. And when the Cap came in Leaf fans laughed again saying how horrible the Wings would be now that our wallet was shut tight. But that didn't happen did it? In fact, it was exposed that the Leafs were really the team that tried to buy a Cup. When the Wings won Cups in 97, 98 and 2002 our core group was all drafted and developed inhouse. Meanwhile, during that same time the Leafs posted only 2 or 3 players that were actually drafted and developed by them. The rest were all bought and paid for. So let the Laughs reminise about a time when Dinosaurs roamed the earth and Toronto actually had a championship team. If that's what makes the happy then go ahead. Afterall, we're talking about the same city and fans that wanted to throw a parade after winning a round 1 series. (NO JOKE). Shine on Laugh fans. Shine on.

You're right, the Wings played a much different style in the early 90's. But maybe he should have said that last 3 years. The 06-07 Wings play no differently than the 03, 04 and 06 Wings did. Which means a hard, aggressive, physical forecheck coupled with keeping the Wings to the paremeter will beat us again.

I can't give that a qualified answer since I can't see 'how' that team played once obtaining Bert and Laraque. If those two guys bring some muscle to the team and make opponents think twice for running Hasek, Zetts, Lidstrom and Dats, while chipping in goals on the way to the Cup, then yes they would be the final peices to the puzzle. But I'm still not convinced that Holland will get the necessary amount of grit and toughness this team needs. His response to this same need last season was met with an acquisition of Cory Cross.