Hank

FINALLY someone with some brains! GB is no more than a hired gun for the BOG. The NHL could have had a deal with ESPN but the BOG shot it down, deciding instead to take the much more lucrative (see $$$) deal VS offered them. So many people like to blame expansion on GB too but it's been well documented that the BOG from the early 80's wanted to expand into Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas and more into California. Please get your facts straight before you start pointing fingers. All the things the NHL has decided to do go through the owners first.

I heard Jim Nill say that they think Helm could be on the new generation grindline with Mathias and Aebeldenker(sp?).

Don't underestimate other teams desperation. Even though he's only played 7 games and possibly only 5 more after his long layoff, I guarentee you that a player like Jason Williams will not be what lands him. Name 1 good thing, besides skating, that Williams does well enough to get someone of Berts potential.

I think everyone in Hockeytown should get the notion out of their head that Jason Williams is worth anything over a 3rd round pick. He is complete garbage. If Florida wants a 1st and a prospect/good player for Bert, guarenteed that player won't be Williams. His signing, Sammy's and Leilja's were busts by Holland. It's not all his fault as all 3 seemed to have a career year last season. But none of those players are going to attract fly's. Start thinking players like Hudler or Kindl to secure a top winger.

A first rounder and a prospect are WAY too much to give up for Bertuzzi in my opinion. Sure, it'd be a great deal if it was Bert for 03 but it isn't. By the time he gets back on the ice he might play in a mere 5 games to determine if his back if fine or not. That's not good enough for me. I'd hate to give up a 1st and even Meech for Bert because for all we know his back will go out by March 1st and then we're screwed. If we're giving up that much then I'd be far more comfortable going after guys like Doan, Nagy or Guerin.

Zetterberg scored 6 goals in the playoffs last year compared to Datsyuk's 3 assists in 5 games. Scoring goals in the playoffs is A LOT harder than getting a 2nd assist here or there on the PP. And most takeaways occur in the neutral zone or around the blueline. It's not like Dats goes into the corners to steal pucks from guys. That one play stood out to me but there have been several others in the past 4 years that show me this guy has no balls for playoff hockey. And you all but said it yourself that Datsyuk has yet to figure out how to perform when the intensity and physicality of playoff hockey comes around. Does that sound like a playoff performer to you? But I can see I'm not going to be convincing you of anything. You are obviously looking through your Datsyuk coloured glasses and are convinced he's been our best playoff performer over the past 3 playoffs. It's just that he's unlucky that he hasn't scored in 26 straight playoff games. /sarcasm Another point I wanted to bring up is that if you want to keep Datsyuk for next year it's going to cost a minimum of $7 million dollars, and here's why: Datsyuk has proven that he's a 50 point player with mediocre wingers. So if you want to pay him $5 million/year, you MUST get him a scoring winger to be effective. This would mean spending a minimum of $2 mill on a 30+ goal scorer. Off the top of my head, the only player who might sign for that, who has any touch around the net, is Billy Guerin. And even then, because of the good season he's having this year, he'll more than likely ask for $3 mil or so. So in effect, if you want to keep Dats, you might have to spend upwards of 8 or 9 million to get your money's worth. Zetterberg wasn't doing much better without decent wingers but his goal total didn't drop as much comopared to what he did last year, only his assists suffered. Datsyuk hates to score almost as much as he hates to be touched. So if he's going to be a playmaker you can't have him line up with guys like Williams and Sammy. If you do, you might as well let him walk and keep Filpulla as your #2 centre. He could probably get close to as many points as Datsyuk with crappy wingers for a heck of a lot less.

Well it's a good thing he's being paid so well for his defense. I guess we can count on Kopeky to do our scoring for us in the playoffs then? And we should certainly expect the other 11 forwards to do all the battling for loose pucks. We wouldn't want Mrs.Datsyuk to break a nail getting his nose dirty. Afterall, his job is winning faceoffs and nothing more.

I think the biggest reason I don't see that many fights in beer leagues anymore is because less and less guys are drinking before games. It used to be that you'd have at least 2 cases on the actual bench during the game. That's basically gone now. And now that you've taken the liquid courage away from these guys they don't fight anymore. I'm interested to know what level of hockey the leagues you play in are. I play in a competitive league where the average player is probably a lifetime Travel to Junior C talent. I've only seen a handful of fights in this league over the past few years. Most of the guys understand we all need to work in the morning and it's about fun, not reliving past glory or acting like it's the NHL we're playing in.

But Stevie and Kozie DID go into corners and TAKE checks to get the puck. That hit Kozzie took against Stevens would have retired Datsyuk. And why shouldn't Zetts and Dats block shots or dig in corners for loose ones? All the other top playes in the league have done it? Is Dats too good for it? And sibiriak, I already spoke about Datsyuk's shot blocking ability. He might be 2nd on the team but he's 117th in the league. And most of the guys in front of him have had a LOT more ice time and games than him. Also, I couldn't give two craps and a piss about all his regular season stats. What's his stats in the playoffs? How many games has he now gone without a goal? 26! That might be acceptable for someone that's getting 4 minutes game but not for someone that wants $5 mill plus or caused such a stink last year trying to secure a deal. Maybe you're seeing some special feed from FSN that shows what a playoff determined player he is. But like I pointed out, that play where he tucked his tampon in and ran from a loose puck told me all I needed to know about Pavel Datsyuk. Keep believing in him and I'll see you right back here after we're eliminated in the 1st round after Dats goes 6 games with 2 assists and 0 goals. EDIT: Wow, he won in faceoffs a lot. Big deal. I'd rather see him lose a faceoff and then go into the corner to battle for the loose puck.

Jason Allison was the perfect, prototypical forward in the OLD NHL where clutching and grabbing reigned supreme. Because he was so big and strong he could fight through the forest of arms and sticks while others were slowed up to his speed. Last season, because everything was so wide open, Jason Allison floundered due to his top speed being slightly better than a tree. I believe over 60% of his points last year were on the PP. During 5-on-5 it was almost embarassing watching him struggle out there. If he did indeed sign with the Thrashers he would be better suited to play like a centre in the old table hockey game. Simply stay up as far as you can. The fact that this tool is still sitting out for a reported $2-3 million contract tells you how delusional he is about his worth. It also speaks volumes when teams like Calgary, Vancouver, the Rangers and Atlanta (among others) have neglected to go after him despite desperatly needing a 2nd line centre. I'm sure that some of them did contact him, but anything over $1 million is overpaying for this breathing pile of molasses. If Ken Holland even thought about signing this bum I would personally hunt him down and dropkick his colon into oblivion.

But I said that points weren't the only indicator. Shanny didn' t produce in the past few years but in their cup wins and in between the guy would work his arse off doing anything he could. He would hit, fight, block shots, etc. Datsyuk doesn't do those things. It's the lack of fire that makes me want to jetison him from this team.

I actually think you're proving my point. If this guy has no clue how to adjust to tighter defenses, higher intensity/aggression and looser officiating (which wasn't the case at all last spring) then how or when is he going to? There have been bushel full of players both great and average that have figured that out. There have been numerous players with half his skill, health and size that have succeeded where Datsyuk has not. Again, all of what you pointed out yourself leads to the head or the heart. Or both. If he hasn't figured out playoff hockey yet he's never going to. I have yet to see him dig down and get up to that one extra gear needed for playoff success. Draper's done it, Matlby's done it, Lapointe did it all the time. And more importantly the Wings superstars like Yzerman, Federov, Larionov, Shanahan all found that extra gear too. I don't believe Datsyuk has it or has the mental toughness to find his. And his track record has shown that we should all be very prepared for another donut from Dats come April.

All of that flys out the window come playoff time. Look at their home record last year (27-9-5). And how did they do? They went 1-2 in the postseason. In 2003-2004 (30-7-4), they started great going 3-0 against a #8 seed Nashville (which wasn't anything close to what they are now), but again went 1-2 against Calgary who had a .560 winning percentage on the road. Home and away records me didly. And I actually like the idea of the Sharks 1st round. They'd be tough but if we got passed them, we'd be rolling into round 2. There are no more easy matchups. Last year there were maybe 1 or 2 first round matchups that were gimmes. The rest were all hard fought series'.

Toronto anyone? I actually think he might do well in Pittsburgh. Lining up beside Crosby or Malkin would certainly help jump start his offensive game.

I should also note that this show more than likely has you sign papers saying that you can't fight, much like Survivor or any other reality show has. If you did, you'd get sued up the ying-yang. So end of story. So you've had 1 or 2 fights on the ice? And against who? Johnny Sixpack in your beer league? I'm sure that will help you against Claude Lemieux. And for crying out loud people, he turtled ONCE and it was basically because he was jumped by McCarty. Look for some Lemieux fights on Youtube. The guy was no wimip. Heck, just look at his rematch with McCarty. He scored a draw with him. Some even think he won the fight. So I guess that means you could beat McCarty in a hockey fight too then, eh? I love internet tough guys. One great thing about them is that they can't prove 1% of the crap they espouse on these boards.

I agree. And look at Bob Probert. I guarentee you I could skate faster than him, and I can outbench him as well. But I would have been killed by him. And boxing doesn't mean crap on the ice. I play with a guy that has done every martial arts, or hand-to-hand contact sport in the business. From MMA, kickboxing, boxing, judo, tough man competitions, you name it. And yet, I've seen him lose a good amount of scraps on the ice. He's 6'2", 220 lbs and can probably bench 450. And look at Troy Crowder. The dude was a serious competivie boxer and although he got the best of Probie in their first bout, Probert got revenge. Crowder also got pummled by quite a few other goons in the league (Tony Twist comes to mind - yow!). And I'm pretty sure Crowder could outskate, out bench and outbox almost every goon in the league. Technique is huge in hockey fights. It's nothing like street fighting or boxing. Lots of hockey goons are terrible fighters off the ice. Unless you've been in 20 or more actual hockey fights, I'd say you'd get absolutely murdered by Claude Lemieux. All the bench pressing, running and boxing training goes out the window on the ice if you haven't actually fought on the ice before.

I agree that he can score goals down low in the reg. season, but that's a whole other ballgame in the playoffs. I still think his 0 goals in 26 straight playoff games is no fluke and illustrates my points better than I ever could.

The play I was referring to was where there was a loose puck in the corner with Dats about 6 feet or one stride away from it. He made a motion to go get it when he saw an Oiler dman coming hard from behind the net. The dman was still a good 3-4 strides away. Dats could easily have gotten to the puck first and made a play with it. But he ended up curling away from the loose puck and heading back up ice. My brother-in-law is a giant Oilers fan and he immediately called me afterwards laughing hysterically. He said "That's why Dats has 0 goals in 4 years! hahaha!" I was out of my mind angry with the lack of courage he showed in that one instance. And I kid you not when I say that both Kelly Hrudey and Ron MacLean addressed that play in the post-game show. And it was the next day that the rumours mounted regarding desention in the Wings lockeroom over lack of effort from certain 'superstars'. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the level of Datsyuks postseason play. You mentioned how the coaching staff needs to find a gameplay that works to his strenghts. But that's where my argument kicks in. Datsyuk's only strenght is his passing. If you cut off his passing lanes, he's useless as he won't go deep into traffic to make things happen. The OIlers took him completely out of games by keeping him to the outside trying to thread passes through 3-4 guys. Time will tell. Trust me, nobody will be happier than me if he scores a playoff goal. The team will need him greatly this spring. But from what I've witnessed over the past 3 playoffs is a man unwilling to find that extra gear needed for success.

I sure hoep we don't win the division and I hope we finish in the bottom 4 of the conference. Home ice means absolutely squat and I think the Wings will be better off starting on the road, and away from fans that get down on the team if they don't convert every PP advantage. The #1 seed has proven to be a curse to this team. I would love to see an 8th seed team, that's been fighting and clawing to make the playoffs for two months, upend the Preds or Ducks in round 1.

Drury would be awesome to get on this team. The man is a proven winner and does everything necessary to win. Sure, he probably won't give you 90+ points in the regular season but the regular season hasn't meant crap to the Wings since 89. This guy can flat out play in the postseason.

That's the problem right there. He treats the playoffs the same as the regular season. Do you think guys like Ryan Smyth or Jerome Iginla do that? No! They take it up a notch. And nobody's asking him to fight. Where did I say that? All I pointed out was that other teams top stars would do things to win that they normally would not do. And have you actually watched a playoff game with your eyes unclouded for your huge man-crush of Pavel Datsyuk? How do you explain that play I wrote about before? The play where he turned tail and ran out of the zone as fast as he could when a potential puck battle was immenent. It was so bad that even Kelly Hrudey brought it up with Ron MacLean during the post game show and both agreed that it was a gutless act. Hrudey even wondered how Datsyuk's teammates would view that act of cowardice. In fact, it wasn't long after that there were rumours flying around how there was dissention in the wings lockerroom over the lack of effort given by certain 'superstars' on the team. And Datsyuk was a little injured? Boo-freakin-hoo. When the Avs won the Cup in 01 Sakic's shoulder was so bad that doctors said he shouldn't even watch TV without it being in a sling. And yet the man was giving OUT bodychecks let alone taking them. Yzerman had 0 cartildge in his knee but was able to singlehandedly carry the Wings through the Vancouver series in 02. There have been countless winners in NHL history that ignored injuries and pain and were still able to perform at a very high level. Datsyuk has shown none of these traits. What he has shown is that he's willing to play at the same level as he does in December, but no more, for the sake of winning in the postseason. And his play in the regular season still consists of paremeter play where chances of him getting touched are far less. All I'm saying is nobody here should be surprised one bit if and when Datsyuk underperforms again in this years playoffs. And again, I'm not looking at points, I'm looking at heart and determination. Two things I've never seen from the 'man'. EDIT: He has 23 blocked shots. Big deal. He's tied for 117th in the league in that regard. Anze Kopitar has more Blocked shots than him.

HAHAHAHA! Have you actually watched him in the playoffs? His attitude is "I won't hit you if you don't hit me. I don't want to get injured so it hurts my contract talks". He's a complete wussy when it comes to physical contact or confrontation. He would rather run from a loose puck than battle for it. He doesn't have anything close to a 'next-level' that most players go into for the playoffs. Look at the last 3 teams to win the cup. All their top players were willing to pay a price for victory. Heck, Vinny Lecavailer fought Jerome Iginla in the '04 finals! When we won Cups our top offensive players were also guys that blocked shots, made hits, took hits and went into high traffic areas to win battles. When's the last time you saw Datsyuk do ANY of that???? Never! Watching players like Brind'Amour, Staal and even Matt Cullen pay the price to win brought a tear to my eye, because I know two of our top offensive players - Datsyuk and Lang - would never do that. Datsyuk is complete garbage in the playoffs. Why pay this bum anything over a nickel when he can't produce when you need it most? I don't need a crystal ball. I have actual facts and proof to back up my opinions. The guy has a .35 PPG average in the postseason. In the past 3 playoffs he's played on the top line given top ice time and linemates. And it's not all about points either. Look at the way he plays. Heartless, gritless, spineless. He reminds me so much of Jimmy Carson it's not even funny. Carson was a guy that really shone during the late 80's due to how the game was played. But then the mid 90's showed up and the game changed to a more physical nature. He disappeared off the face of the earth before he was 27. And this was a guy that was scoring 100+ points as a teenager. Datysuk's the same way. He so scared to go anywhere near traffic that you can actually see him fold into himself. If we lose in the first round and Dats gets 0 points, but he blocks shots, goes into the corners and battles for the puck I'll come on here and praise him. But we all know he's never going to do that because he's never come close to doing any of that since he came in the league. P.S. I guess you have a different crystal ball that shows you a different Datsyuk that we've all seen.

Then the Wings deserve all the playoff misfortune they've endured in the past and for the future disappointments they will surely see. I hope that Holland finally wakes up and sees Datsyuk for what he really is - Playoff Cancer. And please don't compare Zetts to Dats; it's not even close. It's like comparing Mark Messier to Jimmy Carson.

This would be a perfect fit. Philly isn't heading to the playoffs anytime soon and since Dats does his best Casper impression when April roles around, his regular season glory would be welcomed. I have a funny feeling he might end up in Washington though. A.O. needs a playmaking centre and Washington is well under the cap. They could overspend to get Dats. There were strong rumours that Dats and his agent turned down a 5 year deal at $5 mill per year in the summer. And more "rumblings" from the hockey world have suggested that Datsyuk wants between $6-7 million. I'd agree that just based on regular season stats, Datsyuk isn't close to a $7 million/year player. Heck, he's not close to $5 million. But his agent is widely known as being borderline insane. The fact that Datsyuk still employs him tells you all you need to know. The fact is, Datsyuk has had only ONE season where he's averaged more than a point-per-game. And this year, he proved that he can't do squat without an elite player on his line. There aren't a lot of players like that in the league, but none of them are making $7 million a year either. Martin Havlat deserves $6+. He can make things happen with ECHL linemates. Dats cannot. I'm still praying that Datsyuk keeps believing he's a $7 mill guy so he walks out of town. He's exactly why this team hasn't done squat in 3 years in the playoffs. We keep pinning our playoff hopes on his shoulders and all he does is vanish when the going gets tough.

Hockeytown Red Wings, sorry, I just picked a random resonse and must have hit 'quote' instead of reply. Not directing that comment to you at all. Bringback91, I don't disagree with at all about your assessment about Lemieux. He's an idiot and should be despised. I was only commenting on how many people here said they would have fought him on the show when that's all talk and regardless of whether the guy turtled from time to time, he could still hold his own. The same people that say "I would have fought Lemieux" would probably not say the same thing about McCarty. But in their rematch Lemieux more than held his own against Dmac. If those same people think they're tougher than Dmac then obviously they know something I don't. But most casual hockey players wouldn't last 10 seconds with a guy of his fistic experience. What kind of makes me laugh about your assesment of Lemieux (which is bang-on) is that the same thing could be applied to Chris Chelios. Chelios is known around the league for doing a lot of dirty stuff. He slashes, butts, cheapshots but he never fights anyone he knows he's going to lose to. Doesn't anyone here remember how he'd target Yzerman all the time while he played with Chicago? Stevie even dropped the gloves with him. But there have been numerous times in Cheli's career where a tough opponent challenged Cheli only to see him turn and run. He did it with Probie, Wendel Clark and more recenlty Todd Bertuzzi. Just food for thought.