Wingseroo

Back to the future LOL... Yeah Kronwall and Big Rig have futures, Kronwall a more physical harder shooting but otherwise less skilled top blueliner then Lids... I doubt Kronwall is ever a superstar, but I think he can be a solid 1st liner... Ericsson I have a feeling he will be a better shutdown guy long term... Stuart and Rafalski are signed through 2012... Barring a trade they are in the top 4 for a few more years... This is probably the top 4 in the future for a long while... Kindl and Kolosov probably get a shot to show what they have in call ups this year and next year... Lebda and Meech make sense to hold onto for this season for salary reasons, I expect both to be gone the next year... Lids comes back for another season after this one I can see Kindl & Kolosov battling for 6th and 7th slots... I actually think if Lids retires the Wings might pick up 2 FA's to fill in and then keep the one they like more of Kolosov and Kindl as #7... Why I think they will feel more comfortable with Lids in house using rookies at the back end of the d-man roster, without him they would rather pick up some cheap experience... Rafalski will probably become a Larry Murphy type over the next few years that drops in the pairings but is still kept on the PP units... I like Stuart, but I just do not think he is a 22 to 30 min a night guy so never gets slotted higher then the 2nd pairing (been wrong before)... Who knows 3 years from now Kronwall & Ericsson might be top pairing with Rafalski 2nd pairing with a young guy and Stuart 3rd pairing with a young guy... In fact I could see that being reality by 11'-12' season...

Exactly!

Were you around in 96-97 season? Vlady was the guy the Wings put on ice in all shutdown situations... I remember Slava Fetisov mentioning he was better then him in his hey day (Fetisov is still considered by many to be the finest amateur D-man in history while playing for CCCP team #1)... Different styles both HOF caliber (Vlady & Lids) and arguably pre accident Vlady was better... Would he have had the complete career that Lids has had? Who knows, but after 96-97 season there was a lot of muttering that he deserved the Norris Trophy and only got snubbed because of scoring prowess...

I believe there is a rumor forum... Though I do not think this even qualifies as a rumor...

Whoa Nelly!!! Vlady was outstanding HOF type defenseman... He was probably stronger defensively then Lidstrom before his crash... Roughly similar ages... Gritty and nasty... He never would have put up the points Lids has but was every bit as much of an all timer as a defenseman... When he had the accident he would have demanded as much and possibly more in trade then Lids... Guy was a 1 man wrecking crew that drew so many frustration penalties from other players... Vlady was a heart and soul guy...

Are'nt Kindl and Kolosov out of options next year? By that I mean they are with the Wings, dealt, or lost?

First off if you buy a contract out you can't resign the player you bought out... Trade Meech has no cap benefit, $483,000 cap hit is about as low as a cap hit could be, so if he is traded you actually have to free up some room for a replacement #7 blueliner... Lebda makes about 1/2 what Lilja makes as comparable players... If you need cap room once again Lebda at 650k doesn't really free any up... So that leaves Homer at 2.25 vs Hudler at what he signs for... I think the point being made is that 1 of these 2 might have to be moved... Flip, Mule are almost as untouchable Zetts and Datsyuk... Honestly looks like Holland wants to keep Hudler and someone else has to go... I am not saying it is Homer, he just makes the most sens cap wise...

Repeat to prove things and I think the Konstantinov tragedy fueled them...

I feel the same way... Also I am not sure Lids will come back... He has always talked retirement... I would not be shocked if he leaves hockey before hockey leaves him... Then that is a void that everyone has known would be impossible to fill when it happens...

Exactly... And he is 36 and seems to be running out of steam... I hated Homer from 97'-01' because he was the only player on those Wings squads that always was a minus performer, next closest guy would be +2 Homer would be -9... Then Homer came into his own from 02'-08', reduced his defensive lapses and started contributing a little more then his goalie screens... Now I think his skills are starting to erode and he is inching back to being the same kind of detriment he was early in his career... Still 4 rings with Homer, I grew to like him... Now Detroit has a bigger, faster, more skilled, and better defensive minded Homer in Franzen... People wanting him full time on the 4th and folks wanting him full time on the 1st line are not being realistic... Homer is not going to play 18 min a night and has never been that kind of a guy... I expect he will be the breather forward for the top 3 lines, get a few minutes for each line each night and some PP time... Get 10-12 min a night... That is how they played him before the lockout and it seems to be how they used him this past year...

On the Zetts issue, remember when he was drafted the Wings were the only organization scouting Sweden 365 days a year... In the current NHL scouting model he would have been drafted much higher... Outside of the occasional world class talent you go back even 10 years ago and scouting was almost entirely North America, Russia, and the former Czechoslovakia... Teams used to send through a 1 or 2 month European scout team each year to touch the other countries... Funny thing about how Detroit landed Yzerman way back? Not really he was a 5'10 160lb world class player, got passed over by a couple teams and Wings jumped on him... How is that funny? Remember Michael Jordan was not selected #1 in his draft... Donovan McNabb was 3rd QB selected in his draft... Moreno was 5th QB selected in his... Everyone always has questions, and the question about Yzerman was size...

That is the part people seem to not realize... Lebda, Meech, Howard, and Maltby if you were to move them or get rid of them cant really be replaced with any significant savings... 700k for a back up goalie is about as cheap as it gets... Meech makes under 500k cap hit!!! Lebda and maltby are both under 900K... All of these guys you move purely to replace not to gain cap room... You want to clear cap room you need to start talking Lilja or Homer or bigger fish like Stuart... Some people like Lilja more then Lebda for instance (I actually prefer Lebda), but Lebda is more athletic and 6 years younger and hundreds of K's cheaper... Draper I think could be moved but his leadership defense/PK and faceoff skills make 1.5 mil a bargain... And I doubt Detroit wants to anchor both 3rd and 4th lines with rookie centers... Is the difference between Lilja and Lebda worth the money difference? salary aside I always go with the younger faster skater in that scenario, especially for a 3rd pairing defensemen...

Another thing to consider is how the system works with Detroit... Guys like Kindl, Abdelkader, and Howard would have been rushed through the pipeline much faster... I think of Landon Ferraro this years first pick and he is a guy that I think in most organizations would be looking at a call up in 2 years where here with Detroit he might be given 4 or 5 years to develop... There are a lot of guys in the Detroit system (or in other organizations that were Detroit picks) right now that will surpass 200 games, but are in the midst of the slow developmental process of the Wings... what was it 7 Swedes picked in the 1st roound this year? even 5 years ago most of them would have been Detroit's 2nd-5th round picks, Detroit is the cause of the current shift towards Swedish players in the draft... P.S. How many Russian players has Detroit selected in the last 10 years that play professionally in Russia?

They should be around 3 mil without Abie counted and with Leino signed... An older player is going to have to be moved simply... 33 yr old Lilja 36 yr old Homer are the salaries I see, problem is finding a team that wants one of those players... Maltby is no help, he makes same money as Abdelkader... Draper at 1.5 mil per is worth more then Lilja at same money and Homer at 2.25 Mil, (3rd/4th line center/PK/face offs)... People may say Maltby is the easiest to lose, but nothing is gained by losing him cap wise... Nothing is really gained by losing Lebda cap wise, and Lebda is much younger then Lilja... Its basically Hudler vs some combo of Lilja/Homer, they are the only players that balance cap wise... Lilja or Lebda has to be gone anyway (or Stuart or Rafalski which is more of a gut the team move if they move 1 of them)... So really we are talking Lilja/Homer vs Hudler... NFL this would be a no brainer cut the older guys resign Hudler and fill a couple spots with cheaper younger guys, but the NHL system is a little more complex... There is likely a market for Lilja at his pay level, but I cant see anyone willing to take the Homer salary on...

Wings have been grooming Hudler for this for 5 years... Keep a PP specialist like Homer for 2.25 mil to let a young guy like Hudler go is so stupid... Yes look at the roster and the most glaring number is Homer at 2.25 mil...

They do not have the 1.617 Mil counted in for Big Rig and Howard... P.S. Leino should take cap down to around 3 mil after that...

Everyone keeps missing the point on Hudler... Your talking about a home grown guy that is 25 and has the potential to be 70 pt scorer... There is no one to bring in to fill the void left by losing all 3 of Sammy/Huds/Hossa... The Wings have carefully groomed Hudler up to this point to be a quality top 2 line scorer, and that time has come... The real elephant in the room no one seems to want to talk about is Homer... Homer is the kind of 1 dimensional over the hill type player that is eating cap space that is creating the problem... We can throw a young Huds under the bus, but loyalty keeps everyone from mentioning that Homer is the guy on the roster that seems to be out of place...

Yeah as a few people have mentioned Datsyuk and Flip are going to be top 2 line centers... Zetts is a great center but he is also a great LW, the other 2 are pure centers (not to mention if on same line Datsyuk is superior faceoff man)... You cant put Homer on the top line really anymore and if you put him on a Helm led energy line you reduce the energy and purpose of that line... Homer has always been a defensive liability and a slow skater... more likely thing for Homer is that he gets spot played in line rotation and used on the PP...

I am actually all about a Leino-Helm-Abdelkader line... The Griffins Line...

Sounds like Leino is a lock... Safe to set him in line combos...

Look if they keep Hudler no room really for guys that are not in house... If they do not then how about trying for a Manny Malhotra? Wings will not be able to replace the scoring loss within their budget for a top 2 line scorer if its not Hudler, so I guess at that point yeah sign a grit guy... Why not a young guy with size and some scoring touch vs the over the hill crowd often being discussed?

If Lidstrom retires next year I doubt the Wings will sign a big name D man... Kronwall (raise?) Rafalski Big Rig and Stuart are top 4 d-men and then the Wings have to bring up or trade Kindl and Kolosov are out of options... Wings will spend extra money available next offseason on front line and raises for current players...

Nick Lidstrom get extended when I did not hear about it? His contract is done after this season... Maybe Nick comes back, but maybe he retires... Thats a lot of jack in cap space if he retires... Also if he does come back do not be shocked if he takes a low contract (by low I mean 3 million or so for a season) to free up cap space for 1 more run... there are 3 things that could happen and 2 of them open up serious cap space...

Yes I see so many teams banging down Moan's door to pay him in excess of 2.5 mil... If Hudler was UFA vs being a RFA he would have a 3 to 4 mil offer from some team by now... The thing is he doesn't want to leave Detroit and teams I can understand would be standoffish to paying 3.013 Mil+ and losing a 1st and a 3rd... The real issue here is that the Wings do not have the cap room for him to be paid 3+ Mil, he will probably get that in arbitration, so its a bigger issue to see if the team can work something out with him before arbitration... And yes I am ready to see Huds get full top 2 line ice time... If he gets to arbitration and gets awarded more then the Wings can pay then yes they have to move him, or they will have to move a vet... Most importantly Hudler is 25 with a 57 pt season behind him and all expectations of improving off that... I doubt Hudler ever tops out over 35g's at any point in his career, but a a young forward with 70 pt potential is a completely different beast then a 4th line grinder... Honestly I would rather see Abie get playing time with the Wings then a Moan...

For the love of God give the Moan talk a rest... At least until there is even an inkling that he could be signed... And only a fool would want Moan a role playing 4th liner over a young 2nd line scorer like Hudler... Honestly these guys are not even in the same stratosphere as NHL players... Everyone is always talking grit, well Wings made it to the finals back to back with skill sqauds and lost this year to a skill squad... You do not mind if I prefer to trust Holland over you do you?