NeverForgetMac25

Could you explain to me how Ozzie failed on NY or STL? Also, how the Wings not winning the Cup every year since 98 isn't considered a "goalie failure" yet when Ozzie's in net, it is?

I know this wasn't directed at me but there's plenty of merit to this comment actually. Oz seems to flourish when he doesn't have that #1 tag on him. When he came in mid-first round last April he seemed fresh and mentally prepared. However, when he gets that tag, it sure seems like it does something to him even with how mentally strong he is. I know Oz is able to put bad goals in the past immediately, but his level of play is currently nowhere near it was last Spring. The defense may not be helping him, but he's not helping himself either. I do hope that Babs keeps a leash on him as the season goes on in order to keep his head where it needs to be come April. I think subtly letting the media know that Conklin could earn more starts as the season goes on could help Oz get that fire back that he had all last season when he was fighting for playing time.

This could be one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on this board. That's saying something. Don't you find it ironic that no matter which goalie has been plugged into the Wings' system all of a sudden has a lower SV% than they did on past teams? Do you not understand why?

Talk about taking something out of context. Never once did I say collecting jerseys of others teams makes you a bad fan. All I said is that *I* don't care/understand how fans of any team could by another teams' jersey. There are people out there that are fans of multiple teams, which I never really understood either unless they were originally a fan of one team and then their home market got an expansion team or something of the like. However, a collector is in a completely different ballgame so don't make it out like I'm attacking you because I personally would never buy another teams' apparel. Get off your soapbox...I'm not trying to oppress you.

I don't get how anyone that was a Wings fan in the 90's *could* ever wear an Avalanche jersey. While the rivalry isn't what it used to be, I still get a different feeling whenever the Wings play them. I have uber-respect for Joe Sakic, but not only would I never wear apparel for any other NHL team, the Avs would be the furthest one from what I'd wear. A good example of this is when Mac went to Calgary. I wished him well and wanted him to do good, but I'm not about to go out and buy his jersey. Same goes for Favre and the Jets. Keep in mind, this is given that I wear jersey's even though I don't. Bottom line, I wouldn't wear any other teams' apparel, especially the Avalanche.

It really wasn't a huge hometown discount at the time he signed that deal. The cap was only $39 million at that point and Z was fairly unproven. There was a fair chance he was going to turn into a great player, but elite was still up in the air. All in all, I think it was a fair deal at the time, with Kennly slightly winning, but not a huge discount. *Now* though, he deserves up near $8 million on this Wings team, but I'm hoping he'll settle around $7.4-$7.6. The term will depend heavily on what he makes. If its 7 years, I expect the deal to be worth $7.6-$7.8. If its 10 years, it'll be closer to $7.3.

Wow......you must be really anti-dry humor, because those were hilarious.

Not only do I completely agree, never once did I say they shouldn't try to improve. Leino and Helm are not an upgrade over Sammy at this point. That's the fact of the matter. Why? Because you say it will be? Sammy said he was told to shoot like crazy when he got here. Now that he's become more of a passer its not only helped the entire Wings team, its helped his game tremendously. Since he's gone this direction and had success the entire season thus far, what makes you think he'll revert back to the way he used to be directed to play? That's the thing...you don't know what we're going to get from Sammy since his game has changed this season. This isn't the same player that played the past few years for the Wings and he does look very different out there. He's not a star, but he's certainly playing great hockey for his calibre and who's to say it won't stick around if he doesn't revert back to his old style? Then why take it out on Samueslsson? The things is you and I both know Helm would be much closer to filling the shoes of Maltby than he would Sammy. Helm's style of play is just like Maltby's but younger, more energetic, along with an even more solid forecheck.

Interesting move, but considering their massive meltdown last year which ultimately made them miss the playoffs and the fact that they are hovering around that 8th spot, it seems the management just isn't comfortable heading towards mediocrity.

It doesn't matter what I know about their relationship. As a person, I wouldn't publicly seek out a camera crew to speak bad about any of my ex's regardless of how I feel about them. It's called having class. Of course some ex's do worse things than this to each other, but a good majority of them are above this petty bulls***. Clearly some people aren't.

Seriously YG, you've gotta be kidding. I'll assume you haven't read the "We need totally some other players right now" thread lately. For the paycheck he gets, Sammy is a bargain to say the least.

This isn't the New York Islanders. The Red Wings are once again a favorite to win the Cup and bringing in unproven guys like Leino or Helm (to a lesser extent) could likely hurt those chances. Besides, Helm doesn't even play close to the same type of role Sammy does. You're talking about bringing up a 4th line energy grinder to replace a guy that's been scoring consistently all season. That doesn't make much sense. Helm for Maltby is a whole other ball game. Why aren't people calling him instead of a guy that's actually producing? Before anyone says, its because Sammy and Malltby have different roles on the team...what do you think I was just saying in regards to Helm and Sammy?

Subjective is the key word. You and I just don't see it the same but I can appreciate that. Not everyone is going to see things the same or this board would be awfully dull. The fact of the matter is that all players have strengths and weaknesses....who's to say Sammy doesn't work on his downfalls after practice? Also, if Sammy was noticeably slow during gameplay I would like to think our Stanley Cup winning coach who prides himself and his team on work ethic would've mentioned it to him by now. My guess is he hasn't because Sammy skates up to his standards. Besides, I think this can go back to what I was saying about Sammy trying to read the play rather than it being him not skating hard. Either way....I think this argument has run it course.

Priceless!

Hockey aside, real classy thing to call your ex-girlfriend. What a tool.

I most certainly don't need stats and figures to back up things I hear unless I don't believe them to be true....hence why I questioned you or others that rag on Sammy. Rafalski I agree has been brutal this season for his salary, but its hard for me to lump Sammy into that category based on his production and his paycheck. Nobody gets a free pass from me either and I'll let any Red Wing know they've made a bonehead play when they make one (I.E. what I just said about Z's boneheaded clearing attempt late in the third), but I'm not about to rag on a guy that has been producing for the amount of money he makes in a league where guys like Sammy are required to fill out your roster. Sidenote: Nicely done on the Ricky Bobby movie line.....but I won't say it either.

Not going hard into the corners....You just described the majority of the Red Wings so far this year. It bothers me too, but its far from just Sammy. Same goes for finishing checks. I bet if you seriously analyzed every single game this year you could find this situation take with almost every single Red Wing regardless of their talent level. It depends if they felt they were out of the play or not or more importantly what part of their shift it was. Yes, I've seen even the almighty Z, Dats and Hossa not skate hard at a potential up-for-grabs puck.....but they get a free pass, right? Fewer Red Wings than the majority do that either. So does every $1.2 million player. Largely cut down this year....you should've noticed that. It isn't great, but compared to who's? Prove it. He's an offenseman for Christ's sake! Who cares if you are a sportswriter. Plenty of them are biased. As for my sarcasm....that's just the type of person I am sometimes, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong...just that we disagree. That's the point of a discussion board.

I'll even answer this one for you Opie. He turns the puck over as much or a little less than anyone else for his payscale, yet people constantly notice it because of an irrational hatred for the guy.

Seriously....I'm done. The only arguments being made are ones such as "I don't feel Sammy is has good as his numbers suggest" or "I find myself saying "What the F*ck Sammy!" Great arguments. [/sarcasm] Guess what, the numbers are indicative of his play. Yes, he has some garbage points....*who the f*** doesn't?* Once in a while I say, "What are you doing Sammy?" Guess what, I did that with Z last night on his bonehead clearing attempt. For the love of God people, there aren't any better proven options out there for $1.2 million and Kenny and Co need players like that to fill out the roster in a salary capped NHL. This is not that complicated. Apparently it is....

Whether or not you feel he deserves to be on the second line or the PP point really isn't an issue with Sammy though....its an issue with Babcock. I would agree that Sammy up until this season hasn't done too much to warrant a second line spot and as a result others have played on that line, but Sammy is making the most of it.....which is all one could ask. I thought Hudler-Z-Franzen was going to be lethal but Hudler struggled out of the gate. Filppula also isn't the right fit for that line because he doesn't have the vision a guy like Hudler does. It's actually pretty amazing that Sammy seems to be doing better than our other options right now. Credit him.

Of course Fil is the better all-around player, but he also makes a little over 2.5 times what Sammy does. That just strengthens the argument that Sammy is a solid deal. More than likely if Filppula was a RH'ed shot, he could very well replace Sammy on the PP however Sammy's there because of a lack of RH'ed options and because he's defensively responsible (which I'm sure you already know), but it doesn't change the fact that Sammy is there for the fact that he's responsible. Nobody's making him out to be a Superstar. I (as well some others) are giving the credit he deserves and he's earned this season. Now, you're just blowing things out of proportion. Probably not, but I would like to think I've laid out a solid foundation behind my argument. You seem to either be skipping over the point I'm making about his value which is the whole basis for my argument. You say Sammy is good bang for his buck, yet not as good as people are giving him credit. People are giving him credit because for *what he makes* it makes him a solid deal for the Wings. When Sammy gets paid like Hossa, Dats or what Z will get next season, then this comment will be valid. Until then, this comment is nothing more than apples to oranges. Also and for the last time, this isn't about Sammy being great or people defending him. This is simply about the fact that Sammy brings a lot to the table for his price tag. If people can't see that, I feel they're blind or simply haters because its the trendy thing to do. Unfortunately (even though it should be fortunately), it seems a lot of people on LGW are starting to "get it" in regards to Sammy's value and now some are claiming that's becoming trendy. Sad when any trend is actually right, but in this case the new trend is actually the correct one.

Then there's no point in debating because I believe he does "bring it" to his ability most every night. There are plenty of skaters out there that look as if they are coasting when they are simply reading the play. I'm not saying Sammy is one of those, but I do disagree with your assessment. People are standing up for Sammy because they see what he brings to the table for the paycheck he's earning. If you can't see that, nothing will convince you.

Like every player in the NHL "brings it" every game or every shift....Please. Besides, Sammy "brings it" to his ability as much as almost anyone. A lot of people thought Datsyuk didn't "bring it" for a while and coasted. While I'm most certainly not comparing Sammy to Dats, you don't hear that comment anymore. What does Sammy have to do to catch a break on this site? The answer is there's probably nothing he can do.

Your basing that on Leino playing against a lower tier of opponents. Also, Leino doesn't have the defensive ability or the habit of forechecking Sammy does. Helm hasn't showed he can be a scorer at this level and playing with 4th line grinders suits his style of play while it maximizes whats good for the team. Helm's strong forechecking and speed give the Wings a solid shutdown option, but that doesn't do you much good on a line with Zetterberg who's already one of (if not the) best defensive-offensemen in the league who's also playing next to a fairly defensively responsible Franzen. I know this is just your thought that I don't have to agree with but this is a message board, which is why I'm replying to it. Isn't that the point?

Your entire argument is based on a negative personal bias you have for him. Every player in the NHL *at Sammy's paylevel* makes plenty of mistakes or they wouldn't be making only $1.2 million, yet you continue to bash him as if the guy doesn't deserve to be in the NHL. Does Sammy make mistakes: absolutely. Is he well worth his $1.2 million and then some: you bet your ass he is. If you seriously want to go back and look at every game Sammy's played and pick apart a bad play he's made, have at it. I'll go back and pick out all the good plays he made and when we come together you'll look foolish because when its all said and done the guy brings more to the table for his light paycheck than he does to hinder it. You just don't like him...that's it.