NeverForgetMac25

As YG stated, you're comparing apples to oranges in regards to Z and Fedorov. Fedorov's ego didn't allow him to fit through the door at times and Z has been nothing short of a team player and zero maintenance. It'd be like comparing Lidstrom to a NBA player.

No doubt, which is why the main point of my posts have been about *working harder* and a sustained forecheck. Working harder creates opportunity to cycle down low and grind a team down, not to mention allows the Wings to play their puck-possession game.

I just don't feel you can solely pin the losses or poor defensive play simply on East/West passing. I made mention of poor East/West passes in the form of Lebda, Lilja and Rafalski but those are mental mistakes that can be corrected. That causes plenty of turnovers as well as when the opposition is forechecking. The fact of the matter is though, 9 times of 10 when the opposition does create a turnover, its their work down-low and fighting for the puck harder than the Wings that's causing these goals. I hate to say it, but the Wings defenseman look pretty cream-puff'ish when it gets dirty behind the goal line thus far this season. Now, couple that with the offense not committing to the forecheck like they did last season and you've got cause for why the Wings are playing the way they are. Perhaps I shouldn't have said its far from the problem....but IMHO, it isn't the main one either. They may not be as patient moving the puck East/West but they are having no problem getting the puck in the zone. The problem then is that they're not fighting to keep it. The same could be said about their lack of getting it back in the defensive zone.

The Philly 06/07 game still stings, and I still remember a game from the early 90's where the Wings held a 4-0 lead against the bitter rival Blackhawks. They blew it all in the third period and skated to a tie. The STL game that broke the Wings non-SO streak.

The transition game hasn't been has stellar as it was last year, but IMO its far from the problem. They are still getting the puck forward and netting bunches of goals. The problem is the ill-timed passing some defensemen have been making. I can't remember a season where a Wings D-man has already made as many lazy or blind passes that results in an odd man rush including a 1-0 breakaway with our goaltender. Lebda, Lilja and Rafalski have all made a bunch of these and its truly kept the defense on its heals, which is not how the Red Wings play. Couple that with zero sustained forecheck and you've got a recipe where our defensemen are getting worn out playing behind the boards all night. That being said, our D-men also need to be way more physical with the opposition. I know Kronwall and Stuart are pacing themselves so they don't wear themselves out before April, but the fact that Stuarts big hit against the Penguins was the first one from the Wings I can think of this year is unbelievable. Our D-men are being pushed off the puck in the defensive zone and that's another recipe for disaster. Again, bottom line is this team needs to *work* harder. If they do, no team in the NHL can match their skill and the Red Wings hockey we've all come to expect will be stronger than its ever been given the amount of talent on this roster.

Correct...that was Mac's "version" of the story. Really what supposedly happened was that Stevie called himself out and said he needed to get better and then he said he would. Then he said they all needed to get better.

Doesn't change the fact that his intentions probably wouldn't have been honorable had he stayed. Especially if he did want out, what kind of GM would you expect with that mindset? Probably one that would've traded for Sundin at the deadline to "help" out Anaheim.

To an extent.

Well, TBH...it makes sense. If a goalie can get away with it and give his boys a breather at a crucial time you'll be hard-pressed to find many goalies that wouldn't take advantage of a situation like that. Is it cheap: absolutely. Can it also be very smart: without a doubt.

Latest? Got any link confirming that? Besides, if Burke's intentions were honorable I'm sure the Ducks would've wanted him to ride out the season. Keep in mind, according to most media he's a great GM. Why wouldn't you want that around? There's a reason for it if you ask me.

Clearly....but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised given all the rumors surrounding Burke this past year. I'd be very willing to bet the powers above knew what was likely coming as the season unfolded had Burke remained in power.

edicius is gonna cream himself! Nelson laughing at Burke is anything and everything this thread needs. Very wise move by the Ducks' brass considering Burke's potential motives as this season unfolds...especially the deadline.

Exactly...you click the link and the first thing you see is Nascar and supposedly Hockey is the boring one?

This is a typical, "I can't beat 'em, so I'm gonna make fun of them" attempt that truly grasped at straws. You know you've reached new levels of stupidity when you rip on Champions for not being assholes. Congrats Jay Busbee, you are the dumbest sports writer I've ever encountered.

For Z, they'll possibly break the Lidstrom line but it will only happen with Nick's blessing. I can see arguments for Z signing anywhere from both $7.45 million (Lidstrom's exact salary) to all the way up to $8 million. As for Hossa, I don't think 2 players on the Wings will make more than Lidstrom, and if push comes to shove Kenny will be loyal to Z before Hossa.

Until Matt decides to stop paying for the server the player bashing will never cease. I'm most certainly not a "Rhaw, Rhaw!" fan, but I also don't sugar-coat things when a player has played (or is playing) poorly. That being said, I'm realistic about what a player can and can't do. Some people here let their emotions get the best of them far too often. Sad, isn't it?

A Z-D-Hossa line isn't going to fix the Wings' defensive lapses and lack of forecheck. The fact of the matter is the defense is playing porous and the offense isn't helping them one bit. People continue to complain about the defense looking terrible yet overlook the offense simply because they are potting goals. The fact of the matter is in order to be successful the Wings need to start committing to team defense and a consistent forecheck rather than just offense. That is seriously the one and only area this team is lacking on right now. Commit to *team* defense along with a consistent, strong forecheck and all these problems go away.

For a good portion of players it is risky, but Z has already stated he wants nothing more than to finish his career with the Red Wings. He's about to get married and his fiance just moved over from Sweden to support him. He's found a home in Detroit and he's not going to split over some team offering him $9 million per as opposed to the $7.5-$8 he'll get from the Wings.

No. Even if Z did get pushed back into FA, it will be by design with Kenny and him having a full understanding to see what they can get, all the while having a slight range of salary/term in mind.

You really need to stop being so quick to hit the reply button because my comment about the injury bug is more than valid. You not thinking in terms of the entire team...you're thinking in terms of Hossa. Yes, before last season Hossa has been healthy as an ox over the course of his career, but I'm not just talking Hossa...I'm talking about the *entire* Red Wings team. Say your boy is healthy the rest of his career and doesn't miss a game. What happens if Z's back flares up and Datsyuk breaks an ankle. All of a sudden with all those players that *you* said this team could be without would've been invaluable. Where do you come up with these insinuations? Never once did I say I want Howard to rot in GR...I want Howard to *earn* a spot. As for guys gaining experience, aside from Lidstrom its not as if any kid in GR won't have plenty of time to gain experience with everyone on that list aside from Lidstrom. Again, you're perfect world of keeping Hossa fails to address *team* injury woes. Furthermore, grow up....you sound like a child with the first part of this paragraph. :rotflmao: When have I ever treated guys like Flip and Hudler like they are "freaking all-stars". Dallas, you've been around this site a long time, and you of all people should know I've never done anything close to that. Flip and Hudler are disposable, but its not just them...its Franzen as well, which you failed to mention again. Those are 2 solid players with the third having the potential to truly break out and be a big up-front power forward. Again, Hossa is > Hudler and Flip...but its not just them, its Franzen as well and depth starting to be reduced to go with it. As for the trade deadline, I absolutely would've pulled the Hossa for Filppula trigger given where the Wings were and the opportunity they had heading into the postseason. However, that doesn't change the fact that it isn't smart hockey GM'ing to dump a ton of *solid* depth (not garbage depth) to grab what could of been a rental. Hindsight shows Kenny once again made the right move, which is why he's the best GM in hockey. But you go ahead and continue to blow sun up Hossa's ass and talk about how he's all the Red Wings could ever need. I'll tell you what, I'll take a balanced team over Hossa and a bunch scrubs any day.

I'm not sure if you forgot what I posted in my initial reply to you or just didn't touch on it, but my point about injuries was unaddressed by you. Regardess of Hossa's all-world skills, if the injury bug hits him and a guy like Dats or Z's back flares up for an extended period of time, you're talking quite a thin lineup without the players that would have to moved in order to keep Hossa. Not to mention the fact that bumps and bruises sideline guys during a long regular season and this team isn't immune to injury. Last February proved that. Also, to say that the Wings aren't losing much by dumping guys like Flip and Hudler because we have Leino, Abdelkader and Helm waiting in GR isn't accurate. First and foremost, you're missing a huge asset to any team....experience. Not only experience but playoff and Stanley Cup final experience. You can't buy stuff like that, and whether you feel so or not it's extremely important to a team, especially one with perennial Cup expectations like the Wings. This is absolutely no knock on Hossa whatsoever but you need to stop referring to him as a perennial 100-point guy, because he's not. No doubt he has the potential every year to near that mark, but only once in his career has Hossa hit triple digits for points and that was a 100 point campaign exactly. Throwing out his off/injured season last year where he only managed 66 points, in his past 4 years his average total has been 88.5 points per season. I'm not trying to be nitpicky, but 12 points is a decent sized difference from what you continue to call Hossa, which is a perennial 100 point scorer.

No doubt Hossa is a world class talent that the likes of Franzen, Filppula, Hudler etc. will never be able match. *However*, while keeping a guy like Hossa would be incredible, I don't feel Kenny's loyalty is getting in the way if Hossa happens to part after this season. Of course Hossa can take over a game, but guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk have shown they can do the same at times. This teams strongest asset isn't Marian Hossa, its the machine that the unit is. Subtracting a piece here and there to make a difficult decision isn't the worst thing (and its something Kenny has done and will do), *but* losing too many pieces to keep one player can be just as (if not more so) costly. We all know what happens to a team with too much salary on the top 3-4 guys...the rest of the team suffers. Not to mention Kenny and Co. would be banking on his health throughout the entire length of the contract. Lose a couple high end guys to injury and your team all of a sudden looks extremely thin. The bottom line is, the sum is always greater than the parts. That being said, don't get me wrong....I'd love to keep Hossa especially the way he's played not only this season but the way he has his entire career. I'll be thrilled if Kenny can hang on to him for the right price and without sacrificing a good chunk of our depth, but I'm not going to claim Kenny's loyalty is getting in the way if Hossa can't be retained.

Says the person who doesn't want Gaborik taking points from the Ducks next season.

Keep in mind that weekly updated power rankings generally weigh the most recent weeks' play very highly. The Red Wings only played 1 game, while the Blackhawks have won their past 4 dominating in 3 of those....hence the high rating. Nothing to fret about. Lastly, I agree the Sharks are the deserved #1 right now. They look great!

From what I understand, teams have the option of letting a new deal affect the current years' cap number (I.E. the Alfredsson extension). It is at the teams discretion depending upon their current cap situation. Obviously, last year would've been a great opportunity for the Wings to relieve some of their average cap-hit given where they finished cap-wise.