NeverForgetMac25

I wouldn't be too concerned about that. Even if Z had a slightly down year, he's going to get a nice raise that he deserves. Sidenote: As for being underpaid, I absolutely love the way the NHL's CBA doesn't allow players to renegotiate theirs contracts at any point. It pisses me off so much watching these head-cases in the NFL tells their respective teams that if they don't get paid more they'll hold-out, yet they were there to sign the contract in the first place. How fair.

Like I said, the world, nor I am out to get you. I was referring to the way Sammy is treated here because it seems to be popular belief. If you took it to mean I was coming at you, then I don't know what to tell you.

Meh.....TBH, I'm not too impressed. They seem like something a kid would come up with.

How exactly is that putting words in your mouth? I never said that *you* singled Sammy out, just that he's the trendy choice of LGW. The world isn't out to get you.

God forbid someone such as myself would argue your points and bring up his salary into a debate about whether or not his roster spot should be taken over by Helm or Leino. I most certainly didn't change the subject, I simply added that his salary along with what he brings to the table makes him more attractive than the other two players in question. You just chose not to acknowledge that and instead went off on some tangent that I somehow changed the subject, when the truth is you had no answer to the question I asked you. Perhaps the "win" comment was offsides, but you never did name a single player that brings to the table what Sammy does for the price tag he has. Tell you what, I'll even narrow it down to the players in question......Helm and Leino *currently* don't bring to the table what Sammy does. Is that better?

The same could be said about a couple other forwards on the Wings, yet conveniently Sammy is always the only one who is wasting cap space.

I brought it up because it was an important point in relation to what you were saying. Besides, Sammy's salary does play an important role in discussing whether or not Helm or Leino should take his spot. Gofigure that it would get brought up. Likewise, questions to you seem to fall upon deaf ears. We should just move on seeing as that we're getting nowhere.

All I did was question you back. What's the problem here?

That's what I was going for. I asked for a player to be named that brings to the table what Sammy does for that salary, and didn't get a response.

Is this what you're supposed to write when you're proven wrong. Don't be upset with me because you don't like that I questioned your position. This a forum after all. Sidenote: No one change the subject any more than you did.

No, my exact comment was: "Compared to what he makes his numbers are great. That's important when filling out your roster which is the type of player Samuelsson is (a space filler)." Every team has space-fillers and needs them to stay under that cap. Sammy, while a space-filler on the Red Wings (compared to the top tier players in Detroit) is an absolute bargain for what he brings to the table. It's not as simple as saying "we have talented youth so get these youngins into the system and let them play" for multiple reasons. First and foremost, while their salary is comparable but slightly less than Sammy's they don't bring to the table what he does (Experience, "Guaranteed" Points in the tune of 45-50'ish). The massive point that people always tend to overlook is the system the Wings utilize. The reason the Wings are able to stay competitive and under the cap isn't just due to the brass, player-paycuts and coaching. It also has to do with bringing players up at the last possible moment to keep their salaries in check until Free Agency. When you bring up a kid as late as the Red Wings have been able to do, you have the luxury of keeping their salary in check rather than having to pay them top dollar at a young age. In other words, its not always just about who the "Best" player is, its about who the "Right" player is. For how much Sammy is paid, what he contributes (year-in and year-out), he's a better option on our bottom 2 lines *currently* than the alternatives.

In other words....win NFM25 and toby_91. QFT

Name one player that makes as little as Sammy does and not only puts up the point totals he does, but plays solid defense. IMO, the bolded isn't debatable. His shot accuracy leaves something to be desired, but name a better player on the current Wings roster to play the 2nd unit PP point. It's not a coaching issue....Babcock recognizes that Sammy brings more to that unit than any other player on this current roster (including Stuart who played alongside Kronwall since February).

I brought it up because way too many members here think Sammy is utter sh*t because he doesn't put up massive numbers. Compared to what he makes his numbers are great. That's important when filling out your roster which is the type of player Samuelsson is (a space filler). He's a role guy thats underpaid for what he brings to the team. There are other guys that were expected to have better production in the NSH series that didn't, but somehow Sammy gets thrown under the bus once again. Hence my comment....how convenient.

The point is, you're ripping on a guy that makes next to nothing in salary based on a performance that wasn't overly worse than his pay scale woud dictate in a single playoff series last year. You fail to give credit to any other point in the playoff run and instead focus on one mediocre series for him in which he wasn't a detriment to the team. Why not single out the guys that statistically compared to Sammy in that series? Versus NSH Samuelsson: 0G, 1A, 1 Pts, Even +/- Cleary: 0G, 1A, 1 Pts, +2 Filppula: 1G, 0A, 1 Pts, Even +/- Maltby: DNP (Would've more than likely had worse stats than Samuelsson)

Yeah, because no other low-paid Red Wing had a "poor showing (1 point, Even +/- vs. NSH)" at any point in the playoffs aside from Sammy against the Preds..... How convenient.

Of all the individuals on that team he's definitely the "best choice", but people (not you Heaton--I'm fairly confident you know this already) need to realize that he's not going to have the "C" on his jersey due to the rule. The problem though lies in what will Luongo be able to contribute to the team outside of TV Timeout and locker room speeches?

Anaheim at any point of the playoffs would feel nice. Chicago as well, since I loathe their fans.

Last year he did, but he was absolute garbage before that. Two seasons ago he was pulled in 3 of 4 straight games against Detroit, and within the first 10 minutes in two of those games IIRC.

This has to be a joke......... ?

Maybe to Thompson, but not me. I hope Favre does well in NY. I've always loved him and it wasn't as if he wanted to leave the Packers. Besides...the better he does, the better the Jets do and the better the draft pick the Packers get.

When the negotiations were taking place with Hossa this summer Kenny also told Marian that he'd have to check with Lidstrom before agreeing to the contract he wanted (which I believe was $8 million for 1 year) with Detroit. Hossa then asked Kenny what Lidstrom made and after hearing his number, he told him not to bother asking Lidstrom if it was ok and that he would just play for what Lids does. While I believe Nick should be consulted first on any contract that could potentially be worth more than what he makes (simply due to the fact that the Wings are able to stay as competitive as they have due to his paycuts), Z might be the first player to exceed Lidstrom's pay in a long time. If he does, it won't be much more than what Nick makes, and TBH I don't see Lids being upset if the number is slightly more and its a guy like Z thats been around since the start and is now in his prime. It's different with him than bringing in an UFA.

The interesting part is currently the Blackhawks have just over $2 million in cap space. Why do they "need" to dump Khabi anyway unless they are planning on making a huge splash after cuts are made and at the deadline. $2 million in cap room at the deadline allows the Blackhawks to bring in over a $10 million yearly cap hit player(s). They must really be shooting for the playoffs this year.

Toby and Heaton are correct. No way in hell Z will be signed for $7 million per. You're fooling yourself if you think he'll get Datsyuk money due to the cap increase and where he is at this point in his career compared to where Dats was when he signed his deal.

TBH Tim, the Packers are really hard to get a read on right now. The only player that has shown up consistently for them has been Woodson who continues to flourish. Other than that, they played Dallas tight until falling apart and yesterday anything and everything that could go wrong for the Packers did. That's not saying that the Bucs got lucky, because they most certainly were the better team yesterday, but the Packers were just complete and utter s*** after the first series. The running game was non-existent, there was no protection, Rodgers wasn't moving around when the pressure was on (which he had done very successfully the first 3 games) and the D-Line really struggled giving up a single big play per series. TBH, all these things are different than what they showed the first couple weeks, and I still refuse to believe that they aren't a contender. I'm hoping this will be the kick in the balls they need to come together and play with some unity like they were last year. Our blocking has to get better, but our RB's really need to have better vision as well. If they don't, the Packers become one-dimensional and Rodgers isn't ready to carry a team on his back yet the way Favre was able to last year. Here's hoping for a turnaround. As for the Bears, they're so schizophrenic I wouldn't call them the division winners just yet. Their defense is playing like they did two seasons ago, but if they get a few injuries and Orton continues to play with inconsistency it'll most certainly catch up with them. No matter how you slice it, our division isn't looking very strong right now. The NFC East.....WOW!