NeverForgetMac25

You can call it "ideal". I'm gonna stick to what I consider reality. True, it seemed like the Wings had beyond the slimmest chance of nabbing Hossa, but Z and Marian signing for $4 and Mule for $2 doesn't even have a snowballs chance in hell of coming to fruition. Ideal is one thing, but those numbers are the furthest thing from reality.

First and foremost, there was no chance Z was going to sign for anything under $7. Second, if that's the number they're currently kicking around, its beyond a steal when compared to plenty of players around the league. Staal is supposedly getting more than $8 million per and aside from his age, Z is superior to him in every way. We all know that players must sacrifice money to be on the Wings but if Kenny somehow managed to sign Z long-term for $7.2 it would another absolute steal. Another great way of looking at this is what Datsyuk signed for. If $7.2 is the number, thats only $500,000 more per when the salary cap is well over $10 million more than it was when Dats signed. On top of that, Dats hadn't proved himself *yet* in the playoffs at the time of his signing and hadn't shown much of any hints that he would transform his game to what he did the past couple seasons (especially last year). Kenny, if Z wants $7.2 long-term *right now*.....take it! We'll figure out Hossa, Mule and Huds later. Besides, that number would send yet another clear message to both Mule and Hudler (Hossa already took his paycut) about sacrifice because $7.2 isn't near what Z is worth on the open market.

I wouldn't even consider this the "ideal situation" because it goes beyond plausible.

You probably should've added the bolded comment to clear up your stance. I wasn't getting on your case specifically one bit, rather the fans of Pittsburgh that are simply mad because he left town. As for giving up a ton to get Hossa, that isn't a valid reason for any player to re-sign with the team that traded for them. Hossa had nothing to do with those negotiations, nor was his re-signing with the Pens part of the deal. He simply went where Atlanta got the most for him, but that doesn't in anyway obligate him to re-sign. I'm glad you understand that Hossa owes Pittsburgh nothing (even though I'm not 100% sure you do with your "how much PIT gave up" comment), but that seems to be the consensus amongst a good amount of Pens fans. I simply asked why you felt betrayed......I never once stated that you yourself felt he owed the Penguins anything.

What exactly is a "cool" color?

^ This The guy has been nothing short of the most humble champion in sports. When he clearly dominates anyone in his path and then talks about how he has to raise his game (which he usually didn't have to) to stay on top, it shows how great of a person he is. It's funny actually, I used to always want to see Roddick beat Federer but it never seemed to happen. Instead, Federer would just cruise to win most majors. Now that he's had an off season (by his standards) I find myself rallying behind him and cheering for him (once Roddick is out that is) simply because of how great of person and champion he is. I think a lot of other people are as well because of his humility throughout his dominance. Murray will have his time, but I'm glad Federer got this one.

The scouting one is great!

That was the point I was getting at NN. Hossa owed Pittsburgh nothing and a solid portion of their fans felt he owed them the world and then some.

Why do you feel betrayed?

CGY DAL DET MTL PIT STL TOR WAS (I love their new unis)

Immensely. What are you asking? I'm hoping not, but who knows. If anyone can make it work, its Kenny.

You pretty much just answered my question here. Here's the thing, this all sounds great and I'd love to see it happen.....it just seems too great and too easy. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

What impression do you get? From what I understand, Hossa is looking to have a great upcoming season and is really excited to be a part of the Wings. He's stated that he'll see how things go and how well he fits into the organization. I'm not saying he's gonna want to leave (he may be a "lifer" given his attitude/commitment to winning and the decision he made this offseason), but I don't think it going to be an early deal either. I just don't see him re-signing with the Wings before the playoffs and if thats the case he won't sign until after they conclude given that Kenny rarely negotiates contracts during the postseason.

I'd be fine with it because he owes the Red Wings nothing. I wouldn't want to see it obviously because if he's successful with the Wings I'd want to see him stick around. However, the guy will have filled his contractual obligation and when it comes down to it, he'll owe the Red Wings nothing. He's the one that took the paycut to be here for this year. I'm just happy we have him for the upcoming season, because 99% of the time players don't do what Marian did this offseason.

I don't agree NN. Franzen, sure.....Hudler, maybe....but Hossa is in a totally different situation. Don't get me wrong, it would be great if your scenario worked out. It would be dream come true, but it already sounds as if Hossa will see what happens after the season concludes and I highly doubt Kenny waits that long to lock Z up. I'm sure there isn't too much concern of Z going elsewhere, but I just don't see he and Kenny waiting until that close to the deadline to get something done. The only way I can see your scenario working out is if the two of them (Kenny and Z) come to an agreement in principal before the playoffs which will include scenarios for each soon-to-be UFA and what that will mean for his salary. Still, the chances of figuring out something like that with the uncertainty of the cap and the lack of time is cutting it too close.

Absolutely....but this jersey just looks like sh*t, IMO. There are plenty of jerseys out there both new and old that I like alot, but this isn't one of them.

I'm gonna come out and say it isn't going to be done real quick. Both Kenny and Z are on the same page and they both understand what this signing entails for both Henrik and the cap. They both want the same thing, which is for Z to be here long-term. There's no real surprises, so now its just a matter of both sides being able to live with the number/term they come to. I'm guessing they'll come to a deal sometime in December.

I wonder what 3rd-grader won that jersey-design competition. That's rough.

I'm sure that will play into the negotiations.

The big comment:

QFT Don't get me wrong, I'm sure we'll see that unit at some point when the Wings need a quick strike but putting all the eggs in one basket isn't necessarily going to be beneficial in the long run. I think about the playoffs and how important it is to get that second PP unit rolling and just how devastating it can be for the opposition. As fun as it would be to see that unit, I know this will end up giving the Wings more balance and lead to more scoring in the long run.

The only time I can see that happening is toward the end of a game in which the Wings have the PP, are trailing and need a quick goal. Other than that, Babs is going to play two balanced PP units which will ultimately be better for the team in the long run anyway.

It'll be Hossa if he stays alongside Dats. If the Dats line struggles and Babs is forced to go back to old faithful (ZDH) it could very well be a toss-up and Z might finish with more.

This hypothetical reasoning is really starting to stretch. The bottom line is that *most likely* Lids' goals number probably improves while his assist total drops. With that, he'd likely be paired with Commodore who isn't exactly garbage (but nothing great either) who would help Lids by being a stay-at-home Dman (ala Lilja) and allow him to be more offensive. He finished plus 40 playing a solid chunk of 06/07 with Lilja and finished with that same number last year alongside Rafalski, which tells you alot about anybody he's paired with. Now, I know the offense in front of him has a big part in what a Dman finishes in the +/- category, but its not going to be the difference of 28 like you suggest. There are poor teams out there with Dmen that finish well ahead of their other pairings. Lastly, while it obviously isn't as nice as moving pucks to Z, Dats, Hossa and Co., its not as if he's passing to a bunch of PeeWee's. He would still have a couple scorers and he would still QB a PP that would all of a sudden become much more of a threat. As you said though.....thank God we have him. With that, I think this convo' has ran its course. Nice debating with you.

Mule absolutely, but no chance Z signs for even the max of what you just suggested (2009 salary: $2.9 million + $4 million increase = $6.9 million). At *best*, Z will be signing for around $7.25-$7.5 million.