NeverForgetMac25

Where you're off here (as you mentioned was a possibility) is with Leino. He won't help the Wings' cap situation. Players that would be moved to help keep the big 3 would be guys like Sammy, or like you said, a bottom pairing Dman that can be replaced with a minimum wager. Leino won't make won't make enough at the time to make much of any difference to the Wings' cap number.

Great start to the season and to Rodgers' career! It's never too early to start beating the Vikings in your career.

No doubt it would be harder for Nick to get numbers in a BJ's sweater, but its not as if he wouldn't put up points. If you look at last seasons' Goals For, Detroit had 252 while Columbus had 190. Now, obviously you can't just take away 10 goals from Detroit's total and add it to Columbus' and say that they're now within 42 total goals of each other. Thats to simplistic of a way to look at things. However, what you can assume is that Nick would be far more heavily relied on in a BJ sweater than he would be in Detroit simply due to the depth the Wings have in comparison to the Jackets. Now, assuming his role becomes greatly increased one could conceivably assume his numbers could possibly as well. Be it taking the line and shooting more or playing more minutes than he currently does. Bottom line is that we can't say with 100% certainty, but I have a feeling he'd be just fine in Columbus.

Not only that, but think about his opponents that have to shake his hand after the match. Do they even realize how bad of a stink-palm they're getting? BTW, absolutely thrilled to see Federer win the Open!

I'll be at the game tonight!

I tend to agree. Filppula put up just over half that amount (36 Points) last season and to think he's all of a sudden going to near-double his production is a little far-fetched unless his line improves. Playing alongside Cleary and Sammy and getting 3rd line minutes isn't going to help increase his chances of reaching that plateau. If he was playing with any of our Big 3 his chances become mediocre.

Agreed Lids, you stick him in Columbus he'll still win the Norris. He's my pick.

Centering Cleary & Sammy? Babs has already stated his second line will showcase Z centering Hudler and Franzen. I suppose 70 points is *possible*, but certainly not likely.

No it won't. Lebda being moved on clears $650,000 off the Wings cap hit....Lilja clears almost double that ($1.25 million). Not that I'm happy that Lilja is going to be moved, because I'm not. Besides, Lebda is locked in for the 09/10 season at that same cap hit.

Welcome to the boards. Just a little heads up, its never a bad idea to use the "search forum" dialog box at the bottom of the general discussion page when posting non-news related threads. It helps keep the duplicates to a minimum.

It has nothing to do with glossing over the statistic. This is about people who rank him as high as he is simply because of that single stat. My point is, if AO puts up 40 goals last year, are we even having this discussion? I don't think you got my reasoning.

Let's see, gofigure that Ovechkin would have more offensive skill, a better shot or speed then Lidstrom. He's plays *offense*. There are tons of players that have more "offensive skill", a better shot or speed than Lidstrom, but that doesn't make them a better *player*. If you're going to make arguments based on that, I could bring up categories such as "Defensive Skill, PP management (QB'ing), Positional Posturing, Reading the Ice, etc." Aside from the last point, is that fair to bring up, because there are tons of Defensemen that blow AO out of the water in those departments. Strength/Physicality is kind of a moot argument between AO and Lidstrom simply because Nick doesn't play that style of hockey (and part of the reason Lids is so durable -- he doesn't put himself in situations where he goes down for periods of time). I could say Lidstrom is smarter than AO (which by the way...he is 10-fold) because he doesn't put himself in the position to take the physical toll on his body that someone like AO does. The key here is the *all-around* hockey player. Lids just put up 70 points the following season (showing his massive offensive skill at the defensive position), plays better defense and reads the game far superior to anyone in the world, and is quietly (and most likely) the best leader in the game right now. For the last time, Age has nothing to do with this list whatsoever. This is about who is the best player in the league/world *right now*. It doesn't matter if AO is younger, that point is moot given the circumstances of this list. Lids doesn't win the Norris on the Blue Jackets... Why is it that everybody that plays alongside Lidstrom always magically has career years? There's a reason for it. Because way too many fans simply look at things such as who lead the league in scoring and assume that makes them the best player in the league. Far from it. Don't put words in my mouth in regards to THN's competence or lack-there-of. I never ripped them apart of called them stupid for their picks. I just don't agree with it. It's easy to look at a scoring title and state that that individual is the "best" player in the game. It can also be short-sighted.

For those of you that claim AO is the best player in the game, give me reasoning *aside* from his 62 goals last season. I do.

I'm not going to go mental on you, but I do disagree with a few of your comments. First and foremost, please tell me you're kidding with the bolded comment. To make an argument about goals being scored while he was on the ice against the other top lines of the leagues top teams is ridiculous. Of course goals are going to be scored against while he's on the ice. What player in the world doesn't have goals scored against his team while they're in? Now, look at those players and see how many goals Lidstrom prevented with his play. Not to mention that Lidstrom plays more per game than any other Red Wing so statistically he's is more likely to have more goals get scored against while he's on the ice than anyone else on the Wings. Every single player on your Top-5 list was on the ice for plenty of goals against during the playoffs, but Lidstrom prevents way more than any player in the world. Now, this isn't even a shot....merely a question: What rationalization do you have for listing Ovechkin as the number 1 player in the world *right now*? Same goes for the other 3 you listed ahead of Lidstrom. Once I've heard from you, I'll be happy to list the reasons why Lidstrom is better right now than any of those four. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it if were talking about the best player in world *right now*.

Matt is Lazy and he Sucks! Atleast, I think thats his creation. ???

QFT While Z and Dats have more upside at this point in time due to their age compared to Lidstroms, if were talking about the Top 50 in the game right now, Lidstrom is not only ahead of Z and D but he's number 1 on that list. If you were to build a team around one player for the *upcoming season only* I don't know how Lidstrom isn't that guy.

No I'm not. I'm 99.9% sure Hossa has a no-movement clause.

^ This. Last year wasn't a fluke. He's was good before, but since revising his game he's been great. Nothing leads to believe that won't be the case this season. Lastly, to the OP....Osgood wasn't just solid last year. The year before that he was just as consistent, but Dom was his regular self and deserved the nod in the playoffs.

Do *you* of all people want to bark up that tree? I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. The mods are doing everything we can to make sure this site runs smoothly and efficiently.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Hossa have a clause in his contract that he can't be moved this season? I could've sworn that was part of the deal.

In terms of defense, I agree, but there are plenty of areas where Hudler is miles ahead of Filppula. As you said, his shot is great (much better than Val's), he's got way better offensive instincts than Filppula will ever have and he's a better playmaker. Pretty much everything you just said about Filppula could be turned around and said about Hudler. Putting him on the second line is an opportunity to instill a ton of confidence in him. With Z and Franzen on the second line, Hudler makes way more sense than Val ever will. The fact of the matter is putting Hudler on that second unit makes it greatly resemble the first in that you have two of the best playmaking centers in the game, along with two snipers that are great at moving puck as well, complete with two of the best net front presences. Then you've got a third line that won't have an abundance of pressure to put pucks in that will absolutely still give you scoring. What could be better?

Putting Hudler on the second line not only helps balance things out, it makes that line much more potent. Hudler and Z both have great instincts and Franzen is starting to show up Holmstrom in front of the net. Having Hudler play with Z will open things up way more than Filppula playing with Z and then you've got Franzen creating havoc in front of the net. That second line is much scarier with Huds on it than it would be with Filppula.

No worries T. The thing is though, Sammy is beyond defensively responsible and having a RH and a LH shot on the backend of the second PP unit helps move things around and create chances. You don't get that with Kronner playing alongside another LH shot. You're correct in saying that Kronner is an offensive Dman (and he showed it in the playoffs), so why wouldn't you want a partner alongside him that can allow him to maximize that offensive potential on the PP? Sammy can offer that, Stuart can't.

It's not about having done serious research, its about responding to comments/claims as if you know they are incorrect when they in fact were correct in the first place. I happen to watch quite a bit of hockey and generally if I post about which players are playing what positions/times I'm not just pulling it out of my ass.

For some reason I seem to recall Sammy on the 2nd pp more than Stuart???? I could be wrong though. You're not wrong Opie. The numbers I posted above show Sammy was on the second pairing with Kronwall.