NeverForgetMac25

I would agree with that, but what does that mean for the 09/10 season? Lids is signed through that year at $7.45, so are you assuming Z will have the same amount (or slightly less than that) during the 09/10 season and then his contract will get proportionally larger averaging out to $7.6 per? Or do you think Kenny will get the okay from Lids and he'll have a flat rate of $7.6?

Agreed. With the paycuts Lids takes and him being the benchmark for salaries in Detroit, I assume Z will end up with a long-term (5-6 years) contract in the $7.25-$7.40 million range.

The Vikings -- God I hate them! As for the Lions, its kind of hard to blame the guy for putting them in here, although the Wings as a whole are certainly more successful than the Pistons.

Kenny's seeing if he can bring in another couple of soft-Euro's before he gives Downey or Mac a look. Bad NFM!

Had you said this from the get-go, it would've probably reduced this thread greatly. If that's what you want to see, that's fine....but it isn't gonna win games. Chemistry, hard work, and team toughness are what win games.

I'll say it again....stating that the Wings don't "carry an enforcer" does not mean they are soft.

Between "MAKE IT HAPPEN!" and "Lazy & Sucks", LGW needs to start patenting these phrases. Talk about virtual gold.

Exactly. The team philosophy is quite different than when Shanny left. The current Red Wings style of play does not fit the type of player Shanny now is.

Absolutely! It doesn't surprise me one bit that he's already been offered jobs from media outlets before he's even retired.

[/sarcasm] ?????

Good for him. It'd be nice to see him have a solid year and finish on a high note. Before anyone suggests it, no he isn't coming back to the Wings nor should we want him back.

I firmly believe that is not the same thing as calling the Wings "soft".

Agreed. Keep in mind HS, that I never once stated that I don't want to see the Wings replace the toughness lost by Drake or that there is no need for Downey or Mac to be signed. I agree that its important to have guys like that to balance your team out, however I also feel that as this Red Wings team continues to play with more team toughness each and every night, the need for a flat-out goon becomes less and less important. A guy like Drake is the furthest thing from a goon. He's the definition of a checker/grinder. He hits hard, sticks up for his teammates but plays phenomenal defense to go with it. Neither Downey or Mac come close to bringing that element of play with them. While those two can certainly help with the toughness factor, IMO it would be much more beneficial bringing in a guy like Drake to replace the void that he left rather than both Mac and Downey. I guess what I'm saying in a roundabout way is that I do agree that the Wings would benefit from having a guy like Mac or Downey around, as that balance can never hurt. However, it most certainly would be nice to have someone that could also play hockey. I just think people are jumping off the deep end too quickly because I'm 99.9% sure Kenny will fill the void with someone as soon as the Val situation plays out.

And how many "big goals" are guys like Downey gonna score for the Wings? No doubt that a huge check or a key fight can fire a team up, I understand that and I do agree that the Wings should bring in Downey or Mac for the upcoming season. However, I'm not going to go as mental as some have in this thread over the need to lock up Downey or Mac (or both) immediately to "protect" these skill guys because not only have these Wings (as a whole) showed they play with team toughness night-in and night-out, but I'm 99.9% confident that once the picture with Val becomes clearer Kenny will work something out with a player of that ilk.

Funny......I always thought that was the coach's job.

I'm sure the Wings are very concerned what a bunch of fans and announcers of opposing teams say about them. [/sarcasm] As for the opposing teams, I challenge you to provide a link of any player in the NHL that has come out and directly stated that the Wings are a soft team this past season. Don't just make that comment unless you have something to back it up. Anyway, this thread has run its course over and over again. The fact of the matter is that once Filp is re-signed Kenny will more than likely lock down either Downey or Mac since he'll have a clearer picture of what the team cap will look like. I understand he's offered both players a contract, but if either is reluctant to sign, Kenny may change the offer a bit based on the outcome of Val.

TBH, I think thats already been determined. Conkblock at $750,000 is an absolute steal and Howard can spend another year in GR getting regular playing time. If the organization was confident that Jimmy is going to be the guy for the future they probably would've just rolled the dice with him and Oz. To me, this is gonna give Jimmy one more season to sh*t or get off the pot. Besides, McCullom anyone?

With Hossa now on the team the chance of Lidstrom winning the Hart is even less than it was last year.

Which direction guys like Filppula and Franzen take is the most intriguing thing to me. I'm curious to see if Franzen can reasonably continue the tear he started last March and be that force the Wings are looking for. If his numbers are even somewhat close to Bertuzzi in his prime then the Wings are in phenomenal shape. Also, I'm really excited to see Filppula round out his offensive game. He may not have the offensive instincts of guys like Hudler, but it'll be nice to see if he's worked on it in the offseason and with the addition of Hossa if he'll become a little more offensive-minded. I'm not worried about Hossa fitting in or how many points he's gonna put up, because I know it'll be a sh*t-ton.

TBH, I'm not so sure Z or Hossa will land $8 million a piece from Detroit. Z has been around long enough to understand Detroit's philosophy and Hossa has already taken on to the Red Wing mindset of Cups require sacrifice. Couple that with Lids still having another year left on his $7.45 million contract for the 09/10 season and I see Z and Hossa signing for similar long-term $7.25 million contracts. If Lids had just this year remaining on his contract and his status for the following year was up the air, who knows what Z or Hossa would sign for, but as long as Lids is on the team I believe the single player salary maximum will go as he goes. Since he's locked in for the next two years at $7.45 million I don't see anyone eclipsing him simply due to the fact that *he* takes paycuts to keep the Red Wings where they are.

That's a pretty loaded statement. TBH, if you know of a loophole I would think the many people Burke has working for him would as well. Team management know and understand the CBA word for word.....they have to in order take every advantage they can of it. I guess what I'm saying is that if you actually have a loophole, I wouldn't be too worried about posting it here and sharing with us because I guarantee if you know it, every other GM in the NHL does as well.

Perhaps my sarcastic tone is lost on some. I keep forgetting that there are members that aren't here all the time and don't understand that side of me. The majority of this board knows I mean nothing malicious though. I think some people are just wound a little tight right now. TBH, some here are just a little too PC and then they turn around and attack others.

Alright dude, were done. I was hoping to have a conversation with you but obviously that won't work. It's funny how you insinuate things about me yet I'm not the one throwing personal insults. Gofigure. No the league hasn't done anything about the "loophole" because technically he did nothing wrong and it didn't break any rules of the current CBA. While plenty of fans of the opposition didn't like what he did, I don't believe the NHL is going to make any revisions at least this summer to the current CBA. The same currently applies to the rental/sign back situation. TBH, if this one is addressed at all I'd be willing to bet it won't be until the first one you mentioned is remedied. However, I would like to see a one year minimum instituted if a rental player is moved.

Fair enough.

TBH, I'm trying to have a civil conversation with you, but if you're going to keep going off I'm not gonna bother. You made a comment earlier to me and ever since then you've been the one that has resorted to personal insults, not me. So lets let that go. Don't think because I don't live in Illinois or Chicago for that matter that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to their fans. I fully understand how big of assholes their fans can be and are on a consistent basis. Being from Green Bay and a huge Packers fan we have our occasional Bears fans and most of them are jackasses. To top it off, I try to make it every single Wings game at the United Center every single season, so I know full well how they act and how they treat opposing teams fans (especially Wings fans). That being said what do you expect? The Wings/Hawks rivalry from the past was so heated and the Hawks fans obviously can't stand seeing the success this Wings franchise has had for the past 15+ years. They're frustrated and bitter, no different than I'm sure Wings fans would be if the situation were reversed all this time. As I said earlier, the whole "Detroit Sucks" comment is more good-natured ribbing than anything else. It's not meant as a personal insult or a shot at Detroit. TBH, I think you're just taking it way too seriously. I understand that you take flak for living where you do, but I'm sure all 3 of the Blackhawks fans in Detroit take similar abuse. Bottom line, I understand your frustration but I just think its ill-directed. This is nothing more than a public official showing his pride for his hometown team.