NeverForgetMac25

The highest number I heard being kicked around was $58.8 million. This is great news!

Great news if you're a Red Wings fan....heart-breaking for the lone Thrashers fan! Hopefully they'll be able to re-sign Lilja for around a cool million.

I agree that Boll is and should be in your second tier. Like your bolded word said, "had." The Wings are solid in the face-off circle even with the down season last year, and both Helm and Abby should improve in that regard. They're both hard skaters, but have far more potential to score than Boll does. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but aside from fighting I don't see what he could possibly bring to this team that they don't already have. I'd rather a guy like Asham be signed if were gonna go that route.

I'm fairly confident the two are not mutually exclusive.

14, actually.

The Wings and Blackhawks have played each other the last game of the season every year since 06/07. They typically play a home-and-home to conclude the regular season, but not every year.

Asham I'll give you, but Boll is not in the same category given he likely won't chip in with offense. While Drake's production greatly dropped off the final two years of his career, the rest of it he pitched in offensively like Asham does. Boll doesn't help this team any more than Downey or May did.

Exactly! I'd be more than willing to lose a guy like Miller and likely another if it meant adding a Drake-type of player to a multi-year deal. Someone that's in your face and goes to the corners, is tough and will also drop 'em, but can also play the game and chip in offensively from time to time. That's the type of guy this team could use!

That's pretty much exactly how I took it too. Holland has made this type of comment before during past off-season's and it seems to be his way of getting out of bringing in a player of that style. Bottom line, the Wings don't need another May/Downey. Unless Kenny can bring in a Drake-type of player, I hope he forgets the whole thing. Sidenote: Terrifying

Keep in mind he'll likely pull a Dom and play for those teams after his NHL career is no longer viable. I'd have zero problem with that.

On top of that, I wonder how many of the 15 that finished ahead of him were young talent not making their real-dollar value yet. Which site did you use to generate those stats?

No doubt putting context to statistics is equally important especially in salary negotiations, but to think Kenny who's considered the top GM in hockey hasn't done that is quite far-fetched. It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree because neither of us seem to be conceding. What I will continue to say, which I know you don't want to acknowledge (not meant as a shot at you) is that I see only upside in Bert this year given the situation the team is in, especially if the injury bug comes back to bite them. You talk about only so many players being able to play alongside Z and Dats (which is a fair analysis) and I say Bert's ability even at this stage of his career exceeds most (if not all) teams' third lines, which means he should shine alongside the Wings' 3rd line. Again, agree to disagree. I think given a year in the system, understanding his role and the need for depth given another injury bug hits poses a need for a player like Bert at the price tag they got him for. So again, agree to disagree. I also believe given Kenny's stance the past few years at the deadline, that the Wings probably won't make a huge move regardless if Bert had been retained. I'm not saying that its right or that I agree with it, but it's something that can't be ignored. On top of that, you/we have no idea how the deadline is going to look and where the prices are going to be. Last year they were insanely high, hence the lack of movement. So while it obviously would be nice to add someone of Semin's calibre come TD-Day one really can't bank on it especially given the talent pool and the types of players in GR, not to mention the lack of appeal of Detroit's normally late round picks. Do I think the Wings would make the playoffs without Bert: absolutely. Do I think it would be wonderful to add a player of Semin's quality at the trade deadline: without a doubt. Is it realistic: I don't believe so. Do I see the merit in adding solid depth that can step up and add scoring if/when the team is injured *throughout the entire 82 game season:* Without question! Attention Buppy: See above

While one could make the argument that Bert's playoff numbers were inflated by Franzen's beastly game, the same could be said going the other way, for most players, on every team. Why is it that we can rip certain players for "how" they got their points, but not others. The bottom line is the puck ended up in the back of the net, and plenty of players from top to bottom have been beneficiaries of what some would consider padded numbers. Hell, look at how many EN goals Z gets. I don't know why you keep saying no one has an answer for you regarding the questions you posed because I responded to quite a few of them, as have others. Bert's played the minutes he has because of the overwhelming injury bug that hit Detroit this season. Couple that with the fact that those guys were playing with half the Grand Rapids roster and its reason enough as to why everyone's numbers were down this season. Next year the Wings will have Bert in his second full season and much more familiar with their system. He's proven he can stay healthy and his confidence should be higher than it has been in years. He'll be playing a more balanced role on the team and is going to be able to put the puck in the net both on the second or third line given the roster stays healthy. For his *ability* and all the aforementioned there's no reason Bert can't duplicate and improve on last season and that would make his $1.9375 million cap hit beyond worth it in comparison to other players around the league making the same. Again, Nystrom can still be had for the bottom 6 if Kenny truly believes he'll benefit this club. I tend to agree that the Wings would benefit from the Drake-type player Kenny promised us but I'm not about to throw Bert under the bus, as if seemingly blaming him for now not having the room to add one of those types. It's not about being supportive, rather its about being realistic. I'm most certainly not playing the role of "Rawh-Rawh Red Wings" but I do see the merit in bringing in a player of Bert's talent for the price they got him for. There's plenty of members here on LGW that simply don't have a grasp of reality, what a player actually costs, or the difference between making deals in the real NHL and those on NHL2010. Sidenote: I've enjoyed our debate/discussion.

Does anyone else have the craziest sense of Deja vu? I swear I read this exact thread with the same first 3-4 posts a couple weeks ago. Not a joke....seriously asking?

You live within the means available to you and who's to say he didn't do the same? As I said, that $43 million could've just as easily been half his money that he was banking for his retirement. Can you (or anyone) honestly say they bank/invest half their salary for the future? I can honestly say I bank/invest around 20% on top of our 401(k)'s which is likely around 20-30% less than what Sergei was putting away.

And for the most part (let it be known) nor am I. The thing is though, he may have been living on what he had made and was banking on the $43 million to be his investment future. When that nest egg went away and given the lifestyle he was living, its a recipe for what's happened.

I'm fairly confident you could say this about every deal signed in the history of sports.

Have you not heard about what *actually* happened to his finances? Fedorov Sues Ex-Business Partner for $43 million in Losses

Please! I state my opinion for *and* against all the time on these boards. Don't insinuate something you have no clue about. Besides, I completely agree that Williams was a boneheaded signing. I hated that one from the moment it was announced. His size is more than relevant because Bert constantly played in front of the net last season. While he's not as physical along the boards, he's extremely difficult to move in front of the goal. That's why his size is an attribute. I love how people on this site use others players as reasons for why a player is "good" or not yet don't recognize when the favor is returned to practically every other player. The fact of the matter is that points were scored, Bert has now been in the system for a full year, and has shown he's healthy. As much as you and others like to claim that he won't get as much PT now that the team is healthy and has a better roster, he'll also be playing alongside better line-mates which should only increase his production, *especially* if he's on the third line playing against others teams' thirds.

The point you continue to miss is that Bert is not a mediocre scorer for his price tag. Yes, his scoring isn't what it once was, but his production is worth well more than his tag. The players you mentioned aren't in the same boat. Bert is not a first-rate player, but he's not a third-rate player either. As far as adding a better player at the deadline, adding a player in what would've been that pro-rated price range could just as likely cost too much in regards to prospects/picks. While GR isn't bone-dry, its most certainly not abundant with the type of talent teams are calling Kenny and inquiring about. The Wings draft players for *their* system, which happens to be quite different than most teams. The bottom line is re-signing Bert was the safe bet, because we could end up with nothing if prices are too high on trade deadline day. Then complain about Holland, not Bert. Did you ever stop to think that Bert being willing to "play for less" was that instead of taking a $2.5 million cap-hit like most players of his ability and size he took $1.9375 million instead?

So sorry this is just being posted now. To be completely honest, with our little one now 6 weeks old and everything that comes with it...the picks game simply slipped my mind. Before I get into the standings, please use this thread to post any/all suggestions for next years game. If you liked the format as is, please let me know...and if the majority agrees, the game will remain unchanged. Finally, thanks for playing everyone and congrats to Batigol2k for winning the 2010 title! Rank, Player, Mid-Round Score 1 Batigol2k 96 2 Zohan Franzen 95 3 sibiriak 93 4 STICK 86 4 mindfly 86 6 marcaractac 83 7 Skiminok 78 8 SeeinRed 77 9 Aussie_Wing 76 9 Hockey13Playa 76 11 TheDetroitRedWings 75 12 edicius 73 13 germanwing 72 14 *** CaliWingsNut 70 15 Swayze 69 16 P. Marlowe 65 16 Greatness=PavelDatsyuk 65 18 NeverForgetmac25 63 18 Vladifan 63 18 dat's sick 63 21 55fan 61 21 McCartyFanForLife 61 23 wingsgirl001 60 23 zombi 60 23 Third Man In 60 26 wmubronco420 58 26 Real1 58 28 crotty99 56 29 Lidstrom for life 54 29 Zeowingsfan 54 31 bellarina 53 31 -=Red_Force=- 53 33 ARice89 52 33 mule 52 33 azshark 52 33 BamaWing 52 33 stevieisthebest 52 38 Dano33 50 38 Shaman464 50 38 Stevie4Pres 50 42 F.Michael 49 43 TX Wing 48 44 pavandzforpresident 47 44 Carman 47 44 brownie 47 46 KillerB14 46 46 wingsfan_fl 46 48 aflac9262 45 49 Donohue75 44 49 UKWING 44 49 Dominator2005 44 52 Tristanium 43 53 Wings_Dynasty 42 53 ddygu 42 53 Breadgy 42 56 Firehawk 41 56 Nightfall 41 58 Reds4Life 40 58 wiszo1mt 40 60 Hockeycrazy3033 39 61 zetterisbetter 38 61 CanadaBoy 38 63 Jon22 37 63 Superman54 37 64 anthonyn66 36 64 ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24 36 64 Lidstromboli 36 64 *** Namingway 36 69 russianswede919293 35 69 Bry-O 35 69 Wingsequallife13 35 72 Detroit # 1 Fan 34 72 redwings2002 34 74 Buppy 33 74 kook_10 33 74 Gordie Howe hat trick 33 74 Russian Houdini 33 74 T-Ruff 33 79 lookalive07 32 79 WingsallTheway 32 79 8 Legged RedWing 32 79 kylee 32 79 MCleveland89 32 79 shaeb30 32 85 Xitium 31 85 The Nephilim 31 85 GoWings1905 31 85 matt198913 31 85 Chunkylover 31 85 FinWing 31 85 PDX Wingman 31 92 scotvm 30 92 cupcrazy 30 92 hooon 30 92 redwingcapt 30 92 Yzerman191 30 97 maddog66 29 98 Howard He Do It?! 28 98 Echolalia 28 98 Norwegian Wing 28 101 DirtyD 27 101 Hockeymom1960 27 103 Canadian_Yzerman_Fan 25 103 Uncle Danny 25 103 OldMan333 25 103 Casey 25 103 paul19010 25 108 3chrisosgood0 24 109 HD30 23 110 Icesurfer 20 110 RedWingAbner 20 112 interminded 18 113 funguy21 16 114 Jericho613 15 115 clutchngrab 14 115 MidMichSteve 14 117 wingnut40 13 118 Klunzo 12 119 chuklz 10 119 redhot 10 121 mmamolo 0 121 redwings1926 0 121 Shanahanman 0 121 magicaldatsyuk 0

ConkBlock has one more year left on his deal with STL. It's Mason who's contract is up.

There's still room to bring in a physical 4th line player. Bert's cap hit didn't take that away. Not to mention the fact that - Winchester: Career High 21 points...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi. - Pyatt: 23 points last season and 19 the one before...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi. - Asham: Hasn't scored more than 24 points in the past 7 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi. - Malhotra: Has never scored more than 35 points his entire career...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi. - Miller: Completely different type of player (who Kenny still could re-sign anyway).....meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi. - Comrie: Hasn't played more than 43 games per season the past 3 years and only once in the past 6 years has he played more than that. Now he's a year older and more brittle. - Higgins: Currently earns $2.25 million *per* and hasn't played a full season the past 3 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi. - Tanguay: Cap hit of $2.5 million...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi. ...and why is it Bert's responsibility to be a "value" contract?

Sidenote: A big thanks goes out to Aussie_Wing and Dan Bylsma for picking up the slack during the second round when I was unavailable. Cheers, you guys! Thanks! Thank you!

I agree with most....there just isn't room for him on this current team given the players that should/need to be re-signed. I appreciate everything he did for us and nothing but the best of luck to you, Malts!