TheBadOne

I'm gonna get a cheer going... Let's Go Red Wings

CLEARY SCORES!

Unsportsmanlike Conduct.... pssshh.

Calm down, it's early in the first. Hank hasn't turned the magic button on yet. There needs to be a fight!!!

When he was traded to LA, they urged him to go to the traditional mask. However, we all saw how he performed with the new mask on, so they said "Alright, wear the old one!" He did, and as it turns out the mask wasn't his problem.

Well, I dunno how Bert ended up with a skull on his (are you sure it's not the Mission logo, it looks scary as it is) but the helmet Ozzie uses is the same one I use: A Cooper SK2000 helmet with a Cooper (or Bauer, depending when you go it) HM30 cage. It's plastic and therefore any paint designs are liable to smear, especially if he takes a shot to the noggin (I've had to re-paint mine twice already because ithe replacement side plates were a different color than the helmet itself, and its due for another painting.) By comparison, Hasek's $2000 helmet is made of the same kevlar/fiberglass composites most goalie masks are made of, therefore can be painted without problem. So that leaves Hasek, Ozzy, and Cloutier as the sole helmet/cage combo goalies left. Tim Thomas and Tobias Stephan have masks that have a cage, but the helmet they use has a backplate like the modern goalie mask instead of being enclosed. (Yes, I'm a nerd.)

Jesus Christ, Downey gets thrown on waivers and now we start picking apart every miniscule detail about the team. I'm glad everyone's passionate about this, but there's a few things I'd like to point out. - Detroit's one of the few teams in the league who don't carry emphasis on having an enforcer. The guy they signed for that role who's in his early thirties and, aside from that knockout to Boulerice, hasn't had what many consider to be a winning fight record. Is he an upgrade over Norton? Yes. But are the other teams going to waive their 20-something enforcer who outsizes Downey so they can claim him from Detroit? No. Detroit may as well waive him now, since it's early in the season, so that if the time comes to send him to GR later on, they don't risk losing him if in the event that 30 days from now, another team's enforcer is on the IR and they want a toughguy. Downey understands this, and has been nothing but classy because of it. I'm glad he wasn't claimed and I hope that he remains in the organization for as long as possible. - For the "is toughness essential to winning" debate, I've said it once and I'll say it again, yes, yes, yes it does. Look at the final four teams in the '07 playoffs. Detroit was the only one that didn't carry and emphasis on having a fighter or having that element built into their team and they were eliminated by the Ducks, who even with Parros in the press box, still had O'Donnell, Moen, and Thornton running around to take care of the tough stuff. They went on to face the winners of the Ottawa - Buffalo series. Did those two teams emphasize on toughtness? That said about toughness being essential to winning, The 96-97 Red Wings would have wiped their ass with the 06-07 Ducks, and that's a fact! - Folks, do you think that Zetterberg is sitting around his house calling Ellis useless because Downey was waived? No. Do you think Datsyuk is telling his relatives how much of a fatass Grigorenko is for taking a spot away from their enforcer? No. Why? Because they're a team. While it's alright to be critical of whether or not toughness doesn't take priority, or if someone's the best player for a particular spot, lets not attack the players who've either gone above and beyond their expectations and capabilities to earn an NHL roster spot or players who are viewed as essential to the future success of the organization. Yes, I hope that the Wings start taking fighting more seriously, and I hope players like Gelech, Keefe, Jarram, and Clark (or comparable players) one day pan out and make for a crushing 3rd or 4th line. Until then, we've dedicated ourselves to support an organization that hasn't missed the playoffs since our goaltending platoon consisted of Stefan, Hanlon, and St. Laurent. The front office hasn't necessarily been as fan friendly as teams in other markets, but they've consistently put perennial winners on the ice for us to cheer for despite all the obstacles in their way. I admit I'm disappointed that Grigorenko didn't take coming to North America as seriously as we hoped (coming up to training camp overweight, not learning any English whatsoever), and I'm also disappointed in Kopecky's ability to take shifts off. But I can't comprehend the mentality that allows people to attack Ellis after everything he's done for the Red Wings. Year after year after year he's worked harder and harder to go from an undrafted free agent who was playing in the ECHL to landing an NHL depth job with the most prolific team in the league after being the leader of the Griffins. I don't know about you, but that justifies respect from me. Well, here's to hoping the Wings win tonight. Go Wings.

I still love Ray Ferraro's reaction to that. "Patrik Stefan, you should be embarrased for what you've just done, that dos NOT belong in the National hockey league!"

You can tell he still has it for Colorado. As for his change of stance on Detroit, it was probably Dallas Drake fighting a visored Perry that helped him change his tune.

Yeah, I can't claim to be an official. Thanks for the heads up. I don't agree with the "third man in" rule or instigator rules. I just don't like a grossly unfair fight. For the underglove idea, It doesn't have to be as bulky as a MMA glove, but padded. I love fighting in hockey, but given the fact that the players are better conditioned and bigger nowadays, I would want to limit the amount of Fedoruk and Newbury incidents out there. Plus if that happens in tandem with dropping the instigator rule, it gives enforcers the ability to do their job and lessen the risk of injury. The wrist part comes from an idea I got watching Don Cherry's Rock Em Sock Em videos and Coaches Corner, where he shows how the old-school gloves were able to protect the hand and the wrist and reduce the risk of a broken wrist. If you're saying something to the effect of dragonskin, I'm with ya on that. Well here's how I feel about visors/mouthguards vs. a full mask. I don't feel a full mask is entirely necessary because it would deter fighting and encourage stick work. Also, getting caught with a stick on the chin is not nearly as threatening as taking a puck or stick to the eye. I look at what happened with Berard and Yzerman and think of how unfortunate it would have been if their careers would have ended on those notes. A guy gets popped in the chin during a fight, he's a little woozy, but he'll live. A guy gets hit real well in the eye, it could be the end of his career. Winnipeg would be first for me, then Quebec City, then Hamilton because of its proximity to Toronto and Buffalo. I'd probably feel different if I lived there, but they do have the Bulldogs. My wiseass rebuttal to the "To worry about player development at the point of 18-21 is waaaay to late in the game" would be "Well if Jimmy Howard were so great, how come he's in the AHL?! " My serious reply to that is that while some kids are ready for the jump like Sidney, not all are at their physical AND mental peak to be playing at the highest level. Yeah, some kid can look great showing off against a bunch of 17-21 year olds in front of 1,323 people in Plymouth. But then comes the hype about how this guy's going to be the next Wayne. Then he steps onto the ice in an arena with a 18,000 screaming fans playing against guys who've been doing this s*** for years. Is he going to perform, or is the whole situation going to be too much to deal with? Conversely, the guy goes from playing in front of 2.000 in Plymouth to playing in front of 7,000 people in Grand Rapids to playing in front of 20,000 in Detroit (once Illitch figures out lower ticket prices = fannies in seats.) In the process, he's developing with all the same faces and starts developing an approach to the game and a counter-approach to players' tendencies. He enters the league when ready and has enough experience to justify his spot on a roster. Another point to that is that the time they bide makes a young player hungry. If a kid rules at Jr. and then gets touted and thrown into the NHL, they can be like "Hey, I made it here without effort, they like me for me, right?" Then after the kid takes too many shifts off, he is either trying to find a team via tryout (Cleary) or ends up a career minor leaguer (Ference). Consequently, the kid that goes from Juniors/College/Europe to Minors ends up sick of smelling diesel fumes and eating McDonalds on game day when he starts to figure out that if he works hard enough, charter flights and chicken parmigiana awaits him, thus lighting a fire under his ass. Once that's figured out and he shows up to next season's camp 20 lbs lighter and ready for an NHL job, he's going to be groomed as a franchise player (Howard, Quincey, Ozzy, Filpulla, Hudler, and the list goes on.) To re-iterate an idea central to my practice squad suggestion, those three players would have the right to be designated to minor and recalled without having to clear waivers and could spend as much time in the minors for a "conditioning assignment" as necessary. I'll drop my suggestion of having players on entry-level contracts eligible so as to not interfere with their development, but anyone who's a Group III or VI Free Agent is someone who's days of development are likely over and should have the right to say whether or not they want to remain with one organization over the course of the season. Ideally, a player would have to agree to it in their contract, so its not like a team would just go and say "Hey, you're on our team, we're designating you for practice squad." I see it as a convenience for the team as they're able to protect parts of their roster and a convenience for the player so they don't have to end up living out of a suitcase if they don't want to due to the waiver wire. A best of 3 game series doesn't necessarily have to add a week. They can just kick out the 3 games at the 8th seed's home and resume the traditional playoff format. If players still used wooden sticks, leather helmets, and cotton for shoulder pads, I'd be all about a drastic reduction in pad size. But even with the new dimension goalie pants, goalies are reporting more bruises on their thighs. The shoulder floaters for the NHL should rightfully be reduced and have been as far as I'm to understand. I've worn the new gloves and they're just right. If you want to scale the leg pads down to 10" (like back in the day), that could work too. Otherwise, I strongly suggest they keep it as it is, in regards to both pad sizes and net size. I will say this though, Roy, and to a lesser extent Giguere, took too many liberties with their pad sizes. Phonies like that should be called out and penalized by both refs and the league. Roy's the worst when it came to that because while he always wore oversized pads, he had the AUDACITY after he retired to suggest they reduce pad sizes!!!! Why didn't he say that when he was playing for Colorado?!?!?!?!?! I sold that gear anyway because now USA Hockey's followed the NHL's lead and reduced the sizes as well. I was able to get most of my money back, but had to use it to move, so I'll be looking to get new gear come next winter/spring.

Yeah, the clear protective piece of plastic that dangles from the mask/cage

I like your ideas. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but I like your ideas. That said: - I like your divisional realignments. The league itself may have some tweaking to do, but all and all, I think its great you incorporated the classic names. - I say keep the 4th line. Two scoring lines, a checking line, and an energy line are pretty good to watch. If you overplay the star players, they're probably likely to be prone to injury. - For the playoffs, I'd like to see the 9th seed take on the 8th seed for a best of 3 miniseries to determine who gets the final playoff spot (5th vs 4th per your post.) - I'm a goalie who plays inline hockey. IMO, goalie equipment should remain status quo. The reduction in the size of blockers, catchers, and leg pads after the lockout have enabled goaltenders with athletic ability to shine, while the guys who used to just park their oversized asses in the crease are now playing somewhere in Europe. Make it any smaller and either goalie injuries will skyrocket or due to the technology needed to make efficient protective equipment smaller, only pros or the wealthy will be able to afford it. My last complete set of equipment was barely under $1000, and that was going for the most affordable equipment available! (Side note: Because I was playing inline hockey, the leg pads I got were 11" wide because they were made specifically for inline hockey. Once I got ice pads, they were 12" wide and SEVERELY affected my mobility. I'm glad the NHL reduced the pad sizes to 11", because the sizes they have now are just perfect.) In addition to your points, I have mine as well: - Fighting instigation penalties should focus more on jumping a person (e.g.: Parros jumping Hudler) as opposed to third man in (e.g.: Drake jumping in to fight Parros after laying a nasty hit on Hudler or trying to fight Hudler.) - Visors and mouthguards should be mandatory, as should be either goalie throat visors or goalie throat guards (Ozzy uses a visor, Dom uses a guard, Luongo uses neither and suffered a minor throat injury as a result.) - All players should wear a padded underglove similar to MMA fighting gloves, but with wrist protectors as well. Anyone caught altering the padding for fighting advantage would receive an automatic 20 game suspension and forfeit 20 games worth of salary. It might seem harsh, but it will also keep it fair and safe. - The original jerseys should be re-instated or the new ones should be redesigned. They can't be tied down for fights, they're leaving the players soaked, and they seem to rip easily. Is it worth them being 8% faster? I dunno. - Teams should play 6 games vs dvisional opponents (24 based on the actual conference alignment), 4 against conference opponents (40 games) and 15 games vs opponents in the different conference, 20 if a division in one conference has a "home and home" system with a division in the rival conference. (I hope it goes through at the board meeting.) - Winnipeg would get a team if another one is placed in Vegas, not considering whether or not Nashville moves to KC. - No touch icing would be implemented. - Any player under 21 who doesn't perform to certain standards in junior, college, minor league, or European play would be ineligible to play in the NHL, with the standards agreed upon by the governing bodies. I say this because I don't want to see players fall victim of improper development, which could affect their careers for a lifetime. Not all people are meant to stay in junior (like Sidney Crosby) but not all should be uprooted as soon as they're drafted (like Malhotra) because their team sucks. Draft age would remain 18. An alternative to this would be to make a player play one full season in the AHL before being able to play in the NHL. - In addition to having 3 healthy scratches, 3 additional players can be designated for "practice squad" and would be exempt from waivers if designated to the minors for assignment. Players would have to have a practice squad clause in their existing contract in order to be assigned to the practice squad and would allow them to be in the NHL at an AHL salary (except if they're designated for the active roster.) Ideally, only players on an entry-level contract, Group VI free agents, or any Group III free agent on a two-way deal would be eligible to opt into the clause. A player like Meech would be ineligible because he's Group II, nor would Dan Cloutier because he's on a one-way deal, but a guy like Matt Ellis would be able to opt into it and not worry about having to relocate due to being claimed on waivers. The maximum amount of players designated between scratches and the practice squad would be 5 skaters and a goalie. There's probably more, but I can't think of it right now because I'm working.

True. I only say that though because EVERY interview I've seen him give lately, he seems to casually mention the two months he spent wearing the Winged Wheel. Even if he is happy in Anaheim, he still seems to have a lot of respect for the Wings and the front office. If there's one thing I've learned about the Wings, its that you can always come home (like Ozzy, Johnson, Drake, and Hasek.) Maybe he wants to keep the bridges there for the future...

Elbows didn't do much in the game and if anything, had officiating working against him tonight (Kronner interfered with him and the refs let it go.) Bert, on the other hand, had a 2 point game. As much as he probably likes Anaheim, I bet he cries at night that he's not on the Wings anymore.

What I'm going to say here is going to piss people off: Anaheim has a great team and they deserved to win the Cup last year. I say this because while I'm a Wings fan, my fandom doesn't blind me to what I feel makes a good hockey team, nor does it change the way I feel the game should be played. But while I respect the other 19 guys on the bench (like when McDonald boarded Lilja, he at least had the decency to apologize and not fight the refs about it, that's classy and shows good sportsmanship), any possible respect I had for Perry fell out the window at that point. To echo Ray Ferraro's words about Patrik Stefan with sentiment of my own: Corey Perry, you should be embarrased and ashamed of yourself; that type of cowardice does NOT belong in the National Hockey League!

If you wanna go off tough-guy fighter names, I suggest Drake The Snake! Otherwise, Dallas is simply cool enough

If anyone cares, Phoenix did release their official opening night roster today: Vrbata - Kapanen - Doan Carcillo - Reinprect - York Winnik - Hanzal - Weller Tjarnqvist - Mueller - Zigomanis Sjostrom will sit, Gratton is injured. JovoCop - Michalek Morris - Ballard Boynton - Jones Tellqvist Auld Aebischer will enjoy the game with some popcorn and soda while listening to Dave Strader (!!!!) call the game. Personally, I don't like that they took Hanzal off the second unit and put Reinprecht there instead, but all and all, I'm glad they turned out the way they did. That's my perspective on it.

Oh I give that one a thumbs up, sir.

Its funny, I never thought I'd follow another team aside from the Wings. Yet after seeing the Coyotes determination to better themselves in addition to how well they treat their fans, I have to say that I respect them enough now to root for them. If either the Wings or Coyotes play against any of the other 28 teams in the league, I'd pull for them. When they face each other, however, I just hope to see a hell of a hockey game. I'm always going to be a Wings fan, but the Coyotes have a lot of youth and like 4-5 guys on their roster who are capable of fighting! The one thing that gets me is how they keep the prices for the Wings games higher than any of the other ticket prices, including tickets to see the Ducks. How the hell are you going to better yourself in the league when your front office concedes that there's a team that's better than you? I don't understand that logic, so I think I'll call their front office to complain (no s***, the team president here takes phone calls.) As for them relocating, I don't see that happening and I hope it doesn't. Major league hockey hasn't been here for long (11 years), but man alive is the game starting to blossom out here. The area now has ice and roller rinks to play at, which the locals are starting to embrace, as well as an expanding growth in hockey programs and shops. Many liken the experience of a hockey game like going to a rock concert, so if the Yotes can put a playoff-contending team on ice, I think you'd see more fannies in the seats.

I agree with you 154%

Well, I live in Phoenix and have been following the Coyotes since I've gotten here. That said, they weent 3-2-3 in the pre-season, which was good enough to be tied for 6th in the conference. There's a few players missing from your list, as well as those who've had a good camp and have convinced me the Coyotes will show improvement from last season. That said, here's the players that made the team and where I'd like to see them at (and my justifcations as to why): First Line: York-Kapanen-Doan - York didn't manage to score any goals during the preseason. He did, however, have 4 assists in 5 games and come out +3. It's also worth noting that he developed better chemistry with the team as the pre-season progressed. - For being subjected to 3rd line minutes, Kapanen made the best of his camp and preseason. He put up 4 points in 4 games (1-3) and held for an even plus/minus. - Doan was the only player on the Coyotes team during the preseason that exceeded a point per game, putting up 5 points in 4 games with a +1. Second Line: Carcillo-Hanzal-Vrbata - Martin Hanzal, a 20 year old who's definitely got size, had an impressive camp, posted 6 pts in 7 games (3-3) while having an even plus/minus. - Vrbata was the second leading scorer for the Blackhawks last year and has every indication of keeping up the trend, posting 5 points in 6 games. However, his -3 could stand to be improved. - Carcillo, while a rookie, has a hard-nose for the net and seems to find anyway possible to score. He very well could be the breakout player of the year. He was -2, but put up 5 points in 6 games in addition to two fighting majors. He's going to emerge in the mold of a Shanahan, Avery, or Tucker. Should be entertaining. (this line in particular showed a great deal of energy during the pre-season.) Third Line: Reinprecht - Tjarnqvist - Sjostrom - Reinprecht was invisible during the preseason and couldn't seemingly contribute offensively or defensively. They'll probably put him on the first line in place of Kapanen, whether or not he should rightfully be there is another story. - Tjarnqvist didn't put up electrifying numbers, but he did maintain a postive plus/minus. - Same goes for Sjostrom, and he's a relatively young player. Fourth Line: Gratton - Zigomanis - Weller - Gratton won't be on the ice opening night because his hands are both in casts. However, Gretzky really likes the guy's role as the team enforcer. He can be interchanged in and out of the lineup, but has his spot on the 4th unit to make sure no one else is abused. He had two fighting majors in one game before breaking his hand. - Zigomanis is a decent 4th liner and an excellent penalty killer for the Coyotes. He ended the preseason with an even plus/minus. - Weller is also not one likely to be on the ice opening night. He has been a career minor-leaguer, but could be a suitable backup to Gratton. He had two fighting majors in the preseason and finished the preseason +2. Forward Reserves: Winnik will likely be on the 4th line during opening night. He was a 9th rounder that's fitting the mold of a role player at the highest level. With his big body, they hope he can develop other tools at the NHL level. I purposely omitted Mueller from this list. Based on what I've seen, he isn't ready to compete at the NHL level. He has all the physical tools, but I doubt he has the mental maturity for it. What I'd like to see is for him to take the place of Gratton on the 4th line until he returns from injuries, and then go to junior until their season is over. I'd like to see him fight for a top-6 position next season than for Gretzky to continue to experiment with him and hinder his development. As for Defense: First Line: Jovanovski - Michalek - JovoCop had a decent preseason. He wasn't the most prolific defenseman, but kept his plus/minus in positive terrirotry. A healthy JovoCop will mean a better season for the Desert Dogs. - Michalek is not a top 4 in his prime, but is young and still getting his game together. JovoCop can act as an efficient mentor to him and can look to make him improve. Second Line: Morris - Ballard - Morris was the most prolific defenseman in terms of points, but his -5 is frightening for a defenseman. He needs to work on his defensive abilities in addition to his offensive prowess. - Ballard is a great defenseman who didn't have a spectacular camp. He isn't proven, but the future is bright for him. Third Line: Boynton - Jones - Boynton had a respectable camp as a defensive defenseman. He also brings an element of toughness to the squad as well. - Jones is an adequate 6th defenseman, nothing more, nothing less. Since the Coyotes are only carrying 6 defensemen, I'll stop there. Goaltenders: Starter: Tellqvist Backup: Auld Guy in press box waiting for a trade: Aebischer - Tellqvist commanded a respectable 2.76 GAA and a .905 save percentage while being able to lead the team to victory. The team plays well in front of him. - The numbers were deceiving for Auld. Though he had the best GAA and save percentage of any other goalie competing for an NHL job (1.9 and .918, respectively) he went 0-1-2. His rebounds were his biggest problem and the team didn't necessarily prepare to have to compensate for them. If he works on that, he could take the starting job away from Tellqvist. - While the team won a game with Aebischer in net, his .86 save percentage and 3.21 GAA is inexcusable for an NHL goaltender. He was the weakest goaltender of the camp and isn't showing anyone that he's the goalie he used to be in Colorado, pre-lockout. In terms of who they face, I'm really only concerned with Anaheim and San Jose. L.A. looks a lot better than they did last year, but may still face consistency issues, while Dallas is appearing to be a fading team to me (and most likely the first team Phoenix will supplant in their rise in the rankings.) Anaheim is downgraded from last year, but still has a great line up, while SJ is picked by many to go all the way this year. They were able to beat Anaheim in pre-season action, but may not be able to have that same intensity all the way through the regular season. The secret in that lies in how many fighters they can dress against Anaheim. San Jose however, they're just going to have to be very cunning. Once more of their prospects pan out, I think the Coyotes can start entertaining the idea of entering the playoffs. It's a longshot for them to even get the 8th seed this season, but if they manage to pull it off, I can't say I'd be entirely surprised. They're starting to look like the Penguins of the West to me, and I think that's how things are going to end up for them.

I have no complaints. Go Pavel!

Hey, he could be lazy AND sucking Seriously though, the Wings have a pretty complete hockey club, and I'm personally hard-pressed to find anyone else in the organization who's better for that role. They have their needs addressed in the top 6 and everywhere else, they may as well have a guy who's work ethic is not only through the roof to begin with, but is also a positive influence on his teammates. Yes, goals, assists, and saves win hockey games, but that means nothing if the right building blocks aren't in place. It wasn't like Grigs was in superb conditioning and in all-star form yet ended up sent down so a role player could have a roster spot. If the guys on the final roster can't work together to get the W, I see that as a problem with the 12 forwards put on the ice as opposed to the one who's there for support should anything go down. There's a reason the organization's high on this guy. Considering how successful the Wings have been in spite of everything and everyone in their way, I'll have faith in their decision to award Ellis an NHL roster spot.

I saw the roster and smiled. For Downey, I'm glad he'll be around at the beginning of the season, because thats typically when fighting is at its highest. As Grigs is able to condition and prepare for the NHL, he can provide some needed defense for the guys until Grigs is ready for the up-tempo NHL game. I hope Grigs gets into a few fights in the minors as well, so that way he has that dimension going for him when he comes to the big club. As for Ellis, I don't typically swear on these boards, but the opinion that he is worthless is complete and utter bulls***. The guy's managed to develop himself beyond expectations year after year, improving every facet of his game as requested by the organization. The reason he's on the team is because he's a essential team player. I remember last year when Dom was in a slump (or coming off an injury, I forget), he called on Ellis to practice with him one-on-one to help him get his game back. Matt did, and as a result, Dom got his game back. What people see with Ellis isn't going to be measured on the stats sheet or observed by the general public. However, the 22 other guys in the dressing room are going to love having a player around who's willing to do what he can to make the team better, even if it means putting in extra time at practices and whatnot to make certain that the team is as fired up and ready as possible. And considering the scoring potential of the other 12 forwards we have, he'll fill in nicely on a 4th line if need be. Bottom line, you may be able to ask for a better player, but you couldn't ask for a better teammate. Congratulations to Ellis and Downey for making the cut. Go Wings!

The reason I disagree with that is becuase Grigorenko's supposed to be a top-6 kinda guy and if he's not going to be working on scoring in the NHL, he can at least do that in the AHL. Ellis may not be putting up huge numbers, but he'd be a solid 4th liner on a team full of scoring potential (Cleary, Filp, and Drapes could look good on some other team's second line.) Grigs is still a semi-elite prospect, whereas Ellis's development at a minor level isn't as crucial, so I say let Ellis stay as the 13th forward and let Grigs get adjusted to the NA game at a minor league level. If Downey isn't signed and Hartigan is sent to the minors (which is most likely because he's most likely to clear waivers), then Grigs can get the call up before November. I anticipate we'll start seeing injuries by then, anyway. Regarding the defensemen, I don't see what Sopel's done thus far to justify making the Wings roster. Let them carry 7 d-men with Meech being the 7th guy.