NomadFromKazoo

Even though I'm arguing Howard was the right call, I have to admit there's a voice in the back of my head that Ozzie's done it before and his best playoffs typically came in years he wasn't the clear #1 goalie. It's certainly possible that Ozzie getting hot could have happened and carried us to a Cup. But the odds seemed so long and if it doesn't happen then we still have our #1 up and coming goalie with no playoff experience. The price to find out if Ozzie could turn it on again at the age he's at was just too high. But one does have to wonder, just a bit...

What if Ozzie lost it? What if Ozzie became injured? What if Ozzie began to noticeably decline do to age? I know you're saying your not Monday morning quarterbacking, but you really are and in a case that it was the judgment of our head coach as the best option and worked out. Howard is clearly not the reason we didn't go past the second round and we have no reason to believe Ozzie would have done any better.

First ballot absolutely. But 2/2 times he had a chance to leave he signed with someone else. The first he demanded we not match it and the second he left for LESS money. The message was clear. I personally don't think we should retire numbers of players who don't want to be here and tell us that at every chance no matter how good they are. Then again I'm not going to set myself on fire in protest if we do retire his number. But my vote is an unequivocal, "No."

Lidstrom turns into the next Cheli and plays another 10 years.

What you say is reasonable. You never know what'll happen, you have to roll the dice that whatever you do works out better then what could happen in other scenarios. But the odds getting a player like him helping us over keeping options open to see what happens seems worth it to me. We've picked up guys at the trade deadline who stayed, but we've picked up guys like Clark who left anyway. Modano's a good player. I'm with you in wanting Modano, but I agree this is a lot better argument then that Helm &/or Abby are going to be mad at us for signing him.

Especially playing on our third line where he's going to not have to play quite as much but is going to be playing other teams lesser defensemen but with some pretty talented wings. We could use some legit scoring on our deeper lines, I don't see how anyone could say we shouldn't be pursuing that with an opportunity like this.

He did sort of rub our noses in it. Don't get me wrong, he had every right to leave. But we had every right to tell him how we feel about his insulting us as having insulted his manhood with the paltry $10 mil a year offer and then leaving for less money as well.

I don't see Holland as having ever signed a player for ticket sales, other then selling tickets by winning. So there is no reason to believe Holland is doing this for any reason but that his assessment is like a lot of us who think signing Modano for 1.25 mil would be a coup. Meatloaf's sequel song? You want me, you're gold fish, you drive a panda, ... but one out of 28 aint bad...

Is that all I did? How does going after the top American goal scorer who while not being peak of his career is still very good exactly invalidate any of that or that they are the future of those roles on our team? My point was that he's very good today as an NHL player, that is the standard and not how good he is compared to the peak of his own career. My point was entirely about Mike Modano today. He's very good.

I think your comparison of Kariya to Hudler's a better one then Cleary anyway as their value is more similar. For one year I'd take Kariya but for their ages I'd take Hudler. I don't see Cleary as a direct comparison.

Agreed. The Wings should never make any decision to not pursue the best players because they're afraid someone would be offended. Though I don't believe they ever do, it's just message board fodder to worry and not an NHL reality. Any team that does that is going to suck and we don't suck.

I think the contention is that they are going to hold it against us and leave later. I totally do not agree with that and as I said if they did I want them gone now because they aren't NHL mind even if they are NHL skill. But just clarifying the point. Where do you get that Kenny thinks he's "filling a hole" at all? I think Modano's just a chance to pick up a primo player for personal reasons (Detroit connection) that teams don't normally get. I've never once heard anyone say it's a "hole."

How does going after the top American goal scorer who while not being peak of his career is still very good exactly invalidate any of that or that they are the future of those roles on our team?

Well put. Also, giving Howard the experience he had last year for the future was priceless and giving Ozzie that would have been irrelevant unless we won Cup. Winning the Cup would have been the ONLY scenario that would have better then what happened. With the injuries and last two Junes I'd rather lose when we did then go to late May or June again in a row without a cup. This way Howie got the season and two playoff rounds of experience and the team still got an extra month of summer. I just didn't see it as a Cup year. But sure, if Ozzie would have won the Cup I'd have preferred that. But that just seems like a stretch given where we were last year and to your point we'll never know.

It's zero concern. There is no reason they should feel that way at all and there is zero reason to think they do and if they did we want them to leave because they would never make it in the NHL much less an ultra competitive team like the Red Wings roster.

My view exactly. He sucked when he was here. Everyone skated circles around him. Goalies could have skated circles around him. Better to try to forget he was ever here then remember as you aptly phrased it, "that disaster."

This is exactly why he left. I loved him as a Wing, but with the 8 year old way he left didn't look back. He wanted out, he got out. Goodbye. But he was a great Wing when he was here even though he didn't want to be because he wanted the spotlight to be his.

I meant we don't need to chose which one we want on the team, we get both. But sure, their defensive ability is going to be a factor with everything else whether they are together or separate.

That's actually a pretty good solution. Though I'm glad we got ours in before they do it. But 17 years was to the point of absurd. 1-800-BiteMe. Bettman's an imbecile who doesn't care. He's not going to get a clue just because someone points out something obvious to him. He's the worst commissioner of any sport I've ever seen.

I like that Howard got so much playing time this year and we went the distance in the playoffs with him in goal. Realistically with all things considered we had a rough year and now Howard is a lot more prepared to take it another notch up next year. With the endless injuries and two straight seasons ending in June, I felt all along it wasn't our year. Between Howard, the late season rally, continuing our 100 point streak and going to the second round I think it ended up being salvaged as a decent year. And I love that even though we lost to the Sharks in 5, we outscored them in the series. Now this year we go back for another Cup!

Isn't it great we don't need to choose?

That one is bizarre. I meant to make a mistake, but I didn't, so we need the mistake to stand...

Like others, I think you nailed it. Even if he's already decided in his mind to sign with us, it's the off season, why rush it now? The only ones that would help are us, the Wings junkies who follow every move the team even in the off season. Sure, I'd love him to sign now and know we have him for the season. But realistically I just don't see any reason from his perspective he would and I'll be just as happy on opening day whether he signs now or in September.

I'm with you. I seriously doubt there is any "conspiracy," which would need to be a spoken agreement. But I do think it's more then incompetence. Like in the Wings final against the Pens. I seriously doubt anyone told the officials to help the Pens, but there were endless reasons for the officials to know the league wanted the Pens to win and created a mindset to see things in that perspective. I'm even sure if you hooked them up to a lie detector they would all pass the test they believe they were fair. The human mind has an incredible ability to see things in a way that is favorable to ourselves as a bias. I think the NHL is more biased then the other leagues in the league wanting to select winners and that is clear to the officials. Then again, they are also incompetent. :0)

If we were talking multi million dollar deals then I'd agree with you, but of course we'd sign those guys if they'd sign for what we can afford, which is very little (by pro athlete standards). I think the question is more why anyone thinks they would sign for that.