Probert 5 For Fighting

I'm one of the least biased Wings fan here, and I'm sorry, but I have to call out your claim that Crosby has an equal or better shot than Zetterberg. It's simply not true. And as for being stronger on his feet and tougher with the puck....c'mon. Nobody protects the puck and maneuvers through traffic like Zetterberg or Datsyuk.

1. Zetterberg(And no, he didn't "lead" us to anything, nor did Crosby "not lead" Pitt to anything. It's a damn team game, stop trying to make the argument so narrow-minded) 2. Ovechkin 3. Crosby 4. Datsyuk 5. Malkin 6. Lecavlier 7. Iginla 8. Kovalchuk 9. Heatley 10. Getzlaf I'm not a fan of "ranking" players or any of that arbitrary stuff, so there's just a rough list.

If this ridiculous rumor is to be credited, you'd have to think they're aiming higher than Camilleri with "the player." Jack Johnson or Dustin Brown or something.

They'd be just like Pitt two years ago: Plenty of offense with a young defense and crappy goaltending. Sneak into the playoffs and get spanked - which is a much better situation than finishing at the bottom of the West again. Malkin, Kopitar, Frolov, Brown, O Sullivan, Nagy, Jack MF Johnson, Visnovski...yikes.

Godawful trade, if true. An above-average NHLer and a 2nd overall pick for a 20 year old superstar nowhere near his peak? Oh boy.

I've been clear and concise. You seem to be insisting on chafing the old taint, though. Might I recommend investing in Tampax? It'll stop all the bleeding you're doing. Sure thing, "sport." Unfortunately, your preconceived implication is incorrect. So since I mentioned that there's only a few elite defensemen out there, I'm implying Pitt has little interest in bolstering its defense? f*** me in the ozarks, every team not named Detroit or Anaheim is in trouble. Let me hold your hand through this one, "kiddo.." Ryan Whitney - 1st rounder Malkin, Crosby, Stall - 1st rounders Fleury - 1st rounder Beyond the 1st round(the draft does extend beyond one round, "champ") - most of their top prospects are defensemen. There is no discernable "defense-last philosophy" on display here. Picking guys like Malkin, Crosby, and Stall were no brainers, and they nabbed a top-notch defenseman in the 1st round and beyond as well. The notion that a team loaded at forward is neglecting other aspects of their team is faulty logic. Yeah, they don't have a Lidstrom or Neidermayer, but WTF does? They have a good, young stable of defensemen - ergo, they're not as "defense-last" as you're assuming. Well damn. Why didn't you just say this right off the bat? I'd have mostly agreed with you. I'm not suggesting everything is all crabcakes and football up in Pittsburgh, but they're better off than the OP is suggesting. And the "East West mentality" is completely transparent, which was the entire point of all this.

Sadly, your reading comprehension is a bit off since I never said they'd be foolish to let go of Hossa. When did I insinuate anything close to that? The reality is, retaining Hossa is a far better business decision than going after defensemen in a weak free agency year. You seem to be implying that I pity the decisions Pittsburgh made. I'm completely baffled as to WTF you are talking about. The OP suggested Pittsburgh wasn't making the right moves by spending on money on their elite forwards. I say that's the best decision they could make. Defense last? They've picked Ryan Whitney and Kris Letang in the first round. Alex Goligoski, Brian Strait, and Carl Sneep are all great young defensemen that top their prospect list that'll move up eventually. The consequences of their actions have reaped them all the benefits short of winning the Cup - two years removed from the bottom of the league. Pittsburgh will be fine, and that's their "situation"

eva likes to make up his own facts. Excuse him. For the record, I've considered Zeta an elite player for years now and I think he's a better defender than Dats. However, I have no problem with Pavel winning it. Defensive positioning? No forward reads the backcheck better than Dats.

Schneider? Please. He's a Gonchar clone - a forward playing defense. Dude has zero awareness and backcheck ability in his own zone. The step up from Schneids to Rafalski was monumental for us this season. It speaks volumes about Pronger's abilities when he could put up 43 pts in 73 games and be considered a disappointment. He's an asshat, but he's still a fantastic player. And way better than Schneider - including last year. Not that that's going to stop you from arguing to the contrary.

What does that have to do with what the Redwings would do if they had Crosby, Malkin, Hossa and Staal all on the same team? Holland CAN sit back and focus in on Stuart with all of his key guys locked up. And please, what bonafide 2nd liner out there is going to produce more than Franzen or Flip right now? Those guys are fantastic bargains and Holland knows nobody else is worth it. Let someone else pay out the rear for 60 points from Malone. I'd rather have Hossa(who's basically a 3rd defensemen with his skill) and Malkin than Malone and Orpik. In fact, I'm pretty sure everybody on the face of the earth would rather have those two guys than Malone and Orpik. This is a decision any GM would make. Both Malone and Orpik expect to(and will be) severely overpaid. If you're going to pay someone, pay maybe the best damn player in the world(Malkin) and an all-world guy like Hossa. Who cares how much their defenders make? Gonchar, Whitney, Letang, are fine top pairing defensemen, and perhaps they'll sign a guy who will fill in like Stuart did for us. They're very young back there, hence how little their dmen are getting paid.

The point was obvious. I'm just saying, there's only one Lidstrom, one Pronger, and one Neidermayer(let's pretend Rob went away for a while). Pittsburgh has a bunch of a ridiculously young and freakishly good forwards. What, they're just going to let them walk? It is better to devote your cap to defense rather than offense, but there are no better routes for Pittsburgh to take based on what's available. Crosby, Hossa, Malkin and maybe even Staal could be considered franchise players. How can they be faulted for re-signing all of them? Sign those guys, sign Fleury, Whitney and Letang are both a ways away from demanding top dollar, mix in the role guys, and play it out. Eventually, they'll trade one of those coveted assets they have, and hopefully they'll get the chance to bow out to Detroit again in the Finals.

Yeah, and Detroit would be doing the exact same thing if they were in Pitt's situation. Detroit and Anaheim boast the 3 best defensemen in the league. It's a crazy small sample size. No other teams have that luxury. There is no East vs West mentality. It's a "wow, Detroit and Anaheim are really freaking good and have an unfair advantage on the backend" mentality. But since we seem to be heading towards criticizing Pitt's defense, cut them some slack. Both Whitney and Letang(who we never got to see due to injury) are fantastic young defensemen whom they can build around in the coming years.

Because..he..got..the...bounces? The lucky breaks(like the puck Stuart foolishly passed to Zetterberg's foot)? The plays you need to make when the opportunity presents itself? Plays that didn't present themselves to Malkin? Boom! That settles it! He was tired, and everybody else was fresh as can be waiting for 10 more games to start. Puuuuuuhlleeeeezzzzeee. The problem is your points seem to be completely void of rationality or substance and full of unprovable nuances and ridiculously small sample sizes.

I love your tenacity arguing for the unprovable. Here's something that is provable: Kris Draper's line completely shut down Malkin in the Finals. Detroit's defense was 100x better than Philly's, New York's or Ottawa's. It wasn't because Malkin was in a "pressure" situation. It wasn't because Malkin decided to kick ass for 3 rounds, then when the Finals came around he said "Oh s***. I'm a *****. Time to stop trying. I can't ******* handle this pressure playing in the Finals..The world - it's too big! I'm a peabrained moron who can't....play...hockey...in...June!" Do you realize how ******* ridiculous you sound when you try and suggest something like that?

Noone, but unfortunately, since most people have been ESPNified and think there's something magical and mystical about the postseason, and regular season performances mean nothing, and David Eckstein is better than Arod, and Peyton WAS a choke and sucked until he won a Super Bowl and became good...they automatically go into nonsense-mode when a shred of rationality is bestowed upon their "REGULAR SEASON IS MEANINGLESS! THE PLAYOFFS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AND IF AROD OR OVECHKIN NEVER WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS THAN ITS THEIR OWN ******* FAULT!"

What.The f***.Does that have to do with anything? You do know Zeta's Smythe is a replica, right? Ergo, it's "retired" as well?

Here we go with made up phrases like "performing under the most pressure and intensity" Guys don't start magically sucking when the postseason comes around. Everyone wants to win the Cup, and a lot of guys have the unfortunate task of facing better teams every year that knock them out of the playoffs. For the record, the Smythe is "awarded annually to the player judged most valuable to his team during the National Hockey League's Stanley Cup playoffs."

That's because the Smythe usually comes with the Cup, which is what every player really wants. But the chances of ever winning one are extremely remote - and the discussion was about prestige, which history has bestowed the Hart as - the most prestigious trophy in the sport, after the Cup. And based on the history of Hart winners, it's impossible to argue against it. Nobody cares about the damn Smythe. Just talk to Cam Ward about it. Maybe everybody should stop playing the regular season, hold a raffle for the 16 teams in the playoffs, that way we can forget about the 'meaningless' regular season and just focus on what's REALLY important - a small sample size of games played in April and May.

It is impossible to argue against this sort of stubbornness. I commend you for sticking to your convictions, regardless. But man, I beg you, pull back the shades and take sports for what they are.

"I don't have to back up my claims with anything remotely resembling facts, credible opinions or cited sources. Why? f*** YOU, THAT'S WHY! THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!" Christ almighty, the rest of that post is painful to read.

A players success is almost entirely contingent on his regular performance. Play well, and help your team get to the playoffs. From there, a whole lot of luck, bounces, and special performances from guys named Franzen, Helm, Hudler, etc. help your team win it all. So the argument that the regular season means nothing is patently false.

-"The Hart Trophy is awarded annually to the player chosen by hockey writers as being "most valuable" to his NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE team. It was donated to the NHL in 1923 by Dr David A. Hart, father of Cecil Hart, former manager of the Montreal Canadiens. The oldest and most prestigious individual award in hockey, it was retired to the HOCKEY HALL OF FAME in 1960 and replaced by the Hart Memorial Trophy." Ouch. You: Ouch. Because most people are simpleminded s***-for-brains who think it's an individuals own fault for not having won a Cup or a championship or a Super Bowl, and it's these people that need to be eradicated from having an opinion about sports. These people buy way too much into the mainstream media bulls*** conjuring up mythical curses and stories about teams and players inability to "win the big one." Those stories sell newspapers, but they'll get you laughed out of a real debate. Players are not made and broken in a miniscule sample size in the postseason, but if that's what you believe, so be it. So Deion Branch was the leagues best receiver when he won the Super Bowl MVP with the Patriots? Dexter Jackson was the leagues best safety when he won Super Bowl MVP with the Bucs? Hell, Chauncey Billups was the leagues best PG when he won Finals MVP with the Pistons? The answer is hell ******* no to all the above. They put forth great efforts while their great teams were marching towards victory. Postseason awards are hugely predicated on the success of your team as a whole. Alexander Ovechkin isn't a f***-up because he hasn't won a Smyth or led his team out of the first round. Theodore might be the lone exception in the long history of Hart winners who proved to be all-world players in their time - including Lindros. Do you wish to stop digging now? The Hart is considered the most prestigious individual honor in the sport, and the Smythe is special in its own right. You'll have a tough time convincing any rational people(read: Non-Wings fans at the moment) that the Smythe holds more weight, though, based on all the factors that go into winning it.

Thank you. And when did the Cup become an individual honor? Did I miss the memo? Is Dallas Drake a better player now than Jarome Iginla because he won a Cup? Do you think he'd switch placed with Drake, have an average NHL career, win a Cup - as opposed to being an all-world player whose just fallen short of the Cup and could very well get another chance to win soon enough? Don't play that game, opie. A player can only control his own destiny. Not an entire teams.

Huh? The Conn Smythe just means you were one of the many contributing players to a winning team based on a sample size of about 22-24 playoff games. Considering half the league can't make the postseason, saying the Smythe winner is the best player in the league is hogwash. Winning the Cup is a team effort, and I don't care how cliche it is. The Hart is still, by far, the most prestigious award. Don't tell me the Smythe goes to the best player in the league when Richards, Nieuwendyk, Claude Lemieux, Bill Ranford, Ron Hextall, Butch Goring, etc have won it. And Considering Cup losers have won it as well, that kind of throws a wrench in the "best player on the best team" argument, which was already porous in the first place.

If Franzen isn't signed before the season starts and he gets off to a torrid start(like averaging more than a point per game), his value might get up to 4.5-5 million.