b.shanafan14

OP: Is "decent" somehow better than "good"? As far as the age, there is no denying that even the younger Wings are starting to get a bit long in the tooth. I don't think that is a bad thing YET. If management continues to let the roster stagnate with the older/ineffective support players, they'll find themselves with Datsyuk and Zetterberg is decline wishing they had capitalized when they had the chance. The Euro Twins best years are going to be drawing to a close eventually, and I for one think the biggest crime is not providing them and Lidstrom with the proper support over the past 3 seasons to utilize their tremendous play and compete-level. Not only is it a missed opportunity, but the injuries are mounting and play is declining because they are called upon to shoulder the vast majority of both the offense and defense.

Yeah, I keep watching it and shaking my head. Hudler looks like he may be about to get burned, so I understand why Lidstrom went to him. But watching White put his head down and sprint towards a guy already dogged by two players blows my mind. AND THEN Howard leaves his crease by about 5 feet to cut down the angle on a guy who had no scoring angle to speak of and was completely neutralized in terms of the shot. Lemmings.

HAHA AMAZING PLAY! He dunked over a player that can't touch him within the bounds of the rules! 2 POINTS!... 106 more to go before the final 2 minutes takes 15 minutes because my team is down by a bucket and I need to foul them every time they inbound. ESPN will show a dozen of the same dunks and jumpers, seemingly at random since one play is as mundane as the next. Then you get to an NHL playoff game and the guy talks over 2 of 7 goals, no saves or hits, with the monotone "boom goes the dynamite" voice for 15 seconds.

Sums up Jimmy's night pretty well.

:thumbup: Agree on all points. And the players who are tuning Babcock out are the ones who are the problem. Can't swap out a one-of-a-kind coach like Babcock for the poor showings of players who are undersized (Hudler), past their prime (Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Cleary), uninterested/lazy (Franzen), injured (Helm, Eaves) or inadequate (Emmerton, Abdelkader at center). Who does that leave in the scoring department? Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Miller, Nyquist. Sounds about right. Between the comments about how this team isn't built to compete physically, wishing he had someone in the trenches, and getting pissed about missed free agency/trade opportunities, I think Babcock has lobbied plenty to change tweak the formula to get it back to what it was in 2008-2009. Babcock "pissed off" thread

Filppula's value is high, so I get that logic, but you'll never get a comparable player back in return. Filppula is the best player on the team not named Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Lidstrom. He earns every point he gets and then some. He hasn't be able to get on the scoreboard these playoffs, but who has? Filppula has to stay. Franzen has to go, in my opinion. He has become the face of this teams bad habits and poor effort. He'll still be able to fetch a decent return, but not for long. With another 8 years left, the Wings need to clear him from their books, even if essentially taking a "mulligan" on his contract doesn't get them what they feel is adequate. Shop him quietly and do it by the draft/free-agency, this team will be world's better for it.

Splitting hairs. Goal in Game 3 was after the clock had expired. It wasn't a goal and that was the RIGHT call. That was on a legitimate scoring chance, and yes, the result of 0.1 second of s*** luck. Howard fluffed on the post on a shot from behind his goal. That was a goal and the officials got it WRONG. They lucked out, but were noticeably rattled and let them score on the next shot (not really Howard's fault). The Wings finally score to tie it, before Howard let's in a complete stinker, leaving his goal along the goal line 5 feet to cut down the angle of the one over defended guy on the ice. The disallowed goal was an example of Howard not playing up to snuff, and while many of the goals against are on him, he is expected to stop at least one legit scoring chance and hasn't. Goaltenders aren't paid to stop the logo hunters, their paid to stop the 50/50 or 60/40 plays.

It was an incredible opportunity to sign someone of his caliber who was willing to forgo long-term, big money contracts to take a shot at the cup while waiting out the Wing's cap situation at the time. Unfortunately, the Wings didn't jump at the chance to lock up a proven elite when they had the chance; still riding the high of Franzen's 2008 playoff performance, with a shortened regular season due to injuries always leaving a portion of his "potential" in the dark. The assumption was always "if he can play a complete season, he'll be a 40-goal scorer", so why not sign him for less than Hossa for the same projected production? The term was there to knock down the cap-hit, but it is more of a noose than a pardon.

Yes, Datsyuk's first playoff was 2002. As he recalled it (paraphrasing) "It was nice, sit on the bench and win cup". He wasn't really great in the playoffs until around 2008. He's gotten world's stronger from my vantage point, and 2007 being a murder's-row of goon teams (Calgary, SJ, Anaheim) probably provided some fortitude. Back on topic: I was as disappointed in Hossa's no-show as anyone, but he had a pretty significant injury. Even after signing with Chicago, he sat out the first half of the season because of his shoulder surgery. The year before in Pittsburgh he was an absolute beast. Gave the Red Wings way more problems than either Crosby or Malkin. And his two-way play is marvelous to watch.

Sometimes I think there is an element of every teams natural change over that is missing from the Red Wings: players wanting to test the water elsewhere. Players come to this franchise and like it here. They are playing with some of the best to ever play the game, in an organization that functions like a big family, with a community that appreciates while respecting them, and the best owners in pro-sports. I don't think you can discount the fact that a player wanting to go elsewhere or at least see what his options are in free agency causes quicker turnover. Red Wings management these days seems to exist only to fill gaps left by retiring players or cap-casualties. After that, the priority is retaining drafted and developed players, no matter what. Who was the last player to get the "thanks but no thanks"? Who was the last player to decide for themselves to test things elsewhere? Lilja, 3 seasons ago?

Again, Howard is not the one to blame for the scoring woes obviously, but there is something to be said about momentum/energy killing goaltending. Preds scored from below the goal-line when it was 0-0, and the refs blew the call and waived it. The very next shot, back of your net. White and Howard both looked like pee wees on the 2nd goal (the game-winner). And the last goal, while a sloppy play by his defense, caught him snoozing. Howard stopped all of 10 shots through 2 periods, then let 4 by him in the third, all the while the Wings carried play. You win games against good goaltender by attrition. It was all Wings until the uber weak goal that was deemed dead. After they scored one that stuck, the Wings came back and scored. Then that awful 2nd goal, manageable. Then the 3rd goal made it insurmountable. If Howard had played even half as good as he is capable of, this game should have ended 1-0 or 2-1 in the Wing's favor. Rinne stopped 40 of 41 shots. Howard stopped 14 of 17 (18) with a save percentage of .823 (.778). It was all Wings until the puck went in their net.

As frustrating as the lack of accountability is, getting rid of Babcock would be a huge mistake. The Wings will not find a better/similar coach anywhere. Blame his rookie assistants for being irrelevant and Holland for allowing the team to stagnate for 3 years. Lost two coaches to head coaching jobs, where they've since excelled, and replaced them with nobodies on a team of guys who have forgotten more things about hockey than some college or minor league coach will ever know. Sign some respectable veteran coaches who have the itch to assistant positions. Either way, this starts at the top. I'm not saying Holland needs to be replaced, but he needs to get off his ass and do something. As others have said, Babcock has made several comments in recent years about the competition getting better and the Wings not doing enough, as well as very thinly veiled comments about the need for grit. He know what it takes to win, its Holland's job to provide him with the personnel to do so. And don't think for a second that the lack of accountability for Franzen doesn't have to do with Holland signing a player with a small body of work to an astronomical contract and needing to justify it/save face.

Bettman in the building, just like when Weber pulled his turnbuckle mover on Zetterberg. Look on his face says "99.9% of the time" to me. And shocker, non-traditional NHL puppet market gets the better of the call and win the game... hmmm...

All of this. Defense has plenty of bodies. We'll need someone to cushion the loss of Lidstrom, but a reliable backup to prevent us from overworking/injuring Howard and coaches worth their salt would help that tremendously. Eaves and Helm healthy would change the team completely, but we did never replace Draper's faceoff acumen.

"Didn't see what we were looking for in free agency" "Prices were too high for our liking" "Holding on to our cap-space for possible late season acquisitions" "Improvements will come from within (reference a players injury or player waiting for breakout)" "We like our hockey team" Last three years have been treading water. Wasting years on the odometer of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom, the latter of which will most likely be gone. I hate using hindsight, but it is true, the signing of Franzen and Hudler in 2009 while letting Hossa and Samuelsson walk has not worked out. And I would be shocked if Holland doesn't resign Hudler at a raise. Way too much loyalty; not enough balls. The Wings NEED a splash in free agency, in the form of Parise or Suter. And honestly, seeing how few pure scorers this team has, I would prefer Parise. Top-tier forwards don't become available often, and as much as I know the Wings blueline will need bolstering, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are on the wrong side of the 30-32 hump and need help from a young, elite scorer. Good as Suter is, I really don't think that will change our fortunes, just slow the bleeding. Parise (or similiar elite scorer) or bust.

He's so clutch. I've only noticed him when he is taking stupid penalties and watching puck battles from the faceoff dot. Sounds like regular season Franzen to me.

To clarify my position on Howard: Hardly the worst part of the Wings game right now, but expected to be MUCH better. Half of the goals against could definitely be blamed on the defensive lapsed, and were results of legitimate scoring chances. However, Howard has looked shaky handling the puck since Game 1. He hasn't made the save the Wings really need, and its made all the worse by the scoring woes on the opposite end. Howard is not to blame for the Wings not being able to score. He should not be replaced with a higher-cap-hit goaltender. He is not a bad goaltender. He is a good goaltender having a poor/mediocre series. We don't need a different goaltender, just for our current one to play better (which he is more than capable of). I'm not trying to bag on Howard completely, but in a series expected to be a goaltending duel, our goaltender has not competed sufficiently, and shouldn't be let off the hook due to the problems on the other side of the rink. THAT SAID, you could replace Howard's name with anyone not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg for the most part. Like I've said all season, too many passengers, not enough any finishers.

I agree. And Howard played amazing for most of the season prior to being injured. However, that doesn't change or excuse the fact that he has not merely been outplayed by a superior goaltender, but been another layer of soft on an increasing easier team to beat. Simple way to tell how the goaltending his doing, GAA or SV% aside: when you see a decent chance for the opposition developing, do you expect a save or a goal? Every chance Nashville has had this season I have grown to expect in the back of the net, and he hasn't proven me wrong yet. Howard is not the number one issue on this team, but he is a player that should be playing a great deal better. The Wings were never going to score bushels of goals on Rinne. This series was going to be attrition, but what does allowing 3(4) goals on considerably less shots do for a gameplan that came in expecting few goals against a superior goaltender? Maybe referencing anything from 2008 with this year's team is flawed from the start, but the same thing happened in the series against Nashville then. Ellis was playing absolutely lights out. The Wings carried territorial play, but every single scoring chance the Preds had, they buried on Hasek. Game 5, Osgood comes in and battles Ellis in a game of attrition. Even after the Preds scored with the goalie pulled at the end, Osgood managed to win 2-1. That year, when the Wings weren't starting on time or sagging with a lead, Osgood stopped the puck. When chances happened I expected him to save them. That's the simple difference.

He allowed 4 goals. YOU deemed one unimportant, and the refs deemed another non-existent. I agree, this team can't score for s***, but Howard has played OK at best, subpar being a bit more accurate. You look for your goaltender to make saves on scoring chances. Rinne has done that; Howard has not. What's more frustrating than not burying 1 of 20 in their end? Digging it out of your own net on 4 of 8.

I was really hoping he would prove me wrong, but at least next season when Franzen is lazily floating through 82 games because he is "bored" (must be a new way of saying "paid"), all the slappies can't point to how clutch he is come playoffs.

The Wings shooters couldn't hit the house if they were standing in it, made even worse by Rinne being a beast. On the other hand, sloppy bounces or not, you goaltender needs to give you one damn save. The real final score is 4-1, lest we not forget the goal-line shot Howard let trickle in before the refs confused Jimmy's intent to blow with their own.

We sure are better when we spend near the cap. I'm on board. Thanks for two decades of great hockey, Lidas. No finish, AWFUL breakdowns, and a goaltender that hasn't tended goal much better than a cardboard-cutout.

Great. That high stick will have more impact on the series than Weber's head slam. Howard hasn't made a single save.

Where the f*** were White and Howard going on that goal??? Seriously

Ahem.... wouldn't be surprised if Johan has 2-3 goals tonight