b.shanafan14

This. Same goes for Cleary. Both used to be tenacious, now they give it one wack and watch.

The worst part about this game? MacDonald getting thrown in after the Howard injury wasn't an issue. The defense played pretty damn good considering they were down a man or two for 90% of the game. The problem was the forward unit that was the same that lit up Minnesota just two days ago. Too many passengers.

Watching our powerplay is one of the most frustrating things there is. That, and watching half the team float and cough up pucks. Too much ice time for Bertuzzi, Franzen, Cleary, and god bless him, Holmstrom. Can't help injuries, but you can play smarter and harder, for starters. Bad play by Stuart and blown opportunities were the difference today. Watching it with the 'Hawks awful homers is the icing on the cake...

So we all have our opinions about the "loser point" and what it does for overall parity (closing the gap between the best teams and worst teams) and changing the standings among the playoff teams. I personally think that its pretty terrible, less so because of overall parity and more so for what it does to playoff seeding. Also, I'll include the standings without the automatic Top 3 seeding of the division leaders. As both a forum for debate and discussion, as well as plain old interest, I figured I'd open and try to update every few days, the standings as they sit with and without the loser point: [As of 3/4/2012] Western Conference 1-10 Standings: 1) VANCOUVER 66GP 90PTS 2) DETROIT 65GP 89PTS 3) PHOENIX 65GP 75PTS 4) ST LOUIS 66GP 89PTS 5) NASHVILLE 65GP 83PTS 6) CHICAGO 66GP 77PTS 7) SAN JOSE 64GP 73PTS 8) DALLAS 65GP 73PTS --------------------------- 9) LOS ANGELES 65GP 72PTS 10) COLORADO 66GP 70PTS WITHOUT 3rd PT or Automatic seeding of Division leaders: 1) DETROIT 65GP 43W 2) VANCOUVER 66GP 41W 3) ST LOUIS 66GP 41W 4) NASHVILLE 65GP 38W 5) CHICAGO 66GP 35W 6) DALLAS 65GP 34W 7) SAN JOSE 64GP 33W 8) PHOENIX 65GP 33W --------------------------- 9) COLORADO 66GP 33W 10) LOS ANGELES 65GP 30W Using the old tie system, no division leader seeding: 1) ST LOUIS 66GP 84PTS 2) VANCOUVER 66GP 82PTS 3) DETROIT 65GP 81PTS 4) NASHVILLE 65GP 77PTS 5) CHICAGO 66GP 69PTS 6) DALLAS 65GP 68PTS 7) PHOENIX 65GP 67PTS 8) SAN JOSE 64GP 63PTS --------------------------- 9) LOS ANGELES 65GP 63PTS 10) CALGARY 65GP 61PTS WESTERN CONFERENCE MATCHUPS: As they are: 1) VANCOUVER VS. 8) DALLAS 2) DETROIT VS. 7) SAN JOSE 3) PHOENIX VS. 6) CHICAGO 4) ST LOUIS VS. 5) NASHVILLE Alternative 1 (no loser point or division leader): 1) DETROIT VS. 8) PHOENIX 2) VANCOUVER VS. 7) SAN JOSE 3) ST LOUIS VS. 6) DALLAS 4) NASHVILLE VS. 5) CHICAGO Alternative 2 (2 pts for REG/OT Win, 1 pt for tie, no shootout): 1) ST LOUIS VS. 8) SAN JOSE 2) VANCOUVER VS. 7) PHOENIX 3) DETROIT VS. 6) DALLAS 4) NASHVILLE VS. 5) CHICAGO Some folks would prefer the old system of ties after OT, whereby one point is awarded to each team. I personally prefer to raise the stakes by leaving the format the same, adding longer overtimes with perhaps a 4on4 then 3on3 format before shootouts, while making wins in any case 2PTS and losses in any case 0PTS. This will eliminate teams who "wait out" the third period and overtime when outmatched, content to get a point and try their luck at a shootout, while increasing the desperation on the better team that night to close out the game before reaching a shootout where anything can happen. Either way, I think automatic seeding of division winners should be eliminated.

You sure are neat... FIRST you're telling me that he "could no longer handle the game" after minor health set-backs and only one season with significant time missed, while still scoring .762ppg. BUT at the same time, he would do anything for the money despite family, like some Nazi-era antisemitic caricature? AND your proof is that he wasn't quite so pious as to get paid his first million and retire to spend every day with his family and god, like some Franciscan monk?... astounding.

haroldsnepsts Brian Rafalski. $6 Million dollars. "This was probably the most challenging season of my career, both physically, mentally and spiritually, but it was also the most rewarding and most blessed...The decision was made between myself and my wife approximately two months ago. We went through a long process of weighing different factors in our lives. At the end of the day it came down to priorities, with the top three priorities being serving God, serving my family and serving others."

I've updated the OP with today's numbers while including the current system, the alternative with OT/SO but no loser point and no division leader seeding, and by popular demand, the standings under the old system, replacing SO W/L with ties, and again, no division leader seeding. I've also clarified my stance. ENJOY!

Haha, you and I both at this point, but more than that, I do enjoy the idea of finishing games, although an alternative to the shootout would be VERY welcome. I hate the shootout. HATE. The equivalent of "good game everyone, now lets flip a coin so we can settle this and go home". Honestly, I think the worst part of the shootout is that eventually teams alter the way they play to first accept the "loser point", making sure they at least get one point by playing conservatively in a tied game. Then, teams that are outmatched skating and/or figure themselves better in the shootout, tend to play in such a way to ensure it goes there. I think the problem of holding onto the loser tie point instead of risking zero points existed (albeit to a far lesser degree) in the old format. That's why I thought it would be intriguing to both test one suggested solution (same play without a loser point), as well as highlight the extremes of who benefits from such a point. My feeling is that if the playing format remains the same (or better, with longer and/or different overtime) AND the league creates a win-or-bust situation instead of a win-or-half-win situation, the game will get more heated and competitive. In my opinion the salary cap and deeper talent pool has created real parity, while the third point creates false parity while hurting the competitiveness of games. On top of that, I hate watching a game between two teams close to the Wings in the standings and instead of rooting for close, exciting game, I'd prefer a blowout, making sure the third point doesn't rear its ugly head.

Haha beat me to it. Really rusty on his dive timing since leaving the Sharts

I hate very few players for "just being that good". For the most part, its not the really huge stars who burn the Wings in the past (Crosby shut down by Z, for instance). Talbot in Game 7 after the shots he took at Datsyuk's ankle earlier in the series still pisses me off to no end. Pronger's cup win after he and Neidermeyer lit up Holmstrom's head from behind (a hit that today would garner a ridiculous suspension). Joe Pavelski. Corey Perry for sucker punching and pummeling Rafalski. Joe Thornton for being predictable old Joe Thornton; watch any video of Jumbo's tantrums and its ALWAYS against small players like Zetterberg or "really, him?" players like Lidstrom, and its ALWAYS when the Sharks are losing by a couple goals. He's always been a prima donna and his colors really show when his team is losing and he is doing exactly dick on the scoresheet; not totally unlike Crosby. I wonder if everyone else in the league hates Thornton? The one players I can honestly say I hated purely because he was so damn good every time he played the Wings was Rick Nash. Seemed like every game he was getting a hat trick or doing something outstanding against Detroit. I used to call him "baby fat". Wish he was on our team

The Wings have put together a great season thus far. Filppula has emerged as the player we knew he could be. The third line is starting to mesh into a real force, the type you need to win in the playoffs. The back-end has shown sparks of brilliance prior to recent miscues. Datsyuk continues to prove time and again he is the elite among the elite, despite having less help than most national media think he does. Even a down season from Zetterberg has shown speed and effort which I believe will see him closer to 70 points than the 62 points he is on pace for. The real sore spot from game to game is the disappearing act of Johan Franzen. He has become a floater, getting away from the inside game that has made him successful in the past. His goals are not coming as easy as he seems to hope, coinciding with his lack of effort. For me, there are two categories Wings forwards have fallen into: 1) those who seem to put in the effort every night, pick up their linemates, and often seem to deserve more on the scoresheet than their linemates' play allows, 2) the passengers, the beneficiary, floating, showing little effort while allowing the first group to do all the work, often seeming to "pad" their stats on the backs of their more tenacious linemates. For me, Datsyuk and Filppula have proven themselves members of the first group. On the flipside, Hudler and Franzen are prime examples of the latter group. Franzen in particular has shown diminishing effort and thus diminishing returns since his 11-year contract was signed at the tail end of the 2008-2009 season. Watching his work ethic, or lack thereof, game in game out has to be a tremendous frustration for Wings coaching and management, as it is for fans. After a decent start to his season, Franzen returned to his inconsistent, uninterested ways: This season he is on pace for: 81gp 29g 31a 60pt (beneficiary of Datsyuk) In the last 22gp: 11pts 7g 4a -3 If his current play continues: 81gp 29g 27a 56pt Looking at Franzen's production and salary since prior to and after signing current contract: 08-09: .479g/gp .831pt/gp $1.15m 09-10: .370g/gp .778pt/gp $5.50m 10-11: .368g/gp .724pt/gp $5.50m 11-12: .358g/gp .741pt/gp $5.25m Last 22gp: .318g/gp .500pt/gp Based on his production prior to signing The Red Wings are paying for: 82gp 40g 29a 69pt Unfortunately, they are getting: 25-29g 41-60pt (based on slump-season) And what about his playoff performance? To me, Franzen's worth will always be measured 60%-75% by his playoff production and effort. But in this "what have you done for me lately" league, what has he done for the team lately? 10-11 playoffs: .250g/gp .375pt/gp previous three playoffs: .608g/gp 1.159pt/gp Is Franzen on a permanent downswing? To me, he is not the player the Wings are paying for and hasn't been since signing his "major contract". He is not getting any younger, has always been injury prone, and even when healthy, lacks the strength of character to sustain interest and effort throughout a season, let alone throughout the remainder of his career. Is there anything that can be done to correct his attitude? Would you be willing to trade him? If so, what would you want in return? Could he be packaged to acquire an elite scorer (Nash, etc.)? I'm not saying we should, or could trade him with adequate return, but the future is not looking fantastic for Franzen.

I remember when he first signed the contract, a LOT of folks around here were calling it a bad deal. "Getting paid on potential" I believe was the main gripe. Even before the offensive breakout, Filppula was worth it. And seeing how the cap has continued to go up, $3 mil for a player of Filppula's caliber is ridiculous. Keep going Fil, I'm guessing near 70 points by season's end!

I agree completely. Skill is no limit, effort is. As a sports fan, that's the most frustrating thing to watch, in my opinion. I'm not giving Franzen a pass for his low cap hit. He is being paid $5.25 million this season. Add the security the Wings have granted him with such a contract and he should be playing like $6 million. Let him play like $3+ million player when he is getting paid that and his play over time will even out. Setting the bar at the cap hit and then assuming diminished play over time and you'll never get what you paid for. Looking at effort, defensive play, making his teammates better, and other intangibles, who would you rather have: Franzen @ $3,651.54 per minute of Ice Time OR $84,677.42 per point OR $175,000.00 per goal Filppula @ $2,434.36 per minute of Ice Time OR $55,555.56 per point OR $145,833.33 per goal And some folks were complaining about Filppula's contract and him being paid on potential? Again, give me effort over stats, but if you aren't giving the effort, you better damn well have the stats. Franzen has neither. I hope he plays the rest of the season like he did last night, going to the hard areas and skating. We'll be rewarded with effort, he'll be rewarded with goals and points. I'm pulling for Franzen, always have been, but his effort has to change.

Goal and an assist, but even more promising: effort. He went to the net for the first time in a long time, did the things that made him successful in the past and is rewarded. First goal, crashing and swatting outside the crease, good garbage goal. Filppula goal, Franzen is down low in the slot when the shot from the point, bats it free to the front of the net. When Franzen is playing the way he should be, he is a huge factor. Problem is that he hasn't been doing those things. Good game from the Mule, now more of the same is needed. He is on pace for 30 goals and career high in points, but he is also looking at his first 80+ game season since 2005-2006. The numbers to start the thread were not a fabrication and have not gone away. His career year was still prior to signing his big contract. That year his 59 points included 34 goals. That year his totals were achieved in 71 games, while also assuming everyone's argument of hampered play after return from injury. Consider Franzen's pace if he were playing 71 games and you're looking at 27 goals 27 assists 54 points. He needs to pick up the pace scoring, but more pressing is the need to change his attitude and the way he plays. He started as a grinder getting garbage goals and going to the hard areas, not a floater shooting from the outside. GO FRANZEN and GO WINGS.

Great to see Filppula's effort night in, night out. I've said it before, but this guy brings it as consistently as anyone in the league. He is tenacious every game and make the team better, even when he isn't showing up on the scoresheet. To date he is on pace for 64+ points and 24+ goals. As the team pushes towards the playoffs and gets healthy, its conceivable that his score pace picks up even more. Just like Z, I see him scoring closer to 70 points by the end of the season. Points aside, he brings more than most. Good on ya, Fil :clap:

The Wings added a Number 5 defenseman for a first rounder, while trading the Number 7 defenseman for nothing. Wings before the deadline festivities: lacked Top 6 scorer and a fourth line worth more than 4 minutes a night with no PK ability. Wings after the deadline... well you get the picture. I would be less irritated if the rest of the conference didn't address their concerns and get better. Vancouver adds Pahlsson, Sharks get bigger and better, Nashville adds a bit of scoring, grit and PK, even Chicago adds Oduya. Not unsurprising, just terribly disappointing. The last deal worth a damn? 2008 when the Wings got Stuart. We all know what happened that year and what has happened since.

Great, now he is going to screw up another line that is meshing . Seriously though, I hate this. Helm Abdelkader Miller have been chewing up opposition defense and have been our best unit for a few weeks now. I would rather sit Franzen and make him watch how they operate without messing things up. I understand the logic of putting him with guys who are busting their asses, hoping it rubs off on him, while at the same time checking his ego by 'demoting' him, but it stinks in my opinion. Now the fourth line... (I honestly have no clue what to do with Franzen; don't like wasting anyone's effort on him until he fixes his attitude, really, knowing full well that is unrealistic)

GWG proves clutch, but like anything, should be taken with a grain of salt. GTG (game tying goals) when behind are just as clutch if not more in today's NHL, but not tracked well. In most cases, GWG happen not breaking a tie, but as a technicality (ie, 4-1 game means 2nd goal is GWG, if they score one more to make it 4-2, now the 3rd goal is the GWG). Not to completely diminish the feat, because Franzen is clutch when he is on his game, but how many games are lost when a player of his responsibility disappears for the stretches which he does?

This. Agree, we can hardly fault him for his injury and a single playoff with sub-par performance. My point was that if we are dismissing or tolerating his disinterest and lazy play during the regular season, when the team needs him to climb the standings and secure home ice in the post-season (something that can't be downplayed), what happens when he is unable to perform for one reason or another? As much as his worth is proven in the playoffs, his job is no different than every player: show up every night. While its unrealistic to expect every player to show up every night, few players have Franzen's potential or his contract.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=386166 Fresh from the Bob McKenzie rumor mill: Seems like its mostly speculation, but could be interesting. Despite a dip in production, possibly due to injury and reduced ice-time, I always thought the guy was built for the playoffs. He plays with a lot of energy, hits like a cannonball, and can score some clutch goals. His production has been dropping and he hasn't had a sniff at the playoffs since the Wings eliminated the Stars in 2008. However, if available at little cost and willing to play with a cup contender like the Wings, I'd definitely be interested. What do you folks think? What is he worth?

This is a great interview with Boylen from THN. Short, sweet, and plenty of Datsyuk's trademark character. Extremely humble and appreciative about being so well-respected and the last question he answers is a complete gem. Somehow he says something completely unexpected (at least to me) and it is far better than any other thing he could have (and anyone else would have) said. Enjoy! http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/44429-VIDEO-Oneonone-with-Detroit-Red-Wings-superstar-Pavel-Datsyuk.html

This. Only watched for a chance to see Datsyuk dazzle. I saw plenty of Patrick Kane, Corey Perry, and company (although mini-stick move should have won that event). Watch for two plus hours and what do I see? Datsyuk takes 15 seconds to spin himself dizzy around cones and then half-heartedly does his go to backhand-to-forehand move against a goaltender who was expecting it. Way to utilize the best talent in the whole fiasco. Should have had him in the passing event since Kane took forever, you can't tell me Pasha wouldn't have smoked him. They didn't even have him passing for accuracy or one-timers, he literally cooled his heels for the whole event. No wonder players opt out. The game is one thing, but most of those guys during the draft, media day, and skill competition have to be thinking "I'm leaving my family for THIS?"

This exactly. Plays the right way, hard, physical brand of hockey that is a huge pain in the ass. Too many times I've seen a player get clocked by Morrow and thought begrudgingly "damn... good hit". I think the guy would be perfect for this team in the position they're in. They have the bodies, but they need a Cup-starved veteran, team-first Dallas Drake type (you know, the same thing we have been needing since the last cup). Add a guy like Morrow to set a physical tone early, so we can see more games like the St. Louis contest earlier this week. See if they'll take Hudler and a late draft pick, that way they get a "better" offensive player and some greater compensation, while at the same time being able to dump the salary of an under-performing player. Stars might not bite, but it would be worth asking .

Honestly, I don't see this one as unfeasible . Hudler's production is increasing again while Morrow's stock is falling. I think Morrow would be perfect, plays a physical game, could keep the flies off better than anyone else we have at the moment, and seems like a great leader. His cap hit is a bit on the high side, but if the Wings can afford to absorb it next season, it would be helped by dropping Hudler's hit. We might have to sweeten the deal a bit more due to Hudler's size and speed (or lack there of), but honestly, even trade I think. He is hungry and could probably use the change in scenery. Morrow (and a fourth rounder) for Hudler (and a third rounder). Get it done, Kenny

He must be reading a romantic novel. He should pass it down the bench.