wings4thecup06

And then if Alfie doesn't return and decides to retire, we might actually see Jurco on that 3rd line

This is interesting.... The Wheel Deal @Bill_Roose · 1h With a logjam at centermen, #RedWings Mike Babcock said today that he plans to start Darren Helm at wing on Pavel Datsyuk's line. So: Z - Datsyuk - Helm Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist Tatar - Sheahan - Alfie? Abby - Glendening - Miller Scratch - Andersson, Cleary

I think the whole Jurco vs Callahan thing right here and why some view Jurco to get preferential treatment even though he's spent less time in the minors is simply the fact (IMO) that he got called up, took the job and ran with it. I think we'd be talking about a different situation right now if Jurco had been called up, played like Ferraro did, and then didn't get another shot. Then maybe Callahan would have got more than just his one game cup of coffee, and maybe he would have seized the opportunity. Quite simply, Jurco got an opportunity and showed he could play in the NHL. If Callahan had got the same opportunity would he have been able to do just that? Who knows. I hope Callahan turns out to be a key forward on the 4th line for the Wings for years to come, but right now, it's Jurco that has shown he can at least play in the NHL. Callahan's turn will come, and when that happens, he'll have to make the most of it. Sometimes its just how the cookie crumbles. But, I agree to an extent that it wouldn't hurt Jurco to play the year in GR, and he will get recalled at some point. On the other hand, the Wings have basically created this roster log jam at forward. Cleary didn't have to come back, nor Alfie (although I will be happy if he returns), and we've got either Andersson or Glendening who IMO one of which is expendable (my money's on Andersson, Glendening brings a different style of game that we need more of - like Callahan). If Jurco starts the year in the NHL, I'll be happy. But if (as is most likely to happen), he starts in GR, then I'll be happy too. It gives him more time to grow his game and develop into a better scoring and defensive forward so that this time next year when he'll be on the roster from the start (most likely) he'll be maturer and ready to carry a good chunk of the load.

That is precisely my hang up with Cleary. I have nothing against him, and have a lot of respect for him. But unlike Aflie (who could, if he plays like last season, could contribute 20 goals), a full season of Jurco would most likely end up with 20 goals, and a very productive 3rd line.

I have a ton of respect for Cleary. But I'm completely divided on this issue. Part of me wants Danny to have a real strong season, but then the other half of me wants several prospects - Jurco and Mantha mainly, to play better than him in preseason so they force managements hand into playing them full time in the NHL this season. More so for Jurco than Mantha, but you get the point. I don't want Cleary to fail or suck though. But part of me feels its time to move on and properly make the young guns transition. Jurco is a big part of that IMO, and if we can get nearly a full season of Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco, we'll be a stronger team.

The Coyotes really need to be relocated. The whole thing really has just been a joke. I would actually say the Stars have done very well. Cousin of mine lived in the Dallas area for a little over a year and now has moved back to Chicago. He tells me that there's more rinks and opportunities to play pick up hockey and leagues in Dallas than there are in Chicago. The Stars have pumped a lot of money into the local community in order to grow the game. The problem is, it took nearly 10 years before that happened. See here: http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7024 I have no problem with Nashville, and I believe they're developing a decent hockey market with some passionate fans.

Having rethought this, I'd still have no problem putting Datsyuk with Z and Nyquist, even just to see if it works. High octane offence, speed and hands that could destroy an opposing line. Yes they're lacking in size, but size isn't everything. Anyway, this debate is beginning to annoy me slightly as to the reality that Jurco will most likely start the year in the AHL. And yes while a little seasoning in the AHL would be good for him, he more than held his own last year, otherwise he wouldn't have stayed. While I feel like pulling for Cleary to have a good camp, in some ways I'm hoping Jurco just runs circles around everyone so he forces everyone's hand.

Even if Cleary has a horrible camp and is clearly a really bad option to be kept on the roster? I could see it happening if he has a good camp yes, but what if he just can't play at this level anymore?

I believe that also counts for paying their own food, lodgings etc, and they have to give the gear back the gear the teams give them for the duration of camp. The flip side of that is that the team has 4 years to sign the guy after they've been drafted, vs 2 or 3 years (sorry, can't remember which) for non-collegiates.

This is part of the problem - the league (mainly Bettman) is too stubborn to accept where it has gone wrong and where things aren't working. If they were, we already would have seen Hockey return to Winnipeg long before it actually happened, in addition to Quebec and the Toronto area would have a second NHL team by now.

I have no problem with Z, Dats and Gus. Like Nawein said, Z and Gus had great chemistry before the Olympics. Placing Jurco on the top line right now isn't what's needed. He needs to grow his offensive game at the NHL level and learn how to score and be physical consistently, so that when he gets his top line minutes chance, he can do the job. Learning the power forwards role against top line opponents when you're a rookie isn't easy. If Abby had better hands, he'd be perfect. Can we bring back Shanny?

Can you really say that Florida has been a success when they're constantly losing money? They've made the playoffs 4 times in their 20 year history and only ever got past the first round once. And Phoenix? Having to be propped up by the league for so long and constantly surrounded by rumours of contraction or relocation?

I meant doomed in terms of starting the season with the Wings and then staying for the season. I have no doubt he'll get called up and play at least 20 games at some point.

On the team and re-united with Sheahan and Tatar for 3rd line duty? Yes. Top line stuff? Probably not right now if you ask me. Get his confidence built up by having a full NHL season against non-top line opposition first, and then start promoting him.

From watching the 97 playoffs though, every time Fedorov is on the ice, you can tell there's potential for him to wreak havoc. His wheels are enough for you to sit up and take notice. Not having witnessed Stevie in his prime, I can't make a fair comparison. But I agree about Datsyuk. Just every time he's out there, you wonder 'what's he going to do next'. Guy is arguably and has been the most exciting player in the league over the last decade.

Personally, I think Jurco was doomed as soon as Cleary was signed. The only saving grace here though is if management sees that Cleary has a horrible camp and decides that they've had enough.

Hmm, that's not bad, although I'd have to say, a bit of a waste having Sheahan at wing. He was good on draws and plays an excellent two way game, which is far more important at C than it is at wing. Plus, he;s got good size.

Personally, I reckon part of it will depend on the next 3 years. If the Wings can get another cup with Dats and Z leading the way, then it'll definitely boost their chances no doubt.

Do we really want to be exposing our young fans to that kind of stuff at such a young age? This should be about hockey, not blowing away money. Which is precisely the reason the NHL should avoid LV like the plague.

Yea this isn't a good idea. Why should you be rewarded for just missing the playoffs? Plus, there actually might be a bigger incentive just to miss the playoffs than make it! Thus, if you're in a battle for the last spot with like 2 other teams, all of them might try and tank to get that 17th place, which wouldn't make for entertaining hockey at all.

This is precisely why this argument is so difficult and why comparing players from different eras will always be incredibly hard.

I'm sorry, but this would be the worst idea. It's an absolute joke. Hasn't the NHL actually learned from the fiascos that are the Panthers, Coyotes and all the sunbelt franchises? What were the stories coming out of Florida last year saying the panthers were losing millions each year? How many years did the league have to prop up the Coyotes finances? If they should be doing anything, it's moving the Panthers to Quebec City, and the Coyotes to Seattle. I'd rather see the league fold than have a team in another doomed from the start, non hockey loving City that couldn't give two shoots about the game.

I reckon the simply and short answer is, there is a new challenge that has arisen. Before, in the late 90's early 2000's, it was tweaking and adding little pieces to get us over the top. Ala Hasek, Robitaille, Hull etc. Lang. Stuart. Etc etc. We didn't need all these fancy first round picks, we could get who we needed. Now, not only is the cap a massive challenge, but the Wings lost Lidstrom, and competitive balance is raging on as ever. The challenge is now to keep the Wings competitive while building the team up without falling into the basement, so that in 2 or 3 years we can start adding those little pieces to once again put the Wings over the top.

I really do wonder how much better their numbers really would have been tbh. Not because of the quality of their line mates, but simply because the average standard of goalies across the board has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years or so. For example, in 88-89, Yzerman's best offensive output, GAA league leader was Roy with a pedestrian 2.44. And outside of Pete Peters 2.31 in 82, that was the highest of the decade. In the 23 years from 1990-91 to last year, only 8 times has the league leader in GAA been above 2.00, 3 of which were above 2.30. Again in 1990-91 Belfour led the league in GAA with a 2.47 and SV% of .910. Today? The top 3 GAA leaders were all under 2.00, while SV% was led by Harding at .933 and Rask at .930. Now obviously, GAA isn't everything, but its just a snapshot. The butterfly style has by and large transformed the goalie and offence has decreased, even in the no obstruction era. Goalies are just so much better across the board today than they were 20-25 years ago. I agree though that if I had to choose, right now I'd pick Stevie and Feds over Pavel and Hank. Hank has averaged just over a point per game in the last 2 seasons, albeit with a bad back, which is now fixed. If he's feeling as good as he says he is, I don't see why an 80 point season is out of reach if he stays healthy the entire year.

Great post, and I couldn't agree more. I remember watching the Wings beat down the Hawks in 04 and it was just plain embarrassing. Chicago were just truly awful, and I don't think I would want to see the Wings become that bad, I really wouldn't. I wouldn't stop watching, but it would be soul destroying. I don't care if it would result in a 1st overall pick, I'd much rather be in the position the Wings are now, competing while rebuilding on the fly, than be the laughing stock of the league.