wings4thecup06

Yea that's a sweet video. Hopefully with his knee healthy we'll see a few more dangles this year

Fair enough, and yea I do see what you're saying. Sometimes taking a flyer on guys like that does work, so I agree, sometimes it would be good to see the wings do that from time to time.

I probably wouldn't take a flyer on Setoguchi right now, because simply, where the hell would he play, and which one of our young guys would he block from making the team? Let's face it, Seto was on a fairly decent Jets team that had a good amount of talent (Ladd, Byfuglien, Little, Kane, Scheifele, Jokinen etc etc) so it's not like they were basement dwellers. Don't get me wrong, he's probably a good secondary player who can chip in a 50 point season, but his play is trending downwards. But more importantly, where would he play? We already have a log jam now with Cleary back and possibly the return of Alfie. One more guy just means its even less likely Jurco makes the team.

Not only did they f*** it up, but they also will be responsible for driving up D man's salaries into the potential stratosphere next season. Saying that though, somebody was going to do it at some point. The only reason Weber's contract has a lower cap hit than PK is due to the length of it, which meant that the Predators drove down the AAV. And by quite a bit. The maximum PK makes in real dollars in one season is $11m, whereas the first 4 years of Webers contract had him making $14m. PK's is still a ludicrous overpayment though. There's no escaping that fact.

I agree with you about your criteria, somewhat. The thing with Lindros is that he was never on the ice long enough to show how truly good he was. If he hadn't got destroyed by Stevens, and a few others multiple times he'd no doubt be in the hall by now. Datsyuk will probably end up with around 1,000 points if he stays healthy. Combine that with his defensive attributes and I think a case could be made for him making the hall. All you have to do is swing by the Pavel Datsyuk show thread on this forum and you've got a great start!

Scoring tons of goals doesn't mean you can't be a complete player. Look at Bergeron for example. I'd say Pavel is a complete player. More complete than Fedorov? That's hard to say because when Sergei was in his prime (early 90's), tons of goals were still going in across the league.

Getting David Price was great, but I can't help but feel that this team misses Austin Jackson. And they really need Verlander to start pitching like he did a couple years ago, because they can't keep throwing guys like Ray out there to get shelled every 5th day.

I get what you're saying, but why should Pavel need another 1 or 2 90+ point seasons? Why can't a guy who is arguably and has arguably been the best two way forward in the league for most of the last decade need massive point totals? (Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Datsyuk returned to his 90 points pace)

In some ways both guys are similar. Magic when they've got the puck and could do tremendous things, while also being terrific defensively. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with such an amazing pair of hands as Datsyuk. Definitely rivals Alexei Kovalev if not passes. Fedorov probably has Datsyuk in terms of wheels, and probably wrist shot, although Datsyuk's backhander is definitely the best in the league right now and has been for some time. I'd say that they might be pretty even defensively. Personally I didn't see enough of Fedorov when he was at his best, having only started following the Wings around 1999, whereas I've seen pretty much all of Datsyuk's career. That said, while I'm watching the 1997 playoffs this summer, I can definitely tell that Sergei just has this presence and this awesomeness about his game that is pretty much elite at times which reminds me of Pavel. Quite honestly, I don't think I can pick a better player right now. For me, it'll depend on whether Datsyuk tails off as much at the end of his career to the extent Fedorov did when he was in Anaheim and Columbus. I wonder if anyone would give Datsyuk extra points for spending his whole career as a Red Wing? Fedorov should be in the hall at some point, whether Pavel makes it is down to these next 3 years I reckon. If he accrues enough goals/points etc then he might squeak in in a few years.

Couldn't agree more. I really miss that too. Shame that Fischer got injured too nearly died and had to retire, we could have used that toughness on the back end. Glad to see that he's doing good though. And yea, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets 10 games, but if he's truly being outplayed in training camp by the likes of Jurco and Pulkkinen, I can't believe the Wings would play him?

But we are rebuilding Frank. It's just happening slowly and with less drastic effects, as the Wings are filtering in the young guys into the lineup to compliment and eventually succeed, the vets. I would still prefer to make the playoffs every year than go the traditional rebuild route where you don't even sniff a winning record for half a decade. But that's me.

Right now this is all just speculation. Just because Cleary has a contract, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to make the team. He may show up to camp, and look horrible compared to the kids. Right now, we just don't know. Or, he may show up to camp and blow everyone away. Either way its good for the Wings (so long as if he's horrible, they send him down or release him). Personally I think Jurco has proven enough to warrant NHL playing time, but management might feel different.

Plus, things shouldn't just be gifted to anyone in life, they should be earned. Just like with the young kids here. Why would they be pasted straight into the lineup every night if they hadn't already proven they could play at that level, or even tried to earn it? It sends the wrong message to everyone in the organisation. Whereas sending the message of 'if you want to play here, you've got to earn it', promotes (IMO) hard work and competition. Now, granted, it might have seemed like over the last few years the Wings haven't exactly been as lenient with the kids as they perhaps should, but as we saw last year, opportunities arose, and the kids grabbed the bull by the horns and 'earned' their spots. Hopefully, the likes of Jurco and co outplay Cleary and start the year with the big boys.

Here's Cheli and Al!:

Well, at the end of next year, Alfie will retire, and hopefully Cleary will do the same or be let go. So that's 2 spots right there. A 3rd could crop up depending on whether management views Andersson expendable. Which i believe to be true.

True. I'm really going to miss CBC. Everything was just quality.

They've got Jim Hughson and Bob Cole doing play by play. They're not questionable. Or are you talking about presenters? Still, I agree. Didn't like the fact that Rogers got the deal in the first place. Add me to the list of cheerers for it going sour.

I have to say, I agree with Alexei.

I don't think, however, that when they traded for Ryan, that they expected things to go **** up as it did for them this season. But it is what it is. One less weaker team in our division is always good.

There, I fixed it for you

Bah. As much as I dislike him, good for Bettman. As for Danny boy, good for him too. Part of me though wishes he would just retire, but the other part of me wants to see him bounce back and have a big season.

Essentially you've just taken what I said completely out of context. Obviously, I'm highly aware that we drafted Stevie with the 4th overall pick in 1983. And obviously, I realise that's what happens when you have bad seasons - you get to draft highly. What I was trying to point was the fact that the Kings young guys that Harold mentioned, were heralded for the fact that they were drafted really high. Contrast that with the Wings, who rarely pick high, and most of the time in the last decade or two have traded them away.But more so, the guys that are core players now were not thought of as hot shot, blue chip prospects. They had to plough their trade and earn it, and they improved to the point of stardom. I hardly think that I was being short sighted or arrogant.

Harold, I was essentially responding to that by pointing out the reason those prospects on the Kings were so highly regarded. They were really high picks. As opposed to most guys drafted by the wings - they're lower picks, go much further under the radar and generally take a lot longer to reach any sort of high ceiling that they might have. Yes KH has made a couple of bad moves, but not everything he has done has been bad. If I'm arguing this, I'd say this team is still competitive. Making the playoffs still means you're competitive. It means you've got a chance. While this team hasn't been the dominant juggernaut that I think most here would like to see (myself included), doesn't mean they haven't been competitive. And realistically, what if he'd actually signed Suter? This team would have been strengthened no end I feel. But he swung and miss in free agency, and it happens. It just means that it's taking a little longer for the plan to come to fruition in terms of the young guys coming through the system, which we're finally seeing the benefit of. Obviously, I think we'd all like to see the Wings get back to world beaters sooner rather than later, but if it also takes time, and if that means it's done the right way that ensures long term success again, then i'll be willing to wait.

Here's the thing about all those Kings prospects you listed: Brown - drafted 13th overall 2003 Kopitar - drafted 11th overall 2005 Doughty - drafted 2nd overall 2008 Johnson - drafted 3rd overall 2005 Simmonds - drafted 61st overall 2007 Quick - drafted 72nd overall 2005 That's four key players who were drafted 13th overall or lower in the space of 5 years. The Wings are lucky (as we all know) if we even get a first round pick. I think what I'm trying to point out is that these guys is that due to their draft position they were already well heralded, hyped and great things were expected of them. Our guys? Was anyone really saying that Datsyuk was going to be the hall of fame caliber player he is back in 1998? Right now the only guy in our prospect pool who might even come close to what those guys from the Kings had is Mantha - yet we still don't even know what we'll get from him as there's a chance he might not even play in the NHL this season. Personally, I think what we've seen is a philosophy change from KH and the management team - build up the prospect ranks, re-stock the farm, and slowly integrate those kids into bigger roles in the NHL to compliment and support the big guns so that the team grows while also remaining competitive. Once we have the kind of team that KH believes can compete for the cup, then I think we'll start seeing a few trades to bring in guys that will help maintain that goal. A bit like the Stuart trade before we won in 08. I'm guessing here, but I reckon people don't like that because we all want to win now, and on the surface it looks like this team has been going backwards - 1 playoff round win in 3 years. Personally I think this team is moving forward - even with Cleary, and I think the Wings took the biggest step last year. They've established that an entire 3rd line of kids are good enough and ready enough to not only take NHL jobs, but also contribute in a big way. And thus, the philosophy is working. The kids we're drafting and developing are turning into legitimate NHLers. The task I think now is just getting healthy and letting everyone play together so the Wings can evaluate what we truly have, how good everyone is, and what pieces need to be added to make the Wings a cup competitor. But I guess that takes time, and not everyone is happy about that.

The really good news here is the fact that we may now hopefully see Babs locked up as to me at least (from what I've read), all that was holding him back was actually just having a new deal for KH.