wings4thecup06

Gus had a relatively good season, inspite of his injuries. You don't think it's better to bring back a known commodity who actually helped us get to the playoffs last year than go with something completely different who may just have looked good under someone else's defensive system? I mean, I'm all for trying something new, but if the guy had a good season, why not keep him? Yea Gus isn't the greatest goalie, but he's a backup, and backups don't have to be great goalies. They've just got to give you a chance to win 20 games of the year, which Gus more than did last season.

Its not about the length for me, it's the $$$. We had one lockout where salaries were rolled back and a hard cap of $39 million introduced because they were deemed to be getting out of hand. In the time since we've got a cap that's nearly doubled, and mid level players salaries are rising again. Which means that the top players want to earn even more, to separate their egos above those of the middle level, further driving salaries higher. Look at the highest salaries from 03-04: Forsberg = $11m Jagr = $11m Fedorov = $10m Here's after the first lockout - 05-06: Jagr = $8.36m Lidstrom = $7.6m Now look at today - 13-14: Weber $14m Crosby = $12m Parise = $11m So what was the point of both of these lockouts, if the primary aim was to reduce salaries? They've now caught and surpasses pre 2003 levels. That's why for me, its tough to sit here watch a mid level 2nd line role player like Callahan get a mega contract when if not for greed and stupidity we could have avoided 3 lockouts.

meh. I'm happier having my lasting memory of Hartnell having his ass kicked by Jiri Fischer in Nashville.

Back to Alfie, is it realistic to think we could land both he and Iginla? Has anyone heard how much Iginla is asking for? And would anyone support this? It would most likely mean the end of Cleary, which can only be a good thing

True. As good as it would be to get Kesler, I honestly think the asking price will be too high for KH. What that is though, remains to be seen.

Fair enough. I guess with Smith vs Niskanen I'm thinking of all the areas here - contract, age, skills, potential etc. And for that I think we'd be better in the long run with Smith over Niskanen. While you are right that we'd be a better team right now, I guess I just don't like the idea of parting with a guy like Helm just to replace him with a guy like Kesler when we could be a stronger team with both and moving other assets to get Kesler. I think Helm's a bit underrated around here and people give him a bad rap because for the last 2 years he hasn't been healthy, but when he is he's been great. I just think that we might be a better team in the future keeping what we've got rather than adding an overrated D man (IMO) whom we could easily replace with a combination of Smith and our up and coming D men (Sproul etc). Kesler though, would be a welcome addition, although again I think for me it would have to depend on the cost.

So he can come back to burn us? At least in the KHL he can't hurt, only get better and we retain his rights. If he shows commitment and lights it up, then maybe things will change and he'll get a shot.

Personally I'd take Smith over Niskanen. Smith has more potential IMO, and I think Niskanen has been hyped tremendously because he's the best free agent D man. That's not to say he isn't good. But he's definitely not worth $6 million a year. Dollars aren't everything, but I think Smith has the potential to end up a better D man. And Kesler is good yes, but wouldn't you rather have both him and Helm? I know I would.

I agree. While he certainly brings a lot more to the table than just points, $6m + should be reserved for genuine 1st line players. But due to the nature of the thing, idiots are paying those guys $8m+. Soon we'll be in double digits.

But I'm not actually sure we are though if you do that. You're essentially making our D worse initially by removing Brendan Smith (who IMO, will have a better season next year and be more consistent and develop into the top 4 D man and possibly more that everyone expected) and you've also subtracted arguably our best defensive forward in Helm, who in spite of a few freak injuries, would have played alot more. We all talk about how speed is a good thing to have, so by removing Helm that helps us how exactly? And by signing Niskanen what are we actually gaining? Because all we'd be doing is overpaying for a pseudo-top4 defenseman who's going to strike it lucky on the free agent market because his offensive numbers jumped by a mediocre 11 points over his career best and he appears to be the best D man on the market. I don't want to be pedantic, but I most certainly didn't agree with you. I feel there is the talent within the organisation to win the cup if they allow the kids to develop the right way and supplement them with the right support at the right time so everyone can maximise their potential. That might be next March, it could be the following season, or even the one after.

It's not the fact that he doesn't have the guts nor desire, it's more the fact that the need isn't necessarily there right now to trade. I mean, why, if you had a bunch of really good prospects who are practically ready to contribute and have shown that they will form the basis of your core for the next decade potentially, would you then choose to trade a bunch of them away in a deal where you're not going to get full return on? It doesn't make sense, just to pacify a few fans and just to make this team marginally better, when really, what will make it better for longer is letting the young guys develop properly so that they are good and leaders of this team, and then having to knack to deal a for a few key pieces to put us over the top. Like we did in 02. Like we did in 08.

This contract is ridiculous IMO and no way does he deserve nearly $6million per year. It's no damn wonder this game is f******. Mid level players keep getting and demanding contracts like this push the scale even higher for the future, which will no doubt lead to another lockout. It's nuts.

Would you though? The Oilers are the laughing stock of the league and have been for some time. Take a look at their drafts since 09. The only good pick really they've got from the bunch has been Taylor Hall. Paajarvi was essentially a bust and he was drafted at 10. Nugent-Hopkins the jury is still out on, but it's not great if you ask me, especially for a number 1 pick. And Yakupov? What you're essentially trying to say is that we need more top 10 picks, when really do we actually? I think we've been able to acquire ample amounts of talent without drafting in the top 10 for years. And really, I don't want to see this team tank for a couple of years ala Colorado just to get a couple of kids that then wouldn't be able to help us for another 3 years or so because then we're looking at nearly half a decade, probably longer of mediocrity, when in reality right now if we let our current group of prospects grow and develop and add the right pieces we can be right in the hunt. Exactly. This organisation has consistently shown you don't need to tank to get good players. It's a lot more than that, and tbh I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at here

If we could get Iginla that would be great, as I think his style of play is definitely something we need to augment the talents on the roster. I still maintain that it would be great to get Alfie back in the lineup because he does bring a hell of a lot of good to this team, and if he's playing a reduced role he'll be healthier and able to contribute more. I think that was his downfall last season, he got overworked at the olympics, and then had to play more as guys started dropping like flies in the second half. Neither of these guys though will help us win the Cup right now, but what they would do is enable our kids to grow and learn at their own pace rather than being thrust straight in at the deep end ala Edmonton, which will pave the way for success a couple of years down the line.

You beat me to it.

The amount of negative opinions being spouted around here are incredible. We're not even in July yet and people are calling the season practically as good as dead and all because of what? Because we re-signed one of our best players from last season and we haven't addressed any of our issues yet. I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinions and that's fine, but when you're constantly thrashing out the same old line over and over, it gets a little tiresome. I know I know. KH sucks, Franzen is lazy, Howard will never be the elite goalie that we seem to somehow be entitled to just because we're the Red Wings, our D couldn't win the Calder Cup let alone the Stanley Cup, and we're got a forward group that's full of a bunch of washed up, old, warn out, injury prone veterans who can't even keep up with their own children on the ice anymore. We all know that success comes in cycles, and that good teams eventually get knocked down a peg a little and then have to build their way back up to the top again. This is precisely what is happening with the Wings right now, and with what we've seen last year that we've got good young kids in DeKeyser, Jurco, Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist and Mrazek all ready to contribute, why should we trade a bunch of em away when we're not going to get full return on them and when really, right now, they provide our team with energy, skill and desire to win. Alfie coming back helps because he's got a bomb of a shot for the PP, he's still got good wheels, and provides another leadership presence in the room. Those of you who are bashing him, do you really think that our situation would improve if you shoved some unready kid onto top line minutes for the entire season? Don't you think that would actually make our team worse and then we might be 'mediocre'? Don't get me wrong, I'm not oblivious to the fact that this team has holes, which are primarily on D. But at least for heavens sakes, give management a chance to address them before you start calling for their heads.

I think the general thing here though is, that if this team (including the kids now) can actually get fully healthy and perform like it should, then Alfie is that complementary player that every team needs to help them get the extra bit further. I don't think he'd consider going back to Ottawa after the debacle last summer. I think they've (Murray and Alfie) have burned that bridge. Obviously lots of people here are in favour, and lots of people are against this move. But at the end of the day, KH we've just brought back an affordable (relatively, pending the $$$) scoring winger that we are in desperate need of. As for the D first, I get that. But nothing really has started rolling yet. GMs can't start talking to FA's until wednesday, and the draft isn't until friday when all the GMs are in the same room for 2 days. If you have an opportunity to add something to your team I think you'd do it straight away regardless of the order you want to get things done in. There was a common theme amongst the old days when we could trade for guys like Hasek and Shanahan and that was the fact that there was no salary cap. We can't do that these days, because unlike before, you can't trade away all your top prospects for high end players and then plug your holes through free agency. There isn't the money, and all the loopholes have been closed. It is what it is today, you have to draft, develop, and supplement where you can without sacrificing your future.

probably just about any NHLer that ever made it. I think I'd be stoked.

But honestly, who does everyone think this 'magic FA signing' was going to be anyway? People are talking about the fact that they regret KH signing Alfie now because it'll inhibit any free agent forward signing, whilst forgetting about the fact that the priority is to sign or trade for a defenseman. But Stastny wouldn't help, because we're good at C. Moulson? Is going to get horrendously overpaid and is probably overrated anyway from playing several years on Tavares wing. Gaborik? Will 99% be re-signing in LA. Vanek? Going to get massively overpaid and is lazy. Iginla? Maybe but he's 36 and wants to stay in Boston. So what's the issue here? Does anyone really feel that signing one of those players mentioned above would put us over the top? Surely it's more important for KH to address the glaring need on D? Thus, bringing Alfie back solidifies our top 6, he had a good season last year and hopefully a healthy, productive season from Stephen Weiss will go along way towards having a productive season.

Right but we all know that free agency is like an overpriced market. You don't have to go there and you can buy your groceries somewhere else, but if you do go, you'll either get ripped off, or get something really good. In this case it's a win win as far as I'm concerned because what Alfie brings is a known commodity. His play last year was pretty solid and provided us with some extra offense, added to our veteran leadership and was important when guys started dropping like flies. While not in his prime, I think it's a safer bet having him for one more year at a cap friendly contract than get in a bidding war and end up paying $7 million for someone who we don't really need and will be overrated from day 1. This way, if Alfie hangs them up at the end of the year, Mantha will be primed and ready to go in his place. You can't win with all youth, just like you can't win with all veterans. What KH appears to be doing is trying to find the right balance. Alfie worked well for us last season, so why wouldn't you bring him back if its at the right price? He is, at the end of the day, just another piece in the puzzle. You can't win the cup based on signing one player, so why the f*** is everyone freaking out? Free agency hasn't even begun yet, but lots of people here are throwing their toys out the pram and all for what? Because we re-signed a good player? KH might pull off a surprise at the draft, or he might not. He might get Alfie signed, get a solid D man like Gilbert or Stralman and be happy at that, safe in the knowledge that we've got NHL ready youth right in our lineup that has gone through a season of experience last year and are ready to contribute more. You can't expect to be cup contenders every year, and rebuilding like this definitely takes time. It'll be worth the wait when it comes. I'd rather at least be competitive every season where we've got the chance to put it all together or add a couple of pieces here and there, rather than tear the entire thing down and start over.

Seriously, why are so many people down on the fact that Alfie is potentially returning? Yes he's old, but he's still good, and he won't cost us anything (minus some cap room). If he stays healthy for the entire year he's practically good for 20 goals

And he actually for the most part, played really well I thought last year. He was good on the PP, provided more leadership to the kids when Z and Dats were out, and was all around solid. Had a bit of a shocking last 1/4 of the year, but I guess that's to be expected when there's not much supporting cast around and you're 41. I'd happily take him back. Let's hope he comes in around $4m to give us soon room.

True. And do we really need a couple of high end goalscorers? If we can get 5-6 20 goal guys then we should be fine offensively IMO. Looking at Z, Datsyuk, Franzen, Gus, Tatar and one more….

I don't want to turn this thread into something else but it's only going to go one way and it's mainly because they tied the cap to league revenues. Until the league starts struggling financially, that's when we'll see salaries start to change (but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon). We're basically stuck in this escalation until there's another lockout to produce another rollback in salaries

This is a great class. Even though there's two former Avs they were both great players. Never grew tired of watching Blake's slapper and throwing his weight around (unless it was against the Wings of course), I really miss the hip check from the game today and he was one of the best. Congrats to Dom. I still remember how excited i was when we acquired him.