DatsyukownzU13

These announcers blow.

Side note: some prospect goalie for the Caps has 20 saves in the first period without allowing any goals... pretty insane.

So there is absolutely no Detroit feed? That's pretty weak.

Sounds like Leino's already making his presence known, I wish these canadien announcers would say who shot the puck though...

Ouch.. ripping on the attendance already.

http://www.cjad.com/ Edit: beat me to it.

Well, the game's not until 7:30 EST.

4-2 Wings. Leino, Hossa (2), Mursak Latendresse, Lang

4-2 Wings. Leino, Hossa (2), Mursak Latendresse, Lang

Couple articles from redwingscentral.com. More good talk about Leino, who was "good defensively" and also had a nice goal in the shootout. HDH was looking good as well. http://www.redwingscentral.com/redwingscor...910091626423498 The Wings are apparently taking on two teams for the preseason that will alternate games (Howe and Lindsay) which are listed here: http://www.redwingscentral.com/redwingscor...466306277673606 More on Fil's injury and other stuff: http://www.redwingscentral.com/redwingscor...090282649684435 Article about Hossa being the shooter of the HDH line: http://www.redwingscentral.com/redwingscor...208714537848433 Sorry to group this all in one thread, but I'm too lazy.

EDIT: That title makes a bit more sense.

I don't care about the future? So it's advantageous to keep an aging already pourous winger on our team versus a player that could debatably step in and be a better player with much more upside over the course of the next 5-10 years? If anything it sounds like you are being a bit narrow-minded. Fact of the matter is that getting rid of Sammy doesn't change much about this team at all. You would be replacing him with a player that could do what he does, but adds another dimension as well (i.e. Abdelkader - hitting, Leino - potential goalscoring/playmaking). It's pointless to argue with you though because you will never take a chance to actually consider some of the points I make.

Good to hear... if you don't mind, care to elaborate on that a little? I haven't seen much on him besides some fuzzy youtube videos and some redwingscentral articles so I would love to know a bit more about his style.

Just re-read the whole argument I already had, because every question you raise is answered (and no, it's not a matter of liking and not liking). The players you state that are less valuable are either players that get little to no ice time based on their role for being on the team, or they are veterans that have been on the Red Wings for a very long time. That basically is the complete 4th line. So 4th line aside, which player brings less to the table than Samuelsson? None. Two of those players also make less money than Sammy, but that's aside the point considering they are likely to get raises. What player turns the puck over as frequently as Samuelsson on the top 9, let alone the entire team? None. He has by far the worst puck control on our team (regulars, this is not considering McCarty or Downey). He also had the worst shooting percentage of all forwards for the regular season and second worst in the playoffs (4.4 and 6.3 respectively). Considered a physical reasonably sized player, he was outhit by all 4th-liners on the team averaging in at a whopping 1 hit per game for the season and playoffs combined (including Kopecky with far less games played). Leino, Helm and Abdelkader are all much better, more fluent skaters than Samuelsson and all have untapped offensive potential. We've already seen the maximum of Samuelsson's game and to consider 11 goals impressive when shooting the puck over 260 times while being on the ice over 16 minutes a night is probably a bit off. I don't mind you stating your opinion, but it's lame to call someone out for stating theirs. Continue on with your argument, but try to look at both sides of the debate before posting your post that states that your opinion is the only valid one.

I don't know if he is a big hitter, but it looks like he is absolutely laying out McCarty in this one... http://www.redwingscentral.com/camps/2008-...s/Sept22/19.php

I'm just messing with ya, man. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Sorry, but I stopped reading here.

I remember McCarty scoring a game winning goal against Philadelphia in the Cup Finals, so that makes him equally as good of a goal-scorer as Sameulsson since he did the same. Can we not stoop to that level of ignorance, please?

Word, the point of message boards is discussion. They wouldn't be fun if it wasn't for a healthy argument here and there.

Amen.

Firstly, one phrase was an obvious joke trying to get some laughs while the other was a realistic comment mid-argument. My stance on Samuelsson = he's OK at what he does (minus the frequent turnovers and unwarranted shots), but I don't think it's advantageous to the Wing's roster to keep him on it... therefore I wan't him traded for a prospect or a draft pick that would add to the future (as well as providing a spot to develop NHL-ready players that have the same skill-set, if not more than he does). Next, there is nothing to judge Leino off of besides his performance in Camp and his past success in the Finnish Elite League. Both (from the sounds of it) have been highly successful and promising. Leino and Abdelkader are both much more natural skaters than Samuelsson and I think both could develop into being much more capable 2nd or 3rd line players (and Abdelkader actually uses his god-given frame).

Ugh, was kinda hoping it would just end with that "agree to disagree", but I can't turn this down. First of all, never did I say that Sammy was not any good. Yes, I was at the game of the Stanley Cup Finals in which Sammy played exceptionally well and single-handedly got us a dubya. Yes, I'm aware that he has had an upper 20 goal season, that he plays the point (although I do think that others are more suited for this spot), etc... I totally agree with the concept of getting rid of Matlby, but do I think it would happen? No, Maltby is on the same level as Draper and unfortunately neither will leave the team until it's on their own terms (i.e. Chelios). If I had my choice between Maltby and Samuelsson for the 4th line, I would pick Samuelsson in a second. I just don't think it's realistically an option. On the other hand, I fully believe that Holland would consider moving Sammy, so that's why I kinda of rag on him more than others that could (deservedly) be moved to other teams. What is it you expect from the guy, a power forward, a sniper, an all-star? You're right, I don't expect any of that. But I most definitely think he is expendable and that a younger, more promising player with offensive upside could be put in that position and developed for future years when the present "power forward, sniper, all-star" is on the decline. For the record, I agree with most of what you say. A lot of it is a matter of opinion, though.

With that aforementioned lineup, I would really love to see Big Rig crack the lineup rather than Quincey in hopes that he could take Sammy's void at the point for the 2nd powerplay unit. I want to see that 100 mph slapshot in action.

Not saying that his +/- isn't impressive, but to say that his turnovers would lead to negatively affecting his +/- isn't always the case. Keep in mind, he has world-class defenseman and wingers playing around and behind him. I'm not claiming that his turnovers have all led to goals and no I didn't go searching to remember that particular instance, it was one of many. With that logic, how could you not assume that given his turnovers that his +/- could not have been 40 had he not turned it over so much. The statistic of +/- can be terribly misunderstood given a variety of circumstance (take it for what it was... but in about 21 or 22 games with Pittsburgh, Sammy was a -21 I believe). There's a reason people usually end up with a better +/- on a good team and that alone proves why the stat is a little bit vague. With all that said, this could go on forever. Let's just agree to disagree.

Yep, from this very site: http://www.letsgowings.com/index.php/Stanl...Game-4-win.html