Zetts

I agree, but finding a real heavyweight who can play well is pretty difficult. That's why personally I'd give up a bit of the heavyweight status for a bit more playing ability. Then the player can get more ice time, and overall probably make more of an impact.

Anyone on the Edmonton Oilers roster. Notable mentions go to Kane and Crosby.

Maybe they want defensive specialists/role players on their fourth line. Because if Hudler couldn't crack the top two lines on the Wings, he's not doing it on an Olympic team.

I don't think the -3 argument is really the best one, but May certainly has played his role well. Glad to have him here. I do wish that when we went after enforcers, we were going after some younger players who might also have more upside (although will admittedly stay in the bottom two lines). Particularly, players such as Brad Winchester come to mind. It's just frustrating seeing players like this come in and then leave due to retirement (Dallas Drake being another example).

I'd be satisfied with a finished check. I know the NHL's stat for hitting isn't the best, but you can still get a general idea of how much a guy hits with it. Ville Leino has 9 hits in 35 games, having played 490 minutes and 50 seconds on the ice. Ugh. Edit: For the sake of comparison: Franzen, who is criticized for being soft here, has 11 hits in 3 games. Meech has the same number of hits a Leino, but in only 23 games, and with 277:21 TOI. Sure Leino shouldn't be running people over, but a certain compete level is always nice.

For a second I thought Eaves was a healthy scratch and almost threw up. Get better soon!

I never really discussed that one way or the other, so thankfully I'm not out of my mind. And no, his numbers aren't dreadful this season. They're certainly not good enough, but they're not terrible. My comment was more about his clear lack of professionalism than skill level. Admitting he wasn't motivated for a whole season and then saying he knows better than his coach (who is one of the best coaches in the league regardless of what people here think) is not the attitude I want from a moderately skilled goaltender who was supposed to be the guy we could rely on a bit more to get through this season. Edit: To further add to this getting more starts thing that you've thrown in here: Have you ever heard goalies who don't play in a while say that they've just got to be ready for when they do play? They say it a lot. It's how backups keep their jobs. And that's the case with Osgood right now. Obviously it would be easier for him with more consecutive starts. But the fact remains, as a professional, he's got to get ready for what he's given. A true starter would seize the opportunity in any game they're given.

I hate when people say that certain hits occur because of a lack of respect. But if there was ever an example of a complete lack of respect for another player, that was it.

Osgood is the only supposed future Hall of Fame goalie I've ever heard of that needs this much "motivation" and this much time to "get going". All goalies have blips in play, but most of those "blips" don't last an entire season (last year) and to a lesser, but still significant extent, this entire season to date. The fact that he said this about Babcock doesn't seem too professional to me. In fact, over the past couple of years, he really hasn't been acting like a motivated professional. The fact that he couldn't get motivated for a whole season last year? And now talking like this? I appreciate everything he's done for the organization, but these things still make me lose respect for him. I love what he does for the playoffs, but there should not be this much of a struggle with him every regular season. Maybe he's not so low-maintenance anymore. Edit: And, for the record I'm not talking in comparison to Jimmy Howard. He's not what this conversation is about. I don't care who's played what teams. Fact is, as a supposed "elite" goaltender, Osgood shouldn't suffer against the good teams. His numbers simply aren't good enough, whether you choose to look at Howard or not. Just to further clarify as well, I'm not suggesting that we trade Osgood. Or that he retires. Just that he thinks about this a little more and gets his act together.

Seems he thinks he should be on the Olympic team. http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/news/news...html?cid=rsstsn

And Babcock is just an irrational dochebag for not giving Hudler enough time on the top two lines because he clearly would have excelled there?

Don't worry, I'm sure this discussion won't last long. It'll turn into an enforcer thread. Or maybe one about goaltending once someone suggests that Osgood is the player we clone.

The lines haven't always been the same in the playoffs. A few years back, Datsyuk wasn't playing with Holmstrom. And in 2008, Dastyuk, Zetterberg and Holmstrom were all together for a good chunk of the playoffs. There's no way to pin this one on the best net-front player in the league Jake. Zetterberg is better in the playoffs.

Don't forget that Zetterberg actually shows up for the playoffs more often though. Edit: Damn, Carman beat me to it.

You forget this board's ridiculous reaction to the 1.2 million, 40-45 point producing Samuelsson.

Agreed. Where would we be without him?

Leino has the potential to be good whereas I don't think many people think that of Kopecky (aside from Chicago Blackhawks management apparently). Who sucks more at the moment though? Easily Leino. Neither scores, but at least Kopecky didn't score while taking fourth line minutes. And at least he pretended to hit people.

Exactly. Sign #1 that there's a huge problem: fans start sounding like St. Louis Blues fans.

I don't know about "much" better. I'd be shocked if he got 50+ points in a season. There hasn't been much to suggest he'll be a huge scorer. Edit: Obviously outside of some decent AHL scoring. But as we've all seen, scoring in the AHL doesn't necessarily mean that much.

I sure hope our management wasn't expecting big numbers from them. Helm has always been projected as a third or fourth liner, and while Abs may develop a little more offense some day, there was no reason to expect him to be putting up big numbers now. Heck, he wasn't even supposed to be on the team, so his projected point total would have been a whopping 0.

Meh, bad news on the injury front has become the norm for the Wings. I'd be more surprised if he'd come back on schedule.

I don't see how anyone could lose confidence in Osgood. Remeber last season? He was infinitely worse last season and was still good for the playoffs. The reality is, he's not a very good regular season goalie. The fact that he's so much better in the playoffs, to me, suggests a lack of professionalism. There's no reason he shouldn't play at least average in the regular season if he can be that good in the playoffs. Ultimately though, he's good in the playoffs, when it matters, and he's cheap. Obviously we need him more this year, but it's still not a disappointment how he's played. I was stuck between Datsyuk and Leino. Datsyuk has been god-awful offensively, which is how we most need him right now (with the exception of the game against Dallas). Ultimately though, I had to go for Leino. Not only is he sucking, but he doesn't look like he's trying. Robert freaking Lang finished more checks than this guy. He's completely uninvolved. Yes, he's a rookie, so hopefully he will improve, but this is still nowhere near what I expected, particularly given how good he was in his limited time last year. Edit: And as for Kovalchuk, as has been mentioned, it's probably not realistic. But hell, I'd be supportive of it happening. Anyone not named Zetterberg, Dastyuk or Lidstrom can go if we could get this guy (and were able to sign him to an extension).

Haha, that would be awesome, he'd be like the little retarded kid. The play is dead, everyone is at center ice brawling, and Leino skates down the ice obliviously and shoots it into an empty net. Then, maybe he jumps into the glass like Ovechkin to celebrate.

Oh, this can't go anywhere good. The main difference (if this hasn't been mentioned, I don't know), is that McCarty never drove the guy's face straight into the ice. Personally, I always felt kind of bad for Bertuzzi about this. What he did was a cheap shot, but punching someone in the back of the head, while a cheap shot, would not get him this much notoriety. Similar sucker punches have happened with several other players and everyone just forgets about it. It seemed like an accident when he fell on top of Moore, driving his face into the ice. A cheap shot that went wrong pretty much.

You know, I think the real turning point was when Holmstrom scored that goal at the beginning of the 3rd period against the Ducks when we'd been down 2-0. Really got some life into the team, and we went on to win a big game against one of our rivals. I put all of this success on Tomas Holmstrom. All of it.