Zetts

I'd probably take Sillinger. Possibly Neil, depending on our cap situation. No to Kotalik and a screaming no to Afinogenov. I'd rather have Robert Lang playing every forward position than see Afinogenov in the winged wheel.

I want to make sure I’m clear here, because this discussion is jumping around a bit. So, essentially, what I’ve gotten from this is that you want: Hudler and Hossa Whereas I would want: Stuart, Filppula, Lebda and Samuelsson If that’s the case, I think we’ll just have to disagree. I’d take defensive depth and respectable offense over absolutely no defensive depth and offense with questions about playoff performance any day. Looks like our two sets would likely have a nearly identical cap hit too. And you still need other players to fill roster spots.

Cap space is an issue, yes, but we weren't exactly swimming in cap space this past season either. As far as Lebda or Meech being traded, I feel that's pretty unlikely. First, Lilja might not be back right away. But if he is, Lebda and Lilja (and possibly sometimes Ericsson) can rotate. It's what happened this past year with Meech/Lilja/Lebda/Chelios at varying times. It's not ideal, but we want depth on the back end. And with the injuries we seem to sustain it won't be an issue for long, especially since Meech can apparently play forward, despite really sucking at it. And I'd rather have Lebda and Samuelsson over Hudler. I'm aware that Hudler is MUCH more skilled than either of them, but with cap concerns, sometimes you're forced to go with quantity of players over quality. Besides, if Hudler's gone, we at least get some compensation in draft picks. Putting anything on Kindl is risky. The argument of him being better than Quincey is pretty iffy. He improved from what I belive was a league worst -34 to... -14. Sorry, but there's a reason he's 9th on our depth chart, and he's not ready to move up from anything I've heard.

Datsyuk had an amazing season. Pretty much identical to the season before actually. He is very effective with his time, and yes he does kill penalties more than the other two. But this: is what I disagree with. I'm sorry, but really, for the playoffs Datsyuk 98 games, 63 points 0.64 points/game Ovechkin 21 games, 30 points 1.43 points/game Malkin 49 games, 62 points 1.27 points/game That's an astronomical difference when it matters most. I hate projections, as far as "if Datsyuk had more time...". Points do not go up linearly with ice time. Even if they did, for the playoffs, there's no chance he's making up that sort of point differential. As far as his superior defensive play, it really becomes entirely subjective. Is he that much better than the other two defensively to make up for that sort of point differential? Presumably if OV and Malkin were only scoring on the powerplay and were weak defensively, their +/- wouldn't be great. However, as I've already shown, Malkin's +/- per game is similar, and Ovechkin blows them both out of the water. I love Datsyuk, but there's a reason you don't hear the Joe chanting "MVP!" for him. He's really really good, but he doesn't control games as often or as fully as the other two. Edit: egroen, I wrote that before I saw your last post. Agreed on those comments.

I was just thinking of that. Whoever came up with that better have been fired. And flogged.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, Datsyuk is MUCH better defensively, as his two Selkes show. But this thread was created about offense. I figured I'd look up the +/- bit though, so lets go with that argument for a moment. Admittedly, +/- per game is a bit of a contrived stat, but you have to take into account the number of games played somehow. So, again, playoffs: Datsyuk: 98 games, +19 0.19/game Malkin: 49 games, +5 0.10/game Ovechkin: 21 games, +9 0.43/game I don't really want to make this argument AGAINST one of my favourite players, but we have to be realistic. Ovechkin still has Datsyuk beat in both categories. As for Malkin, I don't think that his +/- which is worse by 0.09 drags him down that much when he's pretty much double Datsyuk's points per game. (Remember, power play goals don't affect +/-, so Malkin's inferior +/- doesn't necessarily mean he was on the ice for more goals against, just perhaps that a couple more of his points came on the powerplay).

I really don't want to be the one to do this, but it has to be said. Playoffs Datsyuk 98 games, 63 points 0.64 points/game Ovechkin 21 games, 30 points 1.43 points/game Malkin 49 games, 62 points 1.27 points/game Datsyuk is amazing, and one of my favorite players, I'm not hating on him. But no, he is not better than Malkin or Ovechkin (offensively anyways, since that's what this thread is about).

You know what still makes me laugh? The Penguins have had ridiculously high draft picks, and they've still screwed it up. (Except for obviously Crosby and Malkin, but heck I could have drafted them.) In 2003 they passed over Eric Staal for Fleury. In 2006 they passed over Toews for Jordan Staal. I mean, I know drafting can be difficult, but usually with picks that high (those were #1 and #2 picks), teams can get it right. Fleury and J. Staal are good players, but would ANYONE take them over those other two? Their front office has made some good decisions too, but with stupidity like that...? *Edit: Shero was there for 2006, not 2003, but I don't recall ever hearing about a complete overhaul of their scouting staff, so I'm guessing it's been similar throughout.

Dear...god. Please, NO.

Agreed, I'm a rabid Wings fan - I don't think I could cheer for another team. However, I do watch other hockey, and if there isn't a Wings game and I see a Caps game on, that's the one I'm watching. They're absolutely electric. Fun hockey to watch.

A dynasty...are you KIDDING? This Penguins team reminds me more of the 2006 Hurricanes than the dynasty Oilers/Islanders. Yes, the Penguins managed to do something back to back years, but this year it really was by "finding a way to win". Impressive, yes, but nothing that comes close to a true dynasty unless they add some big pieces. Unless lesser players like Talbot develop the skills of Glen Anderson, the Penguins, while they might remain one of the better teams in the league, will NOT be a dynasty.

Yet he had no problems with dealing for Pronger in Anaheim... Burke's probably just bitter because he found out that Toronto wasn't a team Heatley would go to. If I recall correctly, Pronger actually said that he wanted to leave Edmonton through the media - he never contacted Kevin Lowe at all at the time.

Sorry, I should have been more clear about Lilja. I'm pressuming that he WON'T be back, definitely not for the start of the year, although likely at some point mid-season based on this. After missing that much hockey, as good as he was, I think it's pretty unclear as to how good he'll be. Let's say he does come back and is fine though. In 07 two of our top 4 were injured, and our defense had all sorts of health problems this year. It fair to say that we probably WILL run into injury problems again. I still prefer a stronger defense. I think Holland has generally shown his preference for depth on defense over offense too. And my preferred roster would be Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard As a side note, this obviously depends on cap space, which I'm somewhat confused on. I've repeatedly heard the Wings have 4-5 million, although if the cap stays the same, according to redwingscentral we have just under 2.5. Aside from redwingscentral including Abdelkader's salary, I'm unclear as to where the extra cap space is coming from.

Lidstrom Rafalski Kronwall Ericsson Lebda Lilja (IF he's healthy) Meech That would get ugly pretty quickly if we got any injuries in the playoffs. There's no depth if we start trading d-men, since we're probably losing Chelios too. The only way they can even consider trading Stuart is if they KNOW that Lilja will be healthy, and even then it's a stretch. Any injury to the top 4, and all of a sudden Lebda's playing big minutes and your third pair is what...Meech and Kindl? Any sort of UFA signing to replace Stuart would obviously be for a very low salary defenseman since the whole point of the trade to get rid of salary. So then the only option wouuld by a Cory Cross-type player. That doesn't really make me feel much better.