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I can't believe people are complaining about organ music at a hockey game. It beats the hell out of the same Red Wings sound track they've been playing since I was 10 years old. If they were to get a real, old school pipe organ, that would be the best. A good pipe organ at church can shake you, you can feel it. I think it would be a massive upgrade; the Red Wings are known as Old Time Hockey, and an organ just adds to it. But.....I can see where playing it during every single break in play would get old too. I don't think there needs to be music at all during every single break in play. Let the fans start a cheer on their own once in a while instead of drowning them out. New Olympia Stadium

I've actually never been so excited about the Red Wings off season moves. Now, I know that dosen't make any sense because they haven't done anything but lose players to FA so far. But I'm ready to see some new blood, because those guys from GR are ready. There is no reason for these talented players to languish in the minors any longer. Its time for Leino, Abdelkader, and especially Darren Helm to play every night. Darren Helm is a fan favorite the Wings need. Abdelkader is a home grown talent and Spartan hero; maybe he'll be for us what Neal Broten was in Minnesota. I hope they play the MSU fight song for every one of the 10-15 goals he is going to score at home this year. Jimmy Howard will be just fine too, he just needs more than 3 games per year to prove himself. This is exactly what I was hoping would happen going into the offseason, and they will be a 1 or 2 seed in the West next year, just like always. And for God sake, STOP RIPPING OZZY. He is a great goalie, he just needs a wake up call occasionally. New Olympia Stadium

I think the Red Wings should have a couple ultimate goals in the design of this arena. First of all, can I look at a picture of this building and instantly know what it is and where I am without being told? In other words, is it a landmark? This arena needs to be a landmark. Wrigley Field, Madison Square Garden, the LA Coliseum and even the new Sprint Center in Kansas City, these are all landmarks, and an arena like that which I have illustrated would be instantly recognizable by hockey fans. As such, I think this building would be set apart from the rest as our nation's hockey arena in effect. If I'm looking at a picture of the Nationwide Arena in Columbus, OH, how do I know what it is? I've heard its nice, but it looks like another glass, steel, and concrete box just like most of the other new NHL buildings. A New Olympia Stadium would represent hockey in America ahead of any other arena. Hockey fans would want to make a special trip to a building like this, just like Wrigley Field. And no other city could pull off a building like this, because either they already have theirs or they don't have any historical context to build upon. Most people like this idea, but the biggest criticism I get is that this building isn't original and Detroit needs something new, not a rehash. But from an architectural standpoint, the easiest thing to do would be to try and build the fanciest, most cutting edge building that looks a little different but mostly the same as every other arena. If the Red Wings don't build an arena like just like this, that is fine by me (though I hope they do). But heres hoping that what they do build is a landmark and not another Jobing.com or Nationwide Arena. New Olympia Stadium

I like the suggestions about putting the arena along Grand River Avenue and making the enterance more visible. If I have some time, I may rethink the location and draw up an alternate site plan. I don't like the idea of going way over 20,000 seats. The updated final plan has a capacity of 20,021, which is 45 less than the Joe. The fact is that as great as the Wings are, they haven't sold out every game the past two years, and building a 30,000 seat arena to have a boat load of $20 seats would likely backfire. The arena would become larger and much more expensive to offset the inclusion of a lot a cheap seats that won't generate as much revenue, because as you build bigger, you have to build higher and wider and the costs for every extra seat become disproportionately higher. That is a big reason that newer arenas have rarely exceeded 20,000 seats. Also, there is the remote possibility that God forbid the Wings someday aren't going to be as good. Then you have a 30,000 seat arena drawing 13-15,000 a game. New Olympia Stadium

I wish I could, but I don't know CAD software well enough yet to do a good 3-D model.

I'm glad someone likes my plan, I've had a few people link to it in this forum. I updated the plan once and for all (including a little higher capacity) and even mailed a copy to Olympia Entertainment. They replied that they weren't going to commit to it at this time. I wasn't exactly expecting them to look at an unsolicited 21 page document from someone they've never heard of and break ground next week. I thought maybe they could take a look at the document and get some ideas from it and say "we appreciate your interest and will consider some of your ideas". Anyway, the biggest negative response I get is regarding obstructed view seats and poles. I contend that by creating less than 200 obstructed view seats under the balcony by putting a few support poles in at the ends like at the Old Olympia, one can tighten the entire arena up and bring the balcony really close to the ice. That's the big reason places like Boston Garden and especially Chicago Stadium were so loud, all the seating levels were on top of each other. Imagine a 20,000 seat arena with the balconies right on top of the ice! It's good to hear your comments; the final updated word document can be found at this link Thanks, TS New Olympia Stadium

This sounds pretty off the wall, but seeing this is more or less a TV production anyway, why not 9 A.M. on the Ice Sheet at 30 Rockefeller Plaza in New York, right after the Today Show. The whole show could be a build up to the game outside. The players would probably not find it cool. But there might be a channel surfing quality to this. I think a 70 year old suburban grandmother who'd never heard of Wayne Gretzky would stop and watch, wondering what the hell was going on.

I have to listen to ESPN Radio at work, which constantly reminds me about how the NHL is dying (or already dead). But the NHL leads the NBA (which is alive and well, of course) in attendance per game in the '08-'09 season. The NHL per game attendance so far this season is 17,322 through Sunday, compared to 17,283 for the NBA. If the leagues finish out like this, this will be the first time since the 1987-88 season that the NHL out draws the NBA. And by the way, the Pistons' 5 year sellout streak ended last week, so they may soon be finally feeling the economy the way the Wings have the last two years.

Seattle, Washington - Definitely #1. This is a growing market of 3.5 million that the NBA just walked away from. GET A TEAM IN THERE NOW before the NBA goes back. They do not have to play in the Key Arena, the Tacoma Dome seat 16,000 for hockey. It is not an ideal arena, but it would pass for a year or two with no obstructed view, while a new arena is built. Seattle has hockey history, people forget that Seattle has its name on the Stanley Cup. Hamilton, Ontario - #2. Second largest city in Ontario with plenty of hockey love and an arena that could host the NHL tommorrow but would need some renovation for increased revenue in the future. Quebec City, Quebec - #3. The Nordiques didn't leave because of lack of fan support. The Colisee was at 94% capacity when they left for Colorado; they just had an old arena with no suites. I don't understand why everybody thinks Winnipeg would get a team over Quebec. The Jets were playing in front of 4,000 empty seats a night before they left. Milwaukee, WI - #4. Any state that can sell out 15,000 seats for college hockey deserves an NHL team. The Bradley Center could host the NHL tommorrow, that is a nice building with plenty of suites, better than Joe Louis Arena for sure. Hartford, CT - #5. Hartford wants the NHL back badly and there is a population base in the region to support the NHL. I think when the Islanders move, that may be a destination to look at.

This is easy. Make the format the way it used to be. Stanley Cup Champion hosts and plays the All-Stars from the rest of the league. O.K., so the Wings would be playing the All-Stars from the other 29 teams. So what. The 20 best players in the league against the defending champs that have been playing together for the whole year. I like our chances. When they did this format in the '50's and '60's, the host team won about 1/3 of the games. And how appropriate for hockey would it be if every player on the Stanley Cup Champs was recognized as an all-star as well. And what a reward it would be for the city of the winning team. And think about what a home-ice atmosphere the Wings would have had at the Joe this year if this were such a format.

Of the convention centers I've been to (Las Vegas, Louisville, Indianapolis, Grand Rapids, and Salt Lake City), Cobo is worse than any of them, and its not close. It needs to be expanded both over the Cobo Arena site and the Joe Louis Arena site, otherwise all the new hotel rooms in downtown are going to sit empty, now that Detroit actually has them. Mr. Ilitch has a GREAT financial deal in place with the city, and probably announce anything on the arena front until the economic situation improves, which probably excludes 2009. I think we will live with the Joe for a while, but it eventually needs to go for the good of the city. Here's what the Wings should build.

The All-Star game needs to change, though I don't think it should be the All-Star game. I think the All-Star game should go back to the way it used to be; which was the Stanley Cup Champion hosting the game and playing an All-Star team comprised of the rest of the league. So this year, the Red Wings would be hosting the All-Star game at the Joe, and playing the 20 best players in the rest of the league. Anyone interested in that game? It sounds crazy, but it would be more competitive than it seems, you would have a team that has played with each other all year vs. a team of the best players but that has never played with each other. Back in the day when they used this format, the All-Stars won about 2/3 of the time, and the Cup champions (on home ice) won about 1/3 of the time. And that means every player on the defending cup champions is an All-Star, which I think is a nice idea.

64 degrees for a high today in Chicago with rain and 40 degree temps to follow, this Winter Classic is looking iffy for New Years Day. They might have to start over again with the ice.

In my opinion, Chicago Stadium was probably the best NHL arena ever. It was loud, it had a pretty big capacity (17,000 +), had lots of overhangs with few obstructions, and had the big organ. Maple Leaf Gardens is obviously historic and unique, but perhaps a little overrated; the upper seating along the side boards was a long way from the ice. You may have already seen this Mr. Vandelay, but you might want to check out the New Olympia Stadium plan, I think its right up your alley.

At the end of play Monday, Chris Osgood was tied for worst save percentage of any goaltender in the NHL. The Red Wings are giving up the sixth most goals against in the league (3.1), while allowing the third least shots in the league (27). By the numbers, this is not a defensive problem; this is a goaltending problem. Ty Conklin's numbers are better, but certainly not among the top half of NHL goalies. These are not regular season problems, but they are playoff problems if Osgood doesn't turn it around. We learned last year that you play the goalie who is playing best at the time. Right now, that is Conklin. The Wings don't have to demote Osgood now, but if these numbers are similar in March, I'd be making Conklin my #1 goalie.

1. vs. Philadelphia Flyers in '97 Stanley Cup Finals 2. St. Louis Blues vs. Calgary Flames in '86 Playoffs 3. gets the Stanley Cup in '94 4. Bobby Orr goal wins the 1971 Stanley Cup 5. NHL Expands to 12 teams in 1968

The Eastern Conference arguement is a selfish, short-sighted arguement. Somebody has to travel West, who else would it be right now? The Wings have had great rivalries with the Blues and Blackhawks in the past, why give that up? If the Blackhawks ever get good (and they will), why wouldn't you want to be in that division. Joshy207 hit the nail on the head, make 4 divisions (or conferences), whatever you prefer. Here is how I would set them up. NORTHERN New York Rangers New York Islanders New Jersey Devils Boston Bruins Toronto Maple Leafs Ottawa Senators Montreal Canadians Buffalo Sabres EASTERN Philadelphia Flyers Pittsburgh Penguins Atlanta Thrashers Washington Capitals Florida Panthers Tampa Bay Lightning Carolina Hurricanes CENTRAL Detroit Red Wings Chicago Blackhawks St. Louis Blues Minnesota Wild Columbus Blue Jackets Nashville Predators Dallas Stars WESTERN Los Angles Kings Anaheim Ducks San Jose Sharks Arizona Coyotes Colorado Avalanche Vancouver Canucks Edmonton Oilers Calgary Flames Each team plays everybody in their division/conference 5 or 6 times depending on whether there are 7 or 8 teams in it. That makes 35 or 36 conference games. Then every other team in the league twice, making 44 or 46 games depending on your conference. That makes an 80 game schedule for Northern and Western teams and 81 for Central and Eastern Teams. Schedule a few extra interconference games to fill out the 82 game schedule. It's so simple, why don't they do this? No team would have anybody in their division/conference more than one time zone away; this is much better for the Wings. Then take the top four teams in each conference and run the playoff as Joshy207 suggests and have a Stanley Cup Semifinals and Finals. As for expansion/move sites, how have we not discussed Seattle at greater length? The NBA is going to leave Seattle, lets go in and cherry pick that huge market. Seattle has a Stanley Cup Championship already, remember? They might make a great hockey market. And what about Milwaukee? Wisconsin is PACKED with hockey fans. They consistantly sell out a 15,000 seat arena in MADISON for COLLEGE HOCKEY! Quebec is the best of the three expansion/move possibilites in Canada (Winnipeg and Hamilton). Quebec was averaging about 94% capacity crowds back in '95 when they decided to move due to the weak loonie/old arena. Winnipeg is too small and the Jets were not very successful in the NHL, at the gate or in the standings, despite what the revisionist Canadian hockey historians will tell you. New Olympia Stadium

Jimmy Howard Statistics Season Team Lge GP GAA W L T Pct 2001-02 U.S. Jr. National Team USHL 8 1.98 4 3 0 0.927 2002-03 U. of Maine NCAA 21 2.45 14 6 0 0.916 2003-04 U. of Maine NCAA 22 1.19 14 4 3 0.956 2004-05 U. of Maine NCAA 39 1.92 19 13 7 0.924 2005-06 Detroit Red Wings NHL 4 2.99 1 2 0 0.904 2005-06 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 38 2.58 27 6 2 0.91 2006-07 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 49 2.7 21 21 3 0.911 2007-08 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 54 2.83 21 28 2 0.907 2007-08 Detroit Red Wings NHL 4 2.13 0 2 0 0.926 Look, the guy has a great history, and he's not going to be the #1 goalie immediately. His college stats are as good as Ryan Miller. So he's 1-4 all time in 8 games. Ozzie and Dom have had worse stretches than that. He'll be fine, he's paid his dues, make him the #2 goalie. New Olympia Stadium

On a scale of 0-10, how far into the negative do you rate Drew Sharp's pitiful columns? I'll say -52 New Olympia Stadium

Look at the goals in '92-'93! 4.4 goals per game; that must have been some fun hockey to watch! New Olympia Stadium

The website www.seats3d.com is a good resource to see how other arenas are set up and priced compared to the Red Wings. I'll have to say, while Red Wings tickets certainly aren't a bargain, there aren't many bargains with other teams either. Check out prices for the Av's; they are brutal! Lower bowl seating in other arenas are comparable, though there appear to be more seats in the >$40 range in many arenas. As for a new arena, again with the shameless plug for the New Olympia Stadium plan.

Speaking of people who make me puke, Doc and Edzo are next! (I actually don't mind doc, but that was a joke)

Again, McGuire is a feminine hygine product. Seriously, how is he better than Barry Melrose? I realize Melrose is about as popular as Micheal Jackson on these forums, but I'm trying to figure out how he could be worse the Pierre? Seriously, Pang would be much better. He is also short and annoying, but not nearly as grating and with a higher IQ, both hockey and otherwise.

I'm a huge MSU fan, I saw Ryan Miller in goal for two year and I was offended to hear anyone say any college goaltender was any better than Ryan Miller. Then I looked up Jimmy Howard's numbers for Maine in 2003-04. Wow. 1.19 GAA, .956 SV%. His numbers are actually better than Miller in 2001 (it's kind of splitting hairs, both unbelievable). A goalie with those numbers in college and who has toiled in GR so long has got to be your go to guy as soon as Hasek retires. I love the idea up picking up Miller, but Jimmy Howard has earned his chance with the Wings. Also, as a State fan, I'm loving Abdelkader and McCarty on the same line! NCAA Goalie Records

As I said in a previous thread, Pierre is a feminine hygiene product. He needs to be replaced quickly. Isn't there anybody better for NBC to hire? I think Pierre's price was right; NBC is probably doing their hockey programming on a shoestring (compared to the CBC) and needs warm talking heads.