Drake_Marcus

You'd be less confident too if you went from playing with the 2nd best defenseman in the history of the NHL to Brett Lebda.

I disagree that his playing well with Lidstrom means he's worse than he looked (that only really works if you don't watch the game and see what he does with the puck and how he deals with opposing forwards). Sure Lidstrom would make him look better on the surface, but it's the plays Ericsson made with the puck and the plays he made when a forward with the puck challenged him that made him look great in the playoffs, not his +/-. Lidstrom didn't make Ericsson make better defensive plays, he just helped mask any rookie mistakes he'd make. Rookie mistakes shouldn't be confused with a lack of skill or talent. All rookie defensemen make rookie mistakes-- it's a very, very hard position to play as a rookie. There's a huge leap defensively when you go from the AHL to NHL. Plus it should be noted that Ericsson didn't always play with Lids during the playoffs. He did when Rafalski was hurt, but once Rafi came back he was paired with Lids the majority of the time (though he got switched out at some points when he was playing poorly). I do like your pairings, though. I like that they minimize the defensive issues and that they give both of the key young d-men a shot at learning directly from Lidstrom.

Once again you spout off negative bulls*** without knowing the full story. Ericsson: -->has the 3rd most points on the entire team. -->is 1st in defensive points on the team (with Rafalski tied in total points but has fewer goals). -->is tied for 2nd on the team in goals scored. -->is tied for 3rd in points for defensive rookies -->is tied for 2nd in goals for defensive rookies -->is tied for 9th in points for all rookies -->is tied for 5th in goals for all rookies -->is 3rd in hits for defensemen on the Wings -->is 3rd in blocked shots on the Wings -->is 5th in give-aways for defensemen on the Wings (6 give-aways in 9 games, next guy is Rafalski with 7) Yeah, he has the worst +/- but Stuart is -2 and Kronwall is -3. Lebda is -4 in 6 games. Ericsson is a frigging rookie d-man. If you expected him to be among the best on the team in +/- you obviously don't understand what happens when rookie d-men enter the NHL. Your rookie d-man is expected to be last in +/- on the back end. Pair him up with a guy like Lebda who looks like a frigging rookie himself and you should expect a bad pairing. Rookie defensemen need a strong partner to guide them and help minimize the impact of their mistakes as they adjust to the NHL game. Calling him overrated is retarded. We'll see what his +/- looks like in a few years when he's adjusted to the NHL game. But right now he's leading the defense in points while only playing 16 mins a game. Rafalski plays 23 mins (with Lidstrom), Kronwall plays 22 mins and Nick plays 24.5 mins a night. Ericsson is providing more offense than all of them and he's providing a superior points per minute played. Right now the Wings are sub-.500. We've won only a THIRD of the games played. If you think a rookie d-man on a team that loses two thirds of the games they play, regardless of how talented he is, is going to have a good +/- you're ridiculous. Edit: And that last point on the list-- 5th in give-aways means he has the 5th fewest give-aways, not that he's giving the puck away the 2nd most on the back end.

I think the problem is he never lived through that era and you did, so he's got a skewed perspective on fan suffering.

Another astute response to Malik's diatribe. I agree 100% Carman.

This.

I agree 100%. On the Wings Ericsson should be the #6 defenseman, simply because our D should never be outplayed by a rookie, regardless of how talented he is. The problem is that Ericsson is leading the Wings in defensive scoring with 2 goals and 3 assists (Rafalski has 1 goal and 4 assists, so he's right behind him). Lidstrom and Kronwall have no business being outscored by a rookie. Again, we all know that Lids will be at the top of the pile at the end of the season, with Rafalski and Kronwall right behind him, I'm just pointing out one more symptom of the problem right now. They definitely should keep Ericsson with a veteran out there-- preferably Lidstrom or Kronwall, although ideally they'd rotate Ericsson in with Lidstrom for E's full mins each night and play Kronwall with Lids for the rest of Lidstrom's time out there. Keeping Ericsson with Lidstrom minimizes the impact of rookie mistakes. Putting Ericsson with Lebda, a guy who makes worse defensive gaffs out there and constantly gets beat for pucks, amplifies his defensive mistakes because suddenly Jonathan is the defensive anchor on that pair and not the kid.

Joey McDonald was never the top goaltender in the Wings' system, and at no point was he ever projected as more than a solid backup. Howard's been considered a blue-chip prospect for 4 years now and he's made the Hockey News' top 100 prospects list on a regular basis since he started in the AHL. Howard was the top prospect in the Wings' system for 2 of the last 4 years. Howard was an AHL all-star twice in his four years down there. Joey? Zero. Howard was the Griffins #1 goalie every single year he played in the AHL. Joey? None. His best stretch was when he split the games with Howard. To say Howard's in the same class as Joey McDonald shows some serious ignorance when it comes to the Wings' prospect system. Even if Howard ends up a bust it won't be a case of people here overrating him, it will be a case of his not living up to his own potential.

I wasn't one of his biggest critics. I've always been in the middle of the road when it comes to Howard.

People aren't overrating Leino. He started the season as a Calder candiadate in most hockey writers' minds and he was a point per game player in the preseason. He started out very strong with 2 goals in his first 3 games, but he's slumped recently along with the rest of the team. If you watch the games he's still one of our best offensive players night in and night out. Leino has one less assist than Filppula despite playing less than 13 mins a night. Other than that he's got the same offensive output as Val. Leino still has more goals than Dats and Z combined. He's hardly playing poorly in comparison to the rest of the team. People aren't high on Leino because he scored one good goal against the Caps. They're high on him because he had 5 goals and 4 assists in 13 NHL games last season. They're high on him because he lead the Griffs in scoring while only playing a bit more than 60 games. They're high on him because he lead the AHL in playoff scoring through the first two rounds of the playoffs and scored at over 2 points per game in the first round of their playoffs. They're high on him because he was among the best players on the team in the Preseason with a point per game output. They're high on him because he has great hands and impressive vision. They're high on him because they don't struggle to put 2 and 2 together. Anyone who thought Helm would be an offensive force obviously doesn't understand hockey well anyway, so I don't put much stock in that.

Yeah, those deflating goals are symptoms of the team's offensive deficiency. Because we can't seem to buy a goal lately, any goal that goes in is incredibly deflating.

No question there-- along with Bryzgalov, Anderson is the best goalie in the NHL so far this season.

Defensively, Ericsson looks like a rookie d-man out there. That's why putting him with Lebda leads to a s***-show-- Lebda looks like a rookie out there too. This is what you expect from a young d-man in his first full NHL season, regardless of how talented he is or how well he played before entering the NHL, defense is incredibly hard to ease into at the NHL level. That being said, he still shows flashes out there-- it's not like he looks like he's going to be a poor defensive d-man. He's been a big part of the PK success lately.

He let 2 goals in against the best team in the West. Brilliant is an overstatement, but it's no more of an overstatement than "didn't play as bad as he usually does" is an understatement. If you think Howard's play was anything less than very good you're nuts. He made a bunch of key stops against the dominant team in the West.

Thanks. Aside from politics you an I are usually of like mind anyway.

Nearly everyone here is a dedicated Wings fan. You'll have to excuse people for wanting to vent their frustrations after watching the Wings fail so utterly when they have no excuse or clear reason for doing so. There's a huge difference between venting frustration after a crappy game and being Mindfly.

You're dead on about Datsyuk... I have no idea why it's happening, though... is it that other teams have him "figured out"? That seems unlikely for someone as creative as Datsyuk-- he's hardly predictable out there. As far as Howard goes-- I completely disagree. Bad goal or not, that was still only the second goal that was scored on him. With the way the Wings played offensively Howard can't be blamed at all. If you only let 2 goals in all night you're doing a great job in net. The only way he could have won that game was with a shut-out. That's an absurdly unrealistic expectation to have of your goalie. If you play a game and only manage to score one goal the blame lies on the offense. That is especially true for this game where the Wings had 7 PP opportunities and failed to convert on any of them.

Agreed.

I can't deal with this ******* stress. I'm angry, have a headache, and I'm incredibly irritable. All because of this ******* hockey I'm watching. This is really annoying. How come Datsyuk and Zetterberg are suddenly unable to score? Why did we once again, have to count on the bottom two lines to score? Right now the bottom two lines are creating the most scoring chances. That's f***ed up. Datsyuk and Zetterberg can't seem to finish. Filppula's line looks really good but doesn't score. What's going on? Lidstrom's been dominant defensively (although he had three giveaways last game) but hasn't looked even remotely like himself offensively. Tonight we went up against the hottest goalie in the league and couldn't crack him. 40+ shots and one goal? WTF? That's a herculean effort from the Avalanche goalie, yes, but it's also unacceptable right now because the Wings have been struggling to score for the past few games. Am I panicing? No. So I swear to ******* god- if Snazzy does his trite panic button posts I'm just going to block him. We're not even 10 games in, yeah, we're just over 10% of the way into the season and we're 3-4-2? Christ. This ridiculousness won't last long-- Holland won't sit ideally by and watch the Wings implode-- we have to maximize the number of playoff runs while Lidstrom is still here. When Lidstrom retires we can expect some lean, lean years, yeah, but right now while he's still around Holland is going to try to maximize the number of shots we have at the cup. There's no sense squandering Lidstrom's remaining years in an extended rebuilding/retooling phase. On the plus side Bertuzzi had a whale of a night, or at least as much of one you can have when you hit the post every time you shoot. Howard was brilliant. Howard was the best Red Wing on the ice by a long shot. This is a Red Wings team that let Howard down, not the other way around. f***. So frustrated.

Wow he looked messed up laying there on the ice with the trainer.... still holding his stick in one hand. He definitely wasn't all there mentally at that point. Brutal. Head injuries scare the s*** out of me... that kind of stuff can haunt you forever.

I'm not worked up as much as I'm being unnecessarily bold.

Regurgitating pelicans. Classic.

Oh McCollum is a great young prospect, and that's why I think he'd be needed to swing that deal. McCollum was the best goalie in the OHL last season. But Halak is good enough to be an All-Star some day.

Definitely steep. What about Kindl + McCollum? Kindl's definitely a bit risky of a pick for Gainey but he has a huge upside. McCollum is a stud for sure, but American, which would be a tough sell for a goalie in Montreal (stupid, I know, but it's a francophone thing).

That's true about Ozzy-- his amazing post season play bought him a free year again Once we get into the playoffs we know Ozzy is money.