Thunderpriest

Amen. I wondered when someone would mention the assistant coaching. Todd McLellan leaves for San Jose, & San Jose improves dramatically and captures the President's Trophy. In the meantime, Detroit's defensive lapses multiply and the PK is unrecognizable. I'm not going to blame everything on McCrimmon, because we've had a lot of personnel turnover, but I think that there is definitely something to this. It's not like our players just started to suck for some unknown reason. It's not a coincidence that things started drifting downhill when Todd left. And okay....we did get within one game of the Stanley Cup.....but I think that we really underacheived. We should've blown the Pens away, but our defensive play was awful and I wanted to lock myself in another room whenever we took a penalty - because I knew it would end up in the back of the net. Every time. And that's unacceptable for this team. Sorry.....had to vent.

It's difficult lining the boys up because Homer has to play on the top line to be effective, and he really has looked quicker this season. So I like Homer on the top line with the EuroTwins. Unfortunately, there are a lot of players who can fit there but have to be relegated to 2nd/3rd line duty. May has been a nice surprise, too. I hate Datsyuk & Z playing apart. I like the Flip/Leino/JDub line, but will break it up so Fil can center the 2nd line. That leaves me with this lineup @ forward: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi Leino, Williams, Cleary Maltby, Draper, May See, now what happens when Helm returns? Maltby has been playing well. May should be a permanent fixture in the lineup to keep opposing players honest. Williams and Leino have been very good. (Leino's puck handling has really impressed me. He could make the top line next year if he continues to progress and can learn to finish -no pun intended.) Maybe I should sit Bertuzzi? Z, Pavs, Homer Leino, Filppula, Franzen Cleary, Helm, Williams Maltby, Draper, May ???

I actually thought that Homer has looked rather good so far. He seems to be fully recovered from his injuries and actually looks faster out on the ice. I am of the opinion that Babs needs to keep Datsyuk & Zetterberg together for the full season. Together, they are greater than their sums apart. Homer doesn't just park in front of the net either. He digs the puck out of the corners better than just about anyone on the team. We should line the forwards up thusly: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Bertuzzi, Filppula, Franzen Leino, Williams\Helm, Cleary Maltby, Draper, Abdelkader\Williams I think Babs has really hurt the team by separating the Euro Twins. My 2 cents

Wow...Leino in on 2 goals.....he looks fantastic out there.

Wings up 1-0 on a nice goal from Williams. Even nicer interception & tap pass from Leino to set him up.

This is exactly how I would line up the boys, with the exception of swapping Maltby & Eaves. The 1st line was the most dominant in the game when Homer was healthy. And Pavs & Z should never, NEVER be split up. I don't eat Peanut Butter sandwiches & Jelly sandwiches separately. Some things just go better together. The 2nd line looks tough. Fil & Mule developed some great chemistry, and Cleary should flourish there with them. Me likey. 3rd line looks promising. While not overjoyed with the signing of JWill, I can live with it as long as he remains on the third line. I love Helm's game....speed, grit & determination.....a template player under Babs. Hoping that Leino has a breakout year and competes with Cleary for 2nd line duty, but I'm not holding my breath. If that happens and Cleary plays third line, both lines end up being stronger. 4th line is as good a 4th line as any in the league. They aren't going to score a lot, but if they can be assigned a shutdown role against a 2nd/3rd line, then we improve defensively as a team. What about defensive pairings? Those are fairly set, dependant upon Lilja's health. As we know a defenseman will be traded before the start of the season, it will likely be Lebda, and I'm cool with that. If Lilja heals & can play, I'd be all for trading Lebda & Meech to free up more cap space, or to pick up a better prospect. Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Ericsson/(Lilja-Lebda) Meech?

I've got that beat. You're going back to your job. I'm an IT professional and was let go from my last job 2 weeks before Christmas and haven't been able to find work since. Yeah, I got that beat.

I don't understand why everyone seems to be so down on Homer recently. He didn't light it up in the playoffs this year, but nobody on the team did. Homer actually had a good season statistically.....and he was hampered by injuries. His stats this year line up with most of his other seasons on a point per game basis: 08-09, 37pts in 53gms = .69ppg 07-08, 40pts in 59gms = .67ppg 06-07, 52pts in 77gms = .67ppg 05-06, 59pts in 81gms = .72ppg I really think that if Babcock reunites the Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom line....which was the best line in all of hockey in 07-08.....that they will be dominant again. I understand that Babs likes to break up Dats & Z to try to balance the lines, but I really think it's a mistake. Dats & Z are too dynamic together to ever split up. Losing Hossa doesn't help the 2nd line, but I think we've got enough talent to make up for it. I've seen a lot of potential lineups where Homer is playing the third & fourth lines. I think people are seriously underestimating him. So, if we assume that Hudler is signed, I'd think we would best be served with the following forward lineup: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Cleary, Filppula, Franzen Leino, Hudler, Helm Maltby, Draper, Abdelkader I also like the idea of switching out Hudler and Cleary now & then to get Hudler some more ice time up front. Homer HAS to play up front with Hank & Dats. Their puck control makes up for his lack of foot speed and he opens up a lot of space for them by planting in front of the net and retrieving pucks in the corners. Homer is less effective with the grinders, as they play a speed game, but very valuable on the top line. Discuss.

No. No Todd Bertuzzi NO! Awful idea.

The point is that a LOT of people were awful in the playoffs, but Homer seems to be more frequently tossed under the bus. (And it's my topic to begin with. ) People on here would have him playing on the fourth line next year, and I think he's just been way under appreciated. Did he play well? No. Was he injured? Undoubtedly. I think he'll be in much better form this next season.

Stuart might be convinced to waive the NTC to head back to California. I hear LA has plenty of cap space. The point being that we've been concentrating on the prospect of trading a lower tier defenseman, when trading a higher level player makes more sense "cap-wise". All-in-all, I trust Kenny to do what's best for the team, but the speculation is fun.....

Okay..... keep Lilja, trade Meech & Lebda, give Leino a modest raise, and get Hudler in below $2M with a longer term deal: Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000 Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333 Johan Franzen $3,954,545 Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary $2,800,000 Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000 * Jiri Hudler $1,750,000 Kris Draper $1,583,333 * Ville Leino $925,000 Kirk Maltby $883,333 Justin Abdelkader $850,000 Darren Helm $599,444 Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000 Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000 Brad Stuart $3,750,000 Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000 Andreas Lilja $1,250,000 Jonathan Ericsson $900,000 Chris Osgood $1,416,666 Jimmy Howard $716,666 SALARY CAP $56,800,000 PAYROLL $55,862,320 BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000 CAP ROOM $937,680 Okay...a couple of spots to fill with nearly $1M. Hmmmmm Trade Stuart, keep Lebda & Meech, Add Downey & bring back Shanny. How does this look: Pavel Datsyuk ($6.7), Henrik Zetterberg ($6.084), Tomas Holmstrom ($2.25) Johan Franzen ($3.955), Valtteri Filppula ($3), * Brendan Shanahan ($1) Daniel Cleary ($2.8), * Jiri Hudler ($2.5), * Ville Leino ($.925) Kirk Maltby ($.883), Kris Draper ($1.583), Darren Helm ($.599) Depth: Justin Abdelkader ($.85), * Aaron Downey ($.5) Nicklas Lidstrom ($7.45), Brian Rafalaski ($6) Niklas Kronwall ($3), Jonathan Ericsson ($.9) Andreas Lilja ($1.25), Brett Lebda ($.65) Derek Meech ($.483) Chris Osgood ($1.416) Jimmy Howard ($.716) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (including bonuses) ROSTER SIZE 23 SALARY CAP $56,800,000 PAYROLL $55,495,653 BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000 CAP ROOM $1,304,347 Now....if you really want to mix things up, trade Rafalski and keep Stuart. Instead of Shanahan & Downey.....sign Sykora & Moen. If we simply trade a higher salaried defensemen, we solve a number of issues. We've all been concentrating on trading a lower value defenseman, but I bet Kenny makes the hard choice to better the team & keep some cap space available for the deadline. Thoughts?

I think that they all looked tired at the end...... I also believe that the injuries really took a toll on them this year.

From a cap perspective, it makes more sense to trade Lilja, as his cap hit is greater than Lebda's and Meech's combined.....plus, you get to keep two defensemen instead of just one. That said, I'd still prefer to keep Lilja. Lilja is big & strong and clears the net better than any of our other defensemen. That's important on a team that's already undersized. Lebda & Meech do not give me a warm fuzzy feeling when thinking about either of them on the PK. Cap reasons = trade Lilja Game reasons = trade Lebda/Meech

I believe that Hudler is going to arbitration to ensure that he doesn't get ridiculous offer sheets and put the front office behind the 8 ball. I don't think he's looking for the big payday. I believe that he'll sign a long term contract at a small avg cap hit so he can stay with the Red Vings. Also, I hope that Lilja can get healthy and that Lebda & Meech are let go. Meech isn't a good enough defenseman or forward to take somebody else's spot, so he plays in either role when the team is desperate. By the way.....does anyone else hate the salary cap?

Yes. He's only one season removed from when Dats, Z & Homer were the most dominant line in the NHL. Remember that? Also....I'll bet that he resigns for at least 3 more years at a lower salary.

Again....I place a lot of the blame on Babcock for misusing Homer. Yeah, his goals were down. He wasn't playing with Dats & Hank to tip in shots very often. He didn't see as much top line minutes this year in the playoffs, either. And yeah, injuries suck, but they happen. How are Datsyuk's scoring totals in the playoffs? 1 goal?

He hasn't gotten any slower since 07-08, and he was able to keep up with Dats & Z and make it to the front of net & scrum for pucks. Putting him on the 4th line makes him a liability, because they don't have the puck control to allow Homer to get to the net. You either play him on the top line, or you might as well trade him.

There was a lot of awful play in the playoffs last year, and not just by Homer. Homer was misused by Babcock. He's not a checking line, defensive forward - and that's where he was played on most nights. Hossa was next to useless in the playoffs. Pavs wasn't a scoring machine. Z was overworked. Hudler should've gotten more ice time. Stuart & Kronwall were sub-par. The PK was atrocious. etc. etc. etc.

Agreed.....people on here can be a bit nit-picky. Everyone has their pet peeves, I suppose.

I'd much rather keep Lilja than Lebda, assuming that Lilja gets healthy. His absence was a big reason that the PK was soooo bad in the playoffs. Lebda is quick, but he pinches at inopportune times. Lilja used to be a turnover machine, but has really solidifies these past two seasons. Picture Ericsson & Lilja on the blueline together. That makes me smile. I personally hope that both Lebda & Meech are traded.

Cleary won't supplant Homer on the top line. Unfortunately, Babs will likely split up Dats & Z........which I hate. (Without Hossa or Sammy, he'll want to bolster the 2nd line, but I'd never split the Euro-twins.) Here is how I believe our roster will shape up, and where I'd play the personnel: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Hudler, Filppula, Franzen Leino, Helm, Cleary Maltby, Draper, Abdelkader Lidstrom, Rafalski Kronwall, Stuart Ericsson, Lilja Osgood Howard Alternatively (if Dats & Z MUST be separated): Filppula, Datsyuk, Holmstrom Cleary, Zetterberg, Franzen Leino, Hudler, Helm Maltby, Draper, Abby

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already - I didn't read the entire thread - but I just don't understand the lack of support for Hudler. Yeah, he's a small player, but if you watched the same team that I did, he was actually very hard to take off of the puck - especially in the playoffs. He stick-handled quite well along the boards in the opponent's zone and made some nice plays. And folks, he was 5th in scoring amongst forwards while receiving third line minutes. He had 57 points and was +7 in the regular season. Cleary, Flip & Samuelsson, each of whom logged time on the top two lines, all had 40 points, and Cleary & Sammy were scratch players. I think that $2M would be reasonable for him. Hell, Filppula is making $3M. Is he a replacement for Hossa? Of course not......but I'd love to see him get some 2nd line ice time with Filppula & Franzen.

Leino will likely play on the third line w/ Hudler & Helm. Abby will likely play on the 4th line. My 2 cents........

I'm quite certain that Kenny would rather compete for the Cup next June than make you happy with a *splash* today. Free agency is only a few hours old and you're already complaining? LOL!!!