IceMunkee

I am not a conspiracy fan but this post gives all the ammo one would need. The Art Ross - I got nothing but he plays in the East and it is hard for Z sometimes to score a s*** ton of points while shutting down the World's Biggest Stars! The Lester B Pearson - He got this probably because of who was voting. The only thing I know for certain the players won't vote for him again... EVER. Actually I think he gripped tied for 8th behind Datsyuk, Z, and Lids voted by 350 current NHL players. '07 The Hart - Well he probably was the best that year. The hart is slightly jaded by point production though. The don't normally take in consideration the 2 way ability... I got nothing for the All Star appearances. He is a great player '07 Mark Messier - That is about the biggest joke of a winner ever. EVER. Maybe it is slightly true that the NHL brass is beefing up thier Billboard with some hardware... maybe... edit: I just want to add that the thread was stupid from the get go... But start picking and comparing Z with Sid, I want to get involved!

I think we talk about your UFA's because when we try to talk about ours it starts the cold war of LGW. edit: Also I am just exhuasted trying to dispell the thinking of there has to be someone to blame. So I figured I would join this convo.... That and I am just to sad to sleep. Plus I gotta stay away from the threads that you open up and one of the less cooler then yourself and Doc upthere post hurtful pictures and words. BTW completely off topic, last year when you guys lost did wings fans join your boards and do that? I just hope not is all, I personally am about the competition and the game. The challange of a good team and a hard fought series is great. I am just not into all that stuff. Wow! I am exhuasted...

This is why I think we need to change our vocabulary on the word "enforcer". They barely exist anymore and the will be nonexistant soon enough. I don't want a guy that slashes an injured star player's foot. I want a player who will have a "talk" with the player who will. Maybe we could change the word enforcer to "High Energy, Fearless, Loyal, Team Loving, Hard Hitting, s*** Talking, Place Putting, Goal Scoring Ability Having, Forward. Wow that is a mouthful. The point I am trying to make in my current state of sleep deprivation is that enforcer is not what we need to BMF forward...

I read your entire post. I know what you meant. Not that I need to validate what I do or do not say. Your an intelligent poster with whom I have a disagreeing opinion. I agree that an enforcer or the lack of would destroy this team, we are still the best team in the NHL. I just think the OP makes a good point that it may have helped. When you may say an enforcer will not make this team win but you say one player having "heart" could result in 5-6 wins I just have a hard time with understand the thought process.

You can't spell and so you may not be able to read. There is a massive Hossa thread that this can get plugged into.

I disagree that Hossa is a difficult decision when it comes to whether he should stay or not, the tough part is money. Even tougher is who goes to keep him here. This opinion has had me beaten up all day long but I am not a coward and won't back down. I like to think I more open-minded then looking at the last seven games as a career decision maker. Maybe I may offer a differant prospective. Before the 2005-2006 playoff's we had a player who was also considered a playoff bust. Pavel Datsyuk was bashed on here for some time, some fans believed we over paid for him at the time. Then 06-07 and 07-08 he produced like a true top NHL player. 2009-2010 One of three finalist for the Hart and he did not produce (points) this playoff season. Should we cut him because he may be infact a playoff bust? Hell no! No Dats has more to argue with but not much more then Hoss. Some people just want to blame someone, he is the easiest to blame with little knowledge. Hossa played well for you last year in the finals, best player as far as production if I remember accuratly. Hossa should definitly be resigned, I don't think that is the decision our brass has to consider. I think thier difficulty is who do we let go that will not make a huge dent on our depth. That is the tough decision, and should the say goodbye to some longtime Wings, and how do the bolster the D a little.

I like that you think an enforcer is "crap". Yet you stand by your opinion of one single player having "heart" as winning 5-6 more games. That is jaded. Not that the two opinions relate really but to me it shows the wieght of your opinion...

I have not thought about it at all until I read the OP's post. This is what today has been, differant prospectives are brought to light for me. I agree. I have been kinda on the fence saying we don't really need an enforcer, but I would enjoy one. So now that I am off that fence and in your yard playing bocce ball, who? I would like someone tough with an offensive side. Let's face a straight up enforcer like the days of old are gone. We need to make it worth it and get someone that has an offensive upside. Not a dirty goon type either, a loyal energy filled ball buster... Am I asking to much?

I just wanted you to know that Holland does hang out here everyday. He gets all of his info in the rumor thread. He chooses who and how to trade from that topic catagory... He won't step in the general discussion cat though. I have actually seen him hanging around the vending machines in the Political Discussions catagory too. That is how he came to his decision to vote in the 2008 elections. I know crazy right. I don't get paid enough!

That is the amazing differance between the Wings fans and Pens fans like yourself. We have a big picture concept and knowledge of the game. We don't just talk about the Wings, we don't only knock other teams. The other Pen fan in here you could take a few notes from. I am not saying all Wings fans but alot on here in LGW not only love the Wings but we love the Sport and converse about alot of things that will effect this team, other teams, the League as a whole and the quality of the sport. Oh and if you look in the 18 threads why Hossa sucks, blah blah blah. Coaching is to blame. Hockey God's are blamed. Bettman is blamed. Crosby is blamed. Officiating is blamed. Not many, a few, but not many just saying the Pens were the better team. The loss falls on the entire team. So don't think I am trying to say we are all really smart.... edit/ I just want to clear up that I in no way think the Pens are a better team, just the better team in the series.

It is not really bad mouthing. I don't dislike him. He has been substandard. Which does not make me want to throw him in the fire but man can he cause a turn over or 30. I would say second best defender is arguable too. I don't understand what is so hard you are so easy to throw people in the fire. I disagree with you on Hossa. I would consider it. I think that gaining Raf from the East was risk because of the East being a cake walk compared to the west. It has worked out pretty well but if your willing to throw so much blame on Hossa... IDK seems hypocritical to me, just a little.

Since Hossa is probably the top UFA this season even though some of us won't admit it cause we got our goat glasses on. I would sign Hossa first. I would entertain the idea of somehow replacing Rafalski with Jay. Here's my concern he is a defender in the East. The West is a completely differant style and level of play. Sure enough his +/- would improve with us but would he be able to put up the points?

My final words will be a very big thank you to the Red Wings. We truly are a very lucky fan base, so lucky we sometimes forget how to be grateful. An amazing season. When the playoff's started I did not think we would go this far until Anahiem. What a team. I would like to encourage the angrier fans to step back, breath, consider, and reform thier anger. I don't blame the angry fans, I was extremely angry. I just took a step back and looked from day one in October all the way through the year and reconsidered my evaluations on certain players. During the playoff's I had a party every game the crowd grew the farther we went, but so did the ignorance. Last night I had to hear my young cousin with her extremly brand new Red Wings shirt shout, "shoot! Shoot! Why won't they shoot, don't they want to score?" Then I had to politely tell her, "They are not shooting because the are in the nuetral zone..." I tell this story because as the parties grew it seemed to be more and more "band wagon" fan's, which is okay, we all start somewhere but you must hold your opinions until you live and breath this team for 70 or more regular season games a year. I don't like everyone's opinion on this board, but if I can tell that they are hardcore fan's of the team and of the sport I will respect thier opinion. At least it is educated, at least it comes from a knowledge of how teams/players have performed from start to finish. All this is being said because I heard alot of "opinions" last night from these "band wagoners" after the game it frustrated me to no end. Then I wake today just to find out that these opinions are all over the media and in these boards. Some of them come from guys/gals that I know watch all year. Watch alot of hockey. The have opinions based of knowledge, crappy opinions but thoughtful ones. I am not saying there are alot of "band wagoners" but I see alot of names being started these last few months. Maybe they watch and just learned of LGW maybe not. I just really hate uneducated "band wagoners" opinions based mostly off of hear say and media crap. I can't change it, but I can say my piece. Last night having to tell someone in thier very first brand spank-me-new t-shirt that it is ridiculous to shoot from the neutral zone. Later her friend and her said things like maybe thier to old, maybe Hossa is to blame, maybe some of them shut off the game switch, even though they just learned that shooting from the nuetral zone was very poor offensive strategy. Or another one of my wife's brothers friend who kept saying why did the coach not put in andlecrater. I simply said he did not because andlecrater does not play for the wings and sounds like a very bad VD. I feel like some comments are the same today. Again, no opinion is wrong. I just wish I could make a law that says you must have X amount of ours devoted to the game and to being a "fan" before your allowed to form an opinion in a public setting.... Wow. That was a rant. Thanks if you read it all....

I...think...I...love...you...

Your exactly right. A team loss. I am mad at Stewie. Mad at Hossa. The boards today have done two things for me today... Showed me some differant prospectives. It showed me how ridiculous through others postings my thoughts and my search for a scape goat. The team lost this game. Some players played better then others but all in all it is a team loss. The hardest part for me to accept that is admitting that Ozzie had something to do with either loss, I won't do that. Ozzie won both games for us, we just could not collect on the times we needed to get paid. So many emotions today. This is certainly the hardest loss for me personaly as a fan. It could be because it is the freshest. The worst before this was our early exit to the Oilers. I took the family on vacation to Florida, it drove me nuts to be gone. Then coming home at 1030 at night with my house decorated in Oilers stuff everywhere. That hurt a little.

Now this is going to far! Babcock is the best coach in the NHL!!! Maybe I am the differant one, maybe I am a loyalist or maybe even a Homer but this is just unacceptable in my book.

I can't say that your brass is bad. The best thing that happened to the Pens this year was firing Michelle... That was in my opinion the one big move that turned your season around. It is very difficult to make a coaching change that works. Shero did. Did it like a hooker. To have the knowledge and the balls to pull it off and make it work takes a great GM. Better then the Wings? I won't entertain that. A great move followed by very good ones. Bringing in Guerin to me is like last years addition of Dallas Drake. Alot of people clowned it, but it worked.

I have to say...... I have not agreed with you on much today, but your on the friggin money here!!!

Thank you. Seriously to sign up just to say that makes you a badass in my unfamous book of badass's. If it helps I was pulling for the Ranger's out of the East.

I am really trying to be corgile but... Go f*** yourself.

I agree 90%. I would just change the words a little, they lost to better team at the time they lost. Does that make sense? The Wings are a better team then the Pens. Just did not play like it. And you said it at the end, the "bounces". Something uncontrollable, karma's menacing henchmen. The bounces. They just did not go our way when we needed them most. I realize to some this is a cop out and makes me a homer. There are guys you can blame for things but at one point or time everyone on this team played well and made a differance. I hated Stewie last night. Hated him. I have excepted that he was off but not enough to consider losing him. I won't even bring up the "H" word.

I agree that Malkin moves at some point. It has to be hard on his ego knowing he is the better player but easily becomes the goat. He is in the Kids shadow. This is meaningless but I was wondering... When does Sidney "The Kid" Crosby get to old for "The Kid"?

I would really like to see some Pittsburg fans show thier appreciation in here. I think they owe it to Matt. One of the few fan forums that invites other fans. I may be asking alot and I am sure Matt does not care.

Your not the only one! In fact I was just thinking of this today. I was thinking of the Ducks series, thinking about how intense it was. It was coined as the Stanley Cup Finals. I thought the same. It did not work out that way but we were not playing with the "same" team in the Finals. Had the same Wings team or the same ducks team showed up in the finals, Pitt would not be hoisting the cup. I have more hatred for the Ducks. I hate the Pens too. It is almost impossible to have a rivalry with a team from the Easy East. We don't see them enough, the only rivalry we have with the Pens is a media one.

Atleast you have better taste!!! Seriously congrats. It hurts so much because how great the series was this year! Your just as bad as the Wings fans reading into it. I am sure Lids slept well last night, okay maybe not but not because of Sid. I am sure that Sid lost his virginty last night and may finally be going to sleep. Maybe not. Bottom line they are over it, I am sure.