swiss_fan 3 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 Theirs a huge point to made though, the D is taking up a huge portion of the cap. Stuart and Kronwall at 3 million, Rafa at 6, Lidstrom at 7.45. One has got to go to free up cap room for the forwards. Why can't Chelios be a top 4 D man anymore? He hasn't played that badly. Kindle could be brought up. Trading a D-man could mean losing both Franzen and Hossa, or getting hold of a top tier goaltender. C'mon we are talking about next year, and Cheli is clearly out of the question for it since he is already the element that don t allow us to bring up a guy like Leino, Downey or Helm whenever we want. For now we can easily say that to have him as a assistant coach or training partner would have been a better choice than give him 800'000$ ... I totally agree that Stuart's play has been more solid for now than kronwall' s but i also think he would be the more easy to move without shaking up too much the locker room (Kronwall is here for longer and is swedish), and he is more redundant than Kronwall with Ericsson in the system.. Like some said it before i would be all for a shakeup right now in the D pairing to try to push Kronwall.. About yesterday goal, it was clearly Kronwall's fault: the guy didn t robbed him the puck with his stick but hit his skates with his stick which ended to make Kronwall loose his balance and his puck control.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 About yesterday goal, it was clearly Kronwall's fault: the guy didn t robbed him the puck with his stick but hit his skates with his stick which ended to make Kronwall loose his balance and his puck control. Nope, you've obviously didnt see the game. Stuart (I think?) was on the boards with some Wild player, kronwall comes to pick the pick up and the wild player knocks the puck off Kronwalls stick with his own stick and i went right into another player. Unless Kronwall sees the future there that's gonna happen. good play by the Wild, not kronner's error. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swiss_fan 3 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 I did and i really thought at first glance it happened like i said (hit on skates and not puck touched+ poor puck control), but i didn t watched the intermission so may be i havent seen the replay who could change my opinion about it. Anyway I also saw that Kronner was bad all 2nd, wanna argue against that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stormboy 47 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 Stuart is even (0) Kronwall is -4 I wouldn't call that atrocious. Atrocious would be Kris Draper at -11. League worst for defensemen is -21 (Brendan Witt) to some degree, +/- is more of a team stat anyway, but to me, having our 2nd defensive pairing be at an average of -2 is horrible, compared to this team in years passed. i'd have to look at the stats again, but i'm pretty sure last year we only had one or two players in the minus column, and it was like maltby at -5; conversely, we had 3 of the top five leaders in plus/minus for much of last season. the fact that our second defensive pairing averages below even is a huge indicator of how our team is doing with those guys in on the ice, IMO. that being said, last year we blew out a lot of games and our powerplay wasn't as good. we're winning a lot of one goal games on the strength of powerplay goals, hence a lot of our players will be minus in red wing victories. either way, team wide, five on five is not what it should be, especially with these two. both of them should be +10 or higher with the kinds of forwards they're playing with, IMO. to me, stuart has seemed invisible, which is desirable vis-a-vis the glaring kronwallian giveaways. that being said, i think both of these guys will pick it up in the playoffs and, despite what this entire post might indicate, i'm really not worried about either of them. rather have kronner sit in the minus column all season and not lay out big hits and then turn around and lead the team in defense points and routinely lay people out (like last year) than have him be trying too hard right now and get injured late in the season. his chemistry and experience still makes him desirable over any of the AHL guys, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stormboy 47 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 Nope, you've obviously didnt see the game. Stuart (I think?) was on the boards with some Wild player, kronwall comes to pick the pick up and the wild player knocks the puck off Kronwalls stick with his own stick and i went right into another player. Unless Kronwall sees the future there that's gonna happen. good play by the Wild, not kronner's error. i think both are true. it was the a good play by the wild player, but also kronner f***ed it up. the same way that every great datsyukian deke is also somewhat the fault of the goaltender...if huet had kept his stick on the ice dats wouldn't have scored that goal in the winter classic. that being said, it was still a great effort by dats. same thing is true here, i think. give credit to the wild for a good play in the offensive zone, but i have to believe that kronner could have handled that situation better. in one way, the "good" part of the wild play was taking advantage of a detroit weekness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
datsyukismyfriend 4 Report post Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) aside from the playoffs last year, kronwall hasn't nearly lived up to his hype. he's got the talent, but doesn't appear to have the mental game to put it all together. he is probably our least consistent defenseman. he'll have a great game or period and turn right around and have terrible game or period immediately. at least he's dodged his propensity for serious injury for a while. the careless giveaways and errant passes are what gets me the most. he very much needs to tighten up his game in the defensive and neutral zones. Edited January 6, 2009 by datsyukismyfriend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chase 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2009 Ai yi yi... I havent read most this thread so excuse me if this has been said/doesnt make sense... IMO all of our top 6 d-men have been just average all year... with Lebda dipping below that average for a bit and Rafalski playing better than average at times... I really don't understand what everyone is freaking out about. It will be ok... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Rule_1010 4 Report post Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) Scratching Kopecky is always a good idea, regardless of the reason. Truer words have never been written. As for Chelios playing over Kopecky, I thought that was super classy, which is what the wings' organization is all about. Back on subject, it is scary that I have more faith in Lilja than Kronwall at this point. I will take Lilja and his stay-at-home defensive play anyday over the way Kronwall has been playing. To Kronwall's defense though, I feel that he is starting to come a round, slowly...very slowly. I just wish he would simplify his game. Quit being cute and make the easy, simple pass. Then again, I have never played organized hockey, so that is probably easier said than done. Edited January 6, 2009 by Wings_Rule_1010 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
