Mike Green scores......AGAIN!

[Doggy 130]

Just to stir the pot..

TSN Player Rankings

1. Alex Ovechkin

2. Mike Green

3. Zach Parise

4. Evgeni Malkin

5. Pavel Datsyuk

What's also funny is I recall someone (probably akustyk) talking about TSN's Canadian bias. The top 5 is laden with 1 Canadian, 3 Russians, and 1 American.

Btw, I have a feeling Green will win the Norris.

Those rankings are just based on stats. It's like giving someone a trophy based on their fantasy score.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Doggy

[Guest Shoreline]

More pot stirring..

TSN Defense rankings:

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=10465

1. Mike Green

2. Zdeno Chara

3. Nicklas Lidstrom

4. Dennis Wideman

5. Dan Boyle

[VM1138 1,921]

It's funny how consistent Lidstrom has been. A few less than godly games and suddenly he's in decline and not in his prime anymore. That's a true tribute to his greatness and consistency.

[Reds4Life 51]

More pot stirring..

TSN Defense rankings:

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=10465

1. Mike Green

2. Zdeno Chara

3. Nicklas Lidstrom

4. Dennis Wideman

5. Dan Boyle

Do you realize this is FANTASY ranking? OMFG

[Guest Shoreline]

Do you realize this is FANTASY ranking? OMFG

OMFG NO WAI. I thought this was Hart and Norris voting!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

More pot stirring..

TSN Defense rankings:

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=10465

1. Mike Green

2. Zdeno Chara

3. Nicklas Lidstrom

4. Dennis Wideman

5. Dan Boyle

Did you read what Doggy said? They ranked these players the exact same way. Furthermore- this is a fantasy hockey article. Green is going to get you more points in your fantasy pool then the legitimate Norris candidates.

To top that all off- TSN has had Green ranked there for the last 3 ******* months. What's the point of reminding us of some old information in an old, dried up thread? Nothing has changed about Mike Green.

[Guest Shoreline]

Did you read what Doggy said? They ranked these players the exact same way. Furthermore- this is a fantasy hockey article. Green is going to get you more points in your fantasy pool then the legitimate Norris candidates.

To top that all off- TSN has had Green ranked there for the last 3 ******* months. What's the point of reminding us of some old information in an old, dried up thread? Nothing has changed about Mike Green.

Our boy Green just had two more assists, and stretching his lead on other defensemen in points.

At this point, the only possible contender is Chara, who gets half the publicity. It's Green's Norris to lose.

[Doggy 130]

Fedorov deserves the Norris more than Green.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Our boy Green just had two more assists, and stretching his lead on other defensemen in points.

At this point, the only possible contender is Chara, who gets half the publicity. It's Green's Norris to lose.

No it's not. This thread already has a list of people who scored like Green without winning the Norris.

The Norris isn't the "highest scoring defenseman" award. It's for the "best defensemen". I can't see how more of the same from Green changes his very well known weaknesses.

Gordie,Sid&Ted's post was right on the mark.

I really can't see how Green adding two more assists tonight suddenly makes "he scores points!" a more relevant counterpoint to "he's a terrible defensive player".

As far as publicity matters to the Norris- well Lidstrom would've already lost to Dion if s***-tons of publicity had an effect on the Norris. Green's defensive failings are just as widely publicized as his ability to score goals.

If Green wins it this year then the Norris has been tarnished. Green's an amazing offensive player. His ability to score is a game-changer. But his pathetic defensive play is, well... offensive.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Our boy Green just had two more assists, and stretching his lead on other defensemen in points.

At this point, the only possible contender is Chara, who gets half the publicity. It's Green's Norris to lose.

Heh.

Heh heh.

[Guest Shoreline]

No it's not. This thread already has a list of people who scored like Green without winning the Norris.

The Norris isn't the "highest scoring defenseman" award. It's for the "best defensemen". I can't see how more of the same from Green changes his very well known weaknesses.

Gordie,Sid&Ted's post was right on the mark.

I really can't see how Green adding two more assists tonight suddenly makes "he scores points!" a more relevant counterpoint to "he's a terrible defensive player".

As far as publicity matters to the Norris- well Lidstrom would've already lost to Dion if s***-tons of publicity had an effect on the Norris. Green's defensive failings are just as widely publicized as his ability to score goals.

If Green wins it this year then the Norris has been tarnished. Green's an amazing offensive player. His ability to score is a game-changer. But his pathetic defensive play is, well... offensive.

Sucks for you. Green's got all the attention as this year's best defenseman. It doesn't matter who you or GS&T or anyone else here thinks should 'rightfully' be Norris winner. Phaneuf hasn't had remotely the attention or the stats (sadly) that Lids has had to really have a shot at the Norris besides the honorable mention and right to see Lids win in person. Green leads all defensemen in points, likely won't have anyone pass him, amongst the defensive leaders in +/-, he's got everything going his way but a few Red Wings fans, which doesn't matter at all.

A good offensively minded defenseman who can't play s*** for defense? How about Markov, or Souray? Green can play defense, some people are just in denial much like those who can't admit Crosby is one of the top 5 players in the league. Oh well, Green's Norris to lose. Repeat first three words of this post.

Edited March 28, 2009 by Shoreline

[Doc Holiday 0]

Sucks for you. Green's got all the attention as this year's best defenseman. It doesn't matter who you or GS&T or anyone else here thinks should 'rightfully' be Norris winner. Phaneuf hasn't had remotely the attention or the stats (sadly) that Lids has had to really have a shot at the Norris besides the honorable mention and right to see Lids win in person. Green leads all defensemen in points, likely won't have anyone pass him, amongst the defensive leaders in +/-, he's got everything going his way but a few Red Wings fans, which doesn't matter at all.

A good offensively minded defenseman who can't play s*** for defense? How about Markov, or Souray? Green can play defense, some people are just in denial much like those who can't admit Crosby is one of the top 5 players in the league. Oh well, Green's Norris to lose. Repeat first three words of this post.

Heh heh heh.

Heh.

[Guest Shoreline]

Heh heh heh.

Heh.

Yeah, it seems people hate when I say it, just like I get a nice backlash when I say Sidney Crosby is an elite player, or he's a top 5 player. Looks like it would piss a few off here if Green ends up winning the Norris. Would be funny as hell.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Yeah, it seems people hate when I say it, just like I get a nice backlash when I say Sidney Crosby is an elite player, or he's a top 5 player. Looks like it would piss a few off here if Green ends up winning the Norris. Would be funny as hell.

Crosby is a top 5 player.

Green is a top 5 Defenseman this year.

Green will probably be a finalist for the Norris.

The Norris is in no way his to lose.

[Guest Shoreline]

Crosby is a top 5 player.

Green is a top 5 Defenseman this year.

Green will probably be a finalist for the Norris.

The Norris is in no way his to lose.

If Lids was on his game I'd say it's his to lose. But sadly Green has no other legitimate competition besides Chara and Chara hasn't anywhere near the same production that Green has, nor the attention, and isn't this year's "story" which gets those trophy voters' attention far more. Despite who people think may deserve the Norris (there's some players who I think deserve it more but it isn't even worth mentioning since it doesn't matter as I don't vote), Green is and has been the best case for most of the season now. I wouldn't be surprised if Chara snatches it from him (there's still plenty with more at-home defenseman people rather than pro Paul Coffey offensive defenseman) but it's still Green's to lose.

Edited March 28, 2009 by Shoreline

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Sucks for you. Green's got all the attention as this year's best defenseman. It doesn't matter who you or GS&T or anyone else here thinks should 'rightfully' be Norris winner. Phaneuf hasn't had remotely the attention or the stats (sadly) that Lids has had to really have a shot at the Norris besides the honorable mention and right to see Lids win in person. Green leads all defensemen in points, likely won't have anyone pass him, amongst the defensive leaders in +/-, he's got everything going his way but a few Red Wings fans, which doesn't matter at all.

A good offensively minded defenseman who can't play s*** for defense? How about Markov, or Souray? Green can play defense, some people are just in denial much like those who can't admit Crosby is one of the top 5 players in the league. Oh well, Green's Norris to lose. Repeat first three words of this post.

You're still wrong. As much as you cling to your original argument and search for reasons (persecution! hahaha- Green and in a completely unrelated subject- Crosby are persecuted against! If I'm smart enough to watch hockey and understand the level of poor defensive play Green demonstrates I'm clearly just a blind hater! ).

Anyone who honestly thinks Green's not at least as s***ty defensively as Markov or Souray is either willfully ignorant/blind in hockey terms, simply hasn't watched him play and believes the few Caps fans who don't cringe when he's the only man back defending against a forward, or doesn't understand the subtleties of defensive play. There's really no two ways about it. Even the talking heads on TSN had a panel recently where they questioned whether Green's poor defensive play had to be addressed by Bruce Boudreau. They decided that he's playing so hot Bruce would be crazy to try and screw with the formula (and rightfully so- Green's going to play the way he plays, there's no sense trying to change it all at once while he's at his hottest offensively).

Regardless, we're not going to agree and I don't really care that you're wrong. Whoever is wrong here will figure it out as time passes and they see more of Green's play and hear more experts speak of it. If I'm wrong I'll gladly eat crow. But, based on having seen Green play quite a few times this year and having read and spoken to Caps fans on the subject, I can say he's undeserving of being called the best defenseman while his defensive skills remain this poor. Let's just drop the banter then. You're not going to believe me and I'm certainly not going to overrule my first hand observations on the subject to believe you. Repeat the first three words of this post.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Yeah, it seems people hate when I say it, just like I get a nice backlash when I say Sidney Crosby is an elite player, or he's a top 5 player. Looks like it would piss a few off here if Green ends up winning the Norris. Would be funny as hell.

Here we go again- desperately trying to puff his argument up by inexplicably tieing his questionable argument to one that's blatantly obvious.

Anyone who argues that Crosby isn't an elite player or that he isn't a top 5 player is either an idiot or doesn't watch much hockey. I think you'll find that the vast majority of the people you're labeling as having argued against that were in fact arguing the supposition that Crosby is the #1 player in the NHL or even more absurdly, is the next Gretzky.

You do love taking the most extreme viewpoint held by a small number of people on the other side and painting all of your opposition with that brush, don't you?

[Guest Shoreline]

You're still wrong. As much as you cling to your original argument and search for reasons (persecution! hahaha- Green and in a completely unrelated subject- Crosby are persecuted against! If I'm smart enough to watch hockey and understand the level of poor defensive play Green demonstrates I'm clearly just a blind hater! ).

Anyone who honestly thinks Green's not at least as s***ty defensively as Markov or Souray is either willfully ignorant/blind in hockey terms, simply hasn't watched him play and believes the few Caps fans who don't cringe when he's the only man back defending against a forward, or doesn't understand the subtleties of defensive play. There's really no two ways about it. Even the talking heads on TSN had a panel recently where they questioned whether Green's poor defensive play had to be addressed by Bruce Boudreau. They decided that he's playing so hot Bruce would be crazy to try and screw with the formula (and rightfully so- Green's going to play the way he plays, there's no sense trying to change it all at once while he's at his hottest offensively).

Regardless, we're not going to agree and I don't really care that you're wrong. Whoever is wrong here will figure it out as time passes and they see more of Green's play and hear more experts speak of it. If I'm wrong I'll gladly eat crow. But, based on having seen Green play quite a few times this year and having read and spoken to Caps fans on the subject, I can say he's undeserving of being called the best defenseman while his defensive skills remain this poor. Let's just drop the banter then. You're not going to believe me and I'm certainly not going to overrule my first hand observations on the subject to believe you. Repeat the first three words of this post.

Here we go again- desperately trying to puff his argument up by inexplicably tieing his questionable argument to one that's blatantly obvious.

Anyone who argues that Crosby isn't an elite player or that he isn't a top 5 player is either an idiot or doesn't watch much hockey. I think you'll find that the vast majority of the people you're labeling as having argued against that were in fact arguing the supposition that Crosby is the #1 player in the NHL or even more absurdly, is the next Gretzky.

You do love taking the most extreme viewpoint held by a small number of people on the other side and painting all of your opposition with that brush, don't you?

Extreme view? Hah. Green is hardly extreme. In fact, you already have a habit of eating crow so what excitement would that be to make you eat more? What's funny is you call my views extreme, dismiss the logic behind them, then tout your own as some hockey expert analysis' oh wait, where have I heard that before. ******* hypocrite.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Extreme view? Hah. Green is hardly extreme. In fact, you already have a habit of eating crow so what excitement would that be to make you eat more? What's funny is you call my views extreme, dismiss the logic behind them, then tout your own as some hockey expert analysis' oh wait, where have I heard that before. ******* hypocrite.

That's the best you could come up with? Just as we've seen in the political forum- you're as boorish as you are loud, opinionated and oh so frequently- wrong.

You're such a massive ******* ******-canoe. Honestly Shoreline- go swallow a knife.

[Guest Shoreline]

That's the best you could come up with? Just as we've seen in the political forum- you're as boorish as you are loud, opinionated and oh so frequently- wrong.

You're such a massive ******* ******-canoe. Honestly Shoreline- go swallow a knife.

Just because hypocrite Drake doesn't like an opinion more valid than his does not make it wrong. Sorry kiddo.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Just because hypocrite Drake doesn't like an opinion more valid than his does not make it wrong. Sorry kiddo.

Are we done mud-flinging yet? This whole bag has grown pretty tiresome.

How about this: never speak of me or to me, either directly or indirectly, and I'll do you the same courtesy.

I'm willing to bet that people here are as sick of reading our personal insults and arguments as I am of making them.

So let's just f*** off, yeah?

[Guest Shoreline]

Are we done mud-flinging yet? This whole bag has grown pretty tiresome.

How about this: never speak of me or to me, either directly or indirectly, and I'll do you the same courtesy.

I'm willing to bet that people here are as sick of reading our personal insults and arguments as I am of making them.

So let's just f*** off, yeah?

I like where I stand in this argument, and I like how poorly you make yours, so no deal.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Extreme view? Hah. Green is hardly extreme. In fact, you already have a habit of eating crow so what excitement would that be to make you eat more? What's funny is you call my views extreme, dismiss the logic behind them, then tout your own as some hockey expert analysis' oh wait, where have I heard that before. ******* hypocrite.

Your views are extreme.

I haven't seen anyone; fan, analyst, coach, or whoever, pick Green as the frontrunner for the Norris. Why? Because it isn't true. His offensive ability will bring him high up in voting, but the fact he is an aferthought on the PK, has a good +/- while not playing against other team's top lines, and does not have even close to the same abilty on defense as Lidstrom and Chara will keep him from being the frontrunner this year.

That is the bottom line.

[Guest Shoreline]

Your views are extreme.

I haven't seen anyone; fan, analyst, coach, or whoever, pick Green as the frontrunner for the Norris.

If you haven't seen anyone prop him as a contender, or even a top one, your head is in the sand like Drake's:

CNN SI

NHL.com

"The way he's playing defensively this year and the way he's been cleaning up his own zone, I think he definitely should be in the running for a Norris Trophy," fellow defenseman Shaone Morrisonn told NHL.com. "I know there are a lot of great defensemen out there this year, but I think if Mike continues to play the way he's been, he'll finish among the top five in the League."

Actually, Green could do even better than top five if healthy. After leading all defensemen with a career-high 18 goals last season when he finished seventh in the voting for the Norris Trophy as the League's finest defenseman, Green is on pace to score more than 25 this campaign.

"He's one of our top defensemen and he's also an offensive threat each time he's on the ice," Capitals defenseman John Erskine said. "He can get the puck out in tough situations, skate it out and make the tough plays."

Edmonton Journal

I can keep going. Maybe the truth of the matter is none of you actually watch the Caps nor Mike Green hence don't know how talented he actually is.

I fully look forward to a response that suggests all of these have no idea what they're talking about.

Anyways, looks like my views are spot on with analysis that actually pays attention to Green. Extreme my ass.

Edited March 28, 2009 by Shoreline

[Doc Holiday 0]

Shoreline, are you aware of what a strawman is?

Because that entire list of quotes was to go after a point I never made.

Green will most likely be a finalist. But to say it is his to lose is extreme. None of those articles agreed with you on that point.