uncle ovipositor

I'm pretty sure the Wings will stay in the NHL if they lose game 4. Unless you mean the shame will drive them to the minors.

Kinda looks like Niemi's already in the net and Franzen's already been knocked down. Am I missing something? The wrap-around was before that. Of course the puck is in there because Niemi'd already been pushed in.

As a Sharks fan, I completely endorse these line changes. Does anyone here honestly think that the Wings need to make some big line change to beat the Sharks? I mean, I can see distributing the talent across 3 lines in a pinch I guess, but for now keeping the top line together seems like it's going to yield better results. I mean, the D for the Wings is decent, and while I think the 2nd and 3rd lines for the Sharks have an advantage, the Wings' D can handle their own end okay once they calm down and shake off the rust. But top line against top line I think the odds favor Detroit. If these are going to be 1 goal games, that's enough of a difference. Dats and Z really can win this series - at least potentially. Did I mention I'm a Sharks fan? Yeah? Look: there aren't going to be any easy wins in this series, and whichever team takes it is going to lose one or two. Maybe even 3. I'm not saying that was a great game by the Wings, but it wasn't an embarrassment - they were in it all the way through. Even if the Wings spotted the Sharks a game, this is still a series, and the Wings have every chance to make it out.

The Pacific was one game away from having all 5 in the playoffs. Instead it was merely 4. And I think this says absolutely nothing about anything. I'm going to guess that the Wings lose this one. 9 days off is a long, long time, and I'm sorry but no amount of practice can put you on form with that kind of break. But after that? Anybody's series. Both teams match up well, both teams want it. Even though I think the Wings are going to spot the Sharks a game I still think they have just as much chance to take the series.

That game wasn't great, but the game against the Sharks was excellent for 60 minutes. Yes, the Wings lost, but it could easily have gone either way. No shame in that. I can understand this team being bored. They've worked their way into a playoff spot atop their conference, they know the system, and they know that these games don't really matter. They go through this almost every year. It's about the playoffs for this team, not the regular season, and I'd have a hard time getting excited about facing an uninteresting team, too. Unless the game promises something out of the ordinary, I don't see that changing. There will be more dull games than good ones into April, which makes it a boring time to be a Wings fan but whatever. There are a ton of other good teams in the west right now who are playing exciting games because they need to - if you want to see an exciting game, go watch one of those. Otherwise, chill out and wait for April. Franzen reminds me a lot of Heatley, in good and bad ways. When he's scoring you love him, when he isn't it's hard to know why he gets minutes. Both are also feast or famine. But Franzen's also having a better year than Heatley, and, like Stuart, is dependable in the playoffs. I know which one I would rather have on my team.

The Sharks haven't gotten going yet this season, and are pretty banged up (4 or 5 call-ups in the line-up tonight, 3 of whom are on D). The Wings have been lights out all season and don't look like they've hit their stride yet. These are usually the games I look forward to in the regular season, but tonight probably won't be the most exciting hockey going. Odds are heavily on the Wings and I don't know if the Sharks will even be able to make a game out of it. Which sucks - I'd much rather watch an exciting hockey game than a blowout any day of the week.

There was a big hit on Thornton earlier in the game that was pretty monsterous, too. Great game. I would have preferred that the Sharks won, but I have no complaints - that was great hockey.

So, your problem with it is that it was impolite? Heaven forfend! It's a physical sport and if players can't be bothered to look in front of them then they're going to get hit. It's not just that he should have been looking, it's that his goalie should have been banging out the final 5 seconds before Thornton came out of the box and his D man shouldn't have fed him a suicide pass. You seem to agree with that. How do you hold Thornton responsible if Perron did none of the basics of protecting himself? Perron was on his way through the neutral zone and Thornton's job is to stop him, but you seem to think he should have just gotten out of his way. If Perron had his head up, he would have taken a hit but been okay. As it stands, he missed a single shift.

I pretty much agree with you, but one minor aside: At that price I would take Nash, Staal, or Lecavalier in a heart beat over Kovalchuk.

Bruising backliner?!? Dude made one big hit in his career at Buffalo. He's supposed to be a good guy to jump up in the play, which he's reasonable at, but now he's a bruising backliner?

Greiss+Niemi+Nitty is still cheaper than Nabby. And their cumulative 5-hole is still smaller. I'm still not sure about Niemi, and I think Greiss is ready to be put to the test more seriously this year, so I'm not so crazy about this move. But it's entirely possible it will turn out well for the Sharks - Niemi could prove himself to be solid. edit to add: their real problem for this coming season is the blue line. Demers is going to play more and is getting better, but he's no replacement for Blake. I think the Sharks D was good-not-great last season, and it's gotten worse not better this season. I don't know if any of these goalies can be counted on to cover that gap.

Campbell's contract is fine, though, right? Well then carry on. Just so long as that millstone stays tied around the Hawk's neck I'm fine with whatever they want to do. They better not touch that one either!

I'm not sure I get the whole "reclaiming former glory" angle. Last season wasn't exactly a bust, injuries or not. And the 2 or 3 seasons before that were pretty good, too. Not like they're just recovering from some 49-year lull...

Maybe. While these guys are indeed professionals, they're professionals in a multi-million dollar business who get rewarded based on winning. And if some team (Anaheim, the Leafs, the Habs, Dallas, Nashville) was told, "Yeah, we missed that call, and as far as you're concerned it ended your season, but we're not going to do anything about it because mistakes happen," I don't think that would make many people fans. Even if it is true. I like the standard that the rules exist as called on the ice, and while some things may be reviewed based on the fallibility of the refs, their limitations are an acknowledged and accepted influence on the outcome of the game. While you think everyone may "know that refs make mistakes and miss calls," this thread suggests otherwise. Some fans really don't like that standard. But I do agree that the "our refs are infallible" stance is ridiculous. I don't pay much attention to Campbell or Bettman, but if that's what they're saying it's clearly stupid.

Here's where we differ: you think the refs are either biased against the Wings or idiots, and all that needs to be done to remove bad or missed calls is to replace the refs. I disagree. I think the basic reality is that reffing a hockey game is hard, and it's inevitable that a portion of calls or going to be missed. Sometimes it will be a lot, sometimes it will be a few, but there will always be some. Just as there will be weird bounces and deflections. Sometimes bad things happen. It's an imperfect world. That doesn't mean there is a plot against your team.

Nice post. I've reffed a lot of soccer and a little hockey. Neither one is easy, but hockey is really hard. It's surprising that more doesn't get missed. Bettman's in the unfortunate position of being Bettman not being able to take sides against the authorities in games because if he says "mistakes happen", then teams are going to expect some recompense for calls that went against them unfairly. The game exists as it is called on the ice. How the ref sees it and the mistakes he makes are as much of a factor as when the puck bounces off of the linesman. It happens. Maybe the compromise for Bettman would be to say that bad calls will happen, but the league won't discuss them, but everyone's going to dislike that as much as anything else he says. I often watch games with the sound off. You can still tell the narrative that the broadcasters are seeing/telling by which clips get replayed, but for the most part you don't hear the complaints (or lack thereof) about calls on the ice. It changes your perspective to see a game that way.

The Sharks have been on the other end of that quite a bit, and I don't cry bloody murder over it. I accept it as part of the game. You don't know me, and probably won't take me at my word, but it is what it is. I have seen the Wings win games where the officiating was worse and favored them substantially, but I don't complain about it. I've seen games where the Sharks were on the wrong end of every call and bounce. And at the end of the day, it was a loss. We disagree that this whole series was handed to the Wings by the refs. I think there were a lot of bad calls, but that it went both ways. You don't. That was a jerky post, and I came back to delete it myself, but the mods had already taken care of it. They did the right thing. However, my other comment in that thread still stands: pick a game and I'll put together a video that makes the Wings look like the worst cheaters ever to play. Not because they are (they're about the same as any other team), but because it's very easy to do. Yer vid is 2 minutes long, and half of it is reaction shots. You don't think I can find 2 minutes of bad hockey in a 2.5 hour game? Pick your game. I'll get to it after the SCF is over and post it here. The difference is, I won't maintain that it proves anything, other than the fact that I can edit video.

I completely agree about all goals being reviewable, but not all plays. What happens when there's a penalty called, a couple minutes go by while they review it (to do it fairly will take multiple looks, as with reviewing goals), then decide it wasn't actually a penalty? Do they give the puck back to the person who had it and let them go back at it? Going to a face-off seems unfair when one team had possession of the puck. And how about when the refs miss one? If someone else is reviewing it in the booth or wherever, do they roll the clock back to when the penalty happened even though the play has gone on? And what about all of those borderline calls? Obviously there are calls that could go either way and there's a case to be made on either side. Do we hold a little court? Do all of the refs get a vote (I'm assuming there is a video review person in your scenario)? Or do they send it to Ottawa? I don't think there is a perfect system, and of the flawed options I'm okay with the one we have.

Pick any game from any series and I can put together a much better 2-minute clip of Wings diving and crying like babies. Not because the Wings are crooked or babies but because I am good at editing clips together. I'm sorry that you feel like the series was stolen from you buy the refs, but I disagree. Your evidence doesn't dissuade me, and it is entirely one-sided.

This team doesn't need much retooling, it just needs a couple of pieces added. And if history is any indicator, they'll all be available for next to nothing or already in the system. Say what you like about other teams mimicking the puck possession style of play, but nobody can touch the Wings at finding talent that every other team has missed for cheap.

1. The NHL benefits from the Wings winning and going deep. The Wings sell significantly more merch than any other franchise, and they get a cut of it. I don't see any motive for the entire NHL as an organization to be trying to undermine the Wings, and have yet to see a real argument to convince me otherwise. The Maple Leafs' fans do this exact same kind of conspiratorial whining, and while they're not exactly the same caliber as the Wings are consistently, the tone of complaining is pretty much the same. 2. The first goal of game 5, Franzen pulled the stick out of Thornton's hand, effectively removing him from play, and the Wings scored. Malhotra was tripped on his break away. Pavelski was cross-checked in the back while going for a line change because Bert knew the refs weren't looking. In the last 2 minutes, Franzen cross-checked Nichol in the face after the whistle blew. No call. Then, 30 seconds later, there's the Boyle holding call, which could go either way, but seemed to go against the let 'em play hockey that was going on at the tail end of the game. So let's not pretend that the Wings were the clear and unbiased victims of the refs. I know that that was not the spirit in which this thread was started, and I would suggest keeping it that way. 3. I agree that Bert gets more calls than he deserves, but he's earned a rep. He knows this, too. Games should be called individually, based on the rules, to the best of the ref's ability and not based on who is out on the ice. However, the refs don't have slo-mo instant replay or multiple camera angles or review time. This is a fact of the game. As such, there's going to be a bias against certain players and they're going to be watched. The thing is, every team has those guys, and Bert gets watched the same as, say, Clowe, and he took a lot of stupid penalties in this series. That doesn't mean that he "deserves" the holding call he got in game 5, but it does mean he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. If Bert isn't willing to take that risk for his team, he has to police himself. Others have done it, he could, too. 4. Refs are fallible, and the rules exist as they're called on the ice and not in some absolute sense. I understand that the Wings lost and that was a factor as far as many here are concerned, but consider the alternatives: review every play, double the number of refs on the ice, make every call reviewable, allow games to be rolled back for missed penalties... I'd love to hear suggestions that aren't going to ankle the game. About the only alternative people who complain about the reffing have is "just hire people who aren't idiots." I'm very sure that the refs in the NHL aren't idiots, and that you aren't going to improve the reffing by getting new people in. It's a hard game to call, especially when everyone on the ice is gaming the system as much as they think they can get away with. The only way to change that would require significantly altering the game, which would be much, much worse. The puck is going to deflect unfavorably off of the linesmen, calls are going to be missed, others called wrong, others made up based on what the ref thinks happened rather than what he saw. It sucks, but the alternatives are worse.

3 1-goal games isn't domination, and while there's a chance that the Sharks will close it out tonight, I would be surprised. Detroit's too good not to take at least 1 in the series, hopefully 2. See, I tried to get plane tickets to come see the game but couldn't get anything I could afford. I've never seen a game at the Joe, and it seems like one of those things that any hockey fan should do. If the Wings win the next 2, I still have a chance.

That's absolutely brilliant.

Other teams have forums, but there aren't other forums like this. You have your share of idiots, of course, but they don't tend to stick around very long and they are well outnumbered by people who are extremely knowledgeable about hockey. It's not just about going on the other team's boards (why bother in the series with the Avs), it's about coming here. Every year as the season goes on, I find myself spending more time lurking (and occasionally posting) here because it's a lot more rewarding. Plus it's rare that people on this board whip out the ol' If you're a Sharks fan, what the hell are you doing here?!? Go back to your own damn board! line. Besides, I like hockey first and foremost, and the Wings deliver good hockey dependably. Anybody who appreciates the sport has to like the Wings, even if you want them to lose.

I'll be surprised if the Wings don't win tonight. They're too good to go down 3-0, and they're at home. Plus it's my birthday, and the Sharks like to make sure I stay humble in my view of the world, which they do by falling apart whenever they play at the Joe. It'll be their little present to me.