Shaman

I would like a guy like Steve Downie on the team, not an enforcer. I disagree that he would provide 90% of the offense as do most who have posted outside of you, Bruise and Newfy. He is an enforcer, and is not a 20 point guy, as was pointed out before, he played with Steve Downie. I am not anti-fighting, I am anti enforcer, as I keep saying its a dying archetype in the NHL with the new rules (the instigator and the rules that open up play). PS Fighting is fun to watch, but an enforcer is no longer a realistic way to fill this want in a team.

I like Miller, no rational reason, but I admit that .

Thank you Konnan, I wish these guys would just admit they want an enforcer and be done with it, instead of bending facts to make the player they want look better. Steve Downie would be a dream for the wings, not going to happen but hes the kind of player I would love the wings to sign. Especially at a 1.85 cap hit. Welcome to the cap world of 2005 on. Sorry, but if I had to choose on its going to be the beating them on the score board and with the cap it seems you have to make this choice.

Again we see why you want him on the team, you wouldn't care if he put up 5 points so long as he would drop the gloves, and in the process you would drop a player who is a very good PKer and a guy who has shown he can play at a 20 point pace (Miller had he played 82 games would have had 23 points both of the last two seasons)and is 3 years younger. I take track record over forum member's projections.

So personal attacks, I have never attacked you and your hockey knowledge, I may not like your personal views on who should and should not be on the wings, but I never insulted you. Obviously you don't have a point you can defend with evidence (IE 20 pts from Konopka) but only conjuncture based upon no evidence. I am using logical reasoning that Since Konopka is 30 years old, has not shown any real offensive upside (no matter his line mates)to say the chances of him getting 20 pts is low. I have backed this up with the idea that if GMs saw this potential he would have been on a different team, or been offered more money. Ice time may be a consideration, but playing for a contender is also one. Also lets not say the last two seasons how much of his TENURE on the Islanders has he played with Comeau? This would be a much less skewed way to calculate this. Also please include your numbers.

I corrected my mistake before you made your comment. But again, you're being worse than the Flip slappies.

Nevermind none of those three other than Martin played more than 40 games. Come on, 20 is a pipe dream, I would say 15 would be realistic.

:clap: :clap: :clap: Blake Cameau 77 24 22 46 Seems he out scored Helm, Eaves, Miller and Draper, so I would say hes a better line mate than they are for offensive production. But what do I know, I mean who could tell 46>32. It seems that his line mates had a few more than 35 points, but again why let facts get in the way of wanting an enforcer?

Because its his line mates that cause him to suck, but if you say that about Hudler, obviously thats not true. This is a poor argument, if he had offensive ability why would he not show it? why would any coach put him on a line that wouldn't utilize his obvious offensive prowess?

Between Gillies and Haley they played 39 and 25 games respectively, so its not like he spent the whole season with them, so thats a non point. But if any team thought he had 20 point potential with his other skills they would have signed him, but he played for one of the worst teams in the NHL with s***ty linemates that seems to be a vote of no confidence for his ability to produce offensively.

Sorry 75,000 over minimum.

If he had 20 point potential with his other skills (PK, Faceoffs and fighting) he wouldnt be playing for the Islanders for league min. Sorry.

Thats right folks a guy who in almost 200 games scored 22 points will somehow score 20 points in 82, I don't think he could score 20 on Crosby's wing.

Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Filpulla? St Louis? Small skilled forwards are worthless, hell Crosby is under 6 foot he must be worthless too.

No, hes not, on the wings he wouldn't be on the same level as most of the Wings' forwards defensively, he would be dead last offensively, hes a good faceoff man, but when compared to the ability of the Wings centers to play defense its not going to win him a spot in the middle. So what does he bring that the wings don't have? Fighting? thats about it. So again he doesn't bring a skill set the wings need outside of fighting.

I never said I didn't like fighting, I just don't like having a player whose main skill set is fighting. I am a fan of a player who brings a real NHL skill set to a team but also stands up for themselves and others. I am saying that the one thats name is being thrown around is not a player I would like on the wings given the number of bottom six players the wings already have on their big team/in their system. Nice strawman though.

Hes not better than the following: Draper, Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Emmerton, Muršak, Hudler, (and if Zetterberg and Dats are separated) Filpulla or Cleary (if Holland addresses the need for a second line winger the wings need badly) and is in my mind a wash with Miller. All these players I mentioned are or could be the Wings bottom 6 next season, 8-9 players that are competing for 6 spots, and I do believe 4 of them play center. So again it doesn't just come down to is he better than Miller, its is he better than 4 of these players, and he is not. Honestly, ask yourself, if he didn't fight would you ever consider him for the wings? if the answer is no, than obviously this is about fighting, if its yes, well, good luck with NHL 11.

Sorry, Tatar and McCollum aren't NHL ready, and Konopka would be a 13th forward at best.

20+ GMs have different team philosophies compared to Detroit which values skill and speed in all four lines, it seems Holland agrees with my view because he doesn't seem to be going out of his way to pick up an enforcer. Now again if its a guy who is willing to defend himself and fight thats fine by me, but a goon on skates more and more are going the way of the Dodo, and I for one am happy about that. Grit doesn't win playoff games, look at the stats in the San Jose series, the wings out hit them every game I believe but because of them not scoring they lost. So if you want to see a fighter on skates beat the hell out of other people thats great, but if you expect the wings to carry one of them, I wouldn't hold my breath.

I think Schneider got traded to Phoenix after that and now serves some role in the NHL.

There is no evidence of any of this, hes played nearly 200 games, if he had any scoring touch it would have manifested by now. What intangibles does he bring? He only has one skill that no wing is willing to use and thats the want to fight, and thats not a needed skill set in the 2011 NHL. Beyond that with Emmerton coming up and the wings already being deep at bottom 6 forward I just don't see where he fits, he doesn't realistically play 10 minutes a game because he sits almost half that in the box, and with Miller being a 13th forward I don't see who besides Miller you would take out to put this guy in so he can play 82 games.

At worst a guy like Hossa on the Wings would give Z and Dats a bit more room and the other team a bit more to worry about. Not saying I want him back, but a 40 goal scorer would be awesome.

Defending teammates? really? I would argue most of is box time was from trying to prove that his job is worth a line up spot. I don't blame him, but I watched the Islanders and the Lightning over the last couple years (not extensively but enough to be familiar with them) and its not like ever other game someone was taking a blatant run at their skilled players. It happens, thats true, but I can count on one hand how many times I've seen a real run taken on a player in the last couple years when watching the wings. Sure there is scrums and extra given after whistles, but, it seems we give it as good as we take it for the most part. Adding a 4th liner that only brings fighting ability to the team won't happen, the Wings philosophy is to role four lines and how deep the wings already are at 13th forward . Again if you want a player who can fight, the 6th/7th Dman will be where that spot will be filled on the wings.

Well Drew Miller put up almost as many points in 66 as Konopka has in 195, so I would say that right there would put him as more valuable, he kills PKs, he goes to the dirty areas, and best yet, he doesn't average over 3.5 (per ten mins of ice time) minutes in the penalty box per game. Konopka isn't particularly defensively sound (not compared to your average Detroit center), at least not from what I have seen from his stats and the games Ive seen him in. If you think a guy who spends over 1/3 of his ice time per game in the box is a good addition to a team thats your right, I personally think its a poor idea. As I keep saying if we can get a player that can add grit and actual scoring talent to our team I would be in favor, but no warm bodies who are only on a team because they can fight. The best option for any grit would come on the blue line as a 6th/7th defenseman, with the high number of offensively sound D men Detroit has adding some girt on the back end wouldn't hurt.

I think that since this is a free forum for all to post their opinions as they please that people who think adding a goon like Konopka (who has 22 points in 195 games) would not help the wings can have their say. My opinion is that a multifaceted player that adds more than grit(IE fighting) would be the best option.